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The Myths spread on site by some of our members

Forum » Rugby » The Myths spread on site by some of our members

Mar 11, 2019, 09:11

I an often enough amazed b what members  write on site claiming what they said are facts.   Sometimes these myths are repeated on site continuously on site as gospel,   Even though other members  has repeatedly tried to correct the situation the myths persisted.in being posted,


I think it is always wise to get rid of obvious nonsense from site and a typical example pf such myths off site as it is a waste of space and time and constantly denied and rectified on site,     For convenience  sake I am quoting a recent posting  So lets start and deal with one of the  most persistent and the most ridiculous statements ever on site:- 


"Really? Nobody placed importance on playing in the oppositions half? Nobody used patterns to play from the middle of the field? Careful now, because this was a long time feature of the All Black game. The plays and shapes, I can see them in every team during the Meyer era and in present time. Heck, we see in Rasse's Boks. You are making a complete fool of yourself Mike. 

How did the ELVs affect rugby? The increased space meant attacking teams immediately began exploiting direct carries off 8 from scrums. Spies gave us guaranteed front foot ball right up the seam every time. This eliminated many of the more complex backrow moves we used to see."


In most of the threads dealing with the Springboks under Meyer used a flatter backline attack proves and that is a key element leading to the above statement,   So what is the real situation in fact is one has to deal with a number of issues  of which the flat attack  myth is the moist important,    The reasons why this myth is numerous and beyond any shadow of doubt:-

Meyer's own comments on use of the Springboks backline-

What did the classical backline play of Meyer comprises of:-

*    The  use of kicking by either the scrummies or flyhalfs as a key element of the Meyer game plan; and

*    The use of the no 12 center for crashballing.  

The problem was twofold, namely -

*   instead of being strategic and effective, the overwhelming number of kicks were aimless and inaccurate, meaning that the kicks represented handover of the ball possession to the opposition - th All blacks were very efficient in using the kicks for counter-attack purposes..

*   the crashballing was  poorly executed and often resulted  in loss of territory and or possession.  

When Meyer was asked about the above he indicated clearly that THE SPRINGBK BACKLINE PLAYERS DIO NOT HAVE THE BALL SKILLS TO PLAY A BALL IN HAND GAME.   

That statement was confirmed when on looks at his backline selections and the applications of the so-called game plan in the WC in 2015.    In the WC Meyer apparently planned a similar technique used by him as coach of the Bulls,, but more about that later on.

Effectively Meyer himself denied the existence of aby flat backline play usage and if it did happen it must have been against his game plan and merely by accident.

The Morne Steyn Scenario

Fact is that Morne Steyn's whole reputation was built not on backline attacking play - but on his goal kicking and out-of-hand kicking story - the former was remarkedly accurate - the latter the  exact opposite.

However, the main issue was that elements of Morne's lay has to be analyzed since he  was the flyhalf in half of the tests under Meyer - the other half was shared between Goosen, Pollard and Lambie.   

So why was flat backline attacks not possible with Morne at flyhalf:-

*    One of the key elements always observed was his standing too deep in the pocket to allow for backline attacks or neutralized such attacks in advance - the other backline player had to form up outside of Morne  in the line-up;

*    Morne virtually never attacked the gain line in tests - if it did happen  one woiuld count the cases on the finger of one hand  in tests played from 2012 to 2014.

Because of the latter issue the situation developed that defenders ignored  him from a defensie perspective  and went for a potential recipient of balls so as to cut the play down.   Flat attacks were accordingly not possible at all - since ball recipients was caught before the players could reach the gain line. 

Be it as it may Morne was so poor in the 2012 tests that Meyer dropped him from the starting line up of the Springboks team after the Dunedin fiasco in 2012.   Morne by then was a disaster  in a number of tests.

In 2013 Meyer only used Morne in tests - but the latter went down badly in  2014 against the Welsh and Meyer dropped him in the Argentine tests in the RC.   However, for some reason or another Pollard lost favour in those two tests and Meyer went back to Morne for the Perth test in 2014.   In that test Morne was a total disaster and Meyer never used him again as starting flyhalf in the rest of the period he coached the Springboks. 

The Pollartd scenario   

Before dealing with this issue one has to go back to the situation when Steyn failed badly n 2012.     Meyer replaced him with Goosen  - who had a brilliant game in the Aussie home test in 2012 and got injured very early in the succeeding AB test.    If ever there was a test where there was a variation in the Springbok play it was that  test.    However, that has had more o do ith change in the abilities of a new set of backline players used,  

Now back to the Pollard situation of 2014.   After another spectacular failure by Morne in the Wales tests in June 2014 - Pollard came on the scene against the Scots  in June  2014 he was selected as Springbok flyhalf for the Argentina tests and what was surprising that he was very average and played a Morne Steyn style game  in those two tests with minimal success,   It was clear that Pollard did not fit into what Meyer expected from him and Meyer went abck to Steyn in the away tests against the AB's and th3 Aussies, with disastrous consequences,

So back to Pollard against the AB's - the only test the Springboks one under Meyer.   Before the test Hansen said something very important - they know what to expect from Morne but they did not know what to expect from Pollard.    It was really true words spoken sincerely. Pollard really did something that Morne near to never  did - he attacked the gain line twice and scored two tries against the AB's.  The Pollard hroism did not really effect the backline per se,

Everybody felt that the flyhalf issue was resolved and hoped for a better Springboks backline but it did not happen as expected,   After playing in two of the EOYT tests Pollard was  dropped from the starting line-up and replaced by Lambie.  Th reason was clear for observers - Pollard did no fit into the backline plan of Meyer  he was not able to adjust his natural talent to what Meyer expected from, him.

Pollard was used by Meyer in the RC tests - but then went back to Lambie in the Japan disaster in the WC.   He as not very prominent in any of the WC games since the Meyer game plan uised in that series did not allow for use of the backline for attacking purposes.    Although som people denied it,  if you take the number of balls passed by the sccrummies - mainly Du Preez and compare  the number of balls handled by the flyhalf - it was clear that  more or less 80% balls passed by the scrummie DID NOT GO TO THE FLYHALF.      The overwhelming number of passes went back to the forwards and the most identified recipient was in fact Burger who probably got near to 50% of the balls passed by the scrummie to platyrs other than th flyhalfs.   I often said that Burger was the stand-in  flyhalf in the WC - mostly in jest - but there was serious justification for that jest.

What was clear was that Pollard other than kicking played a minimal role in backline play in all tests he played in after the AB test in Johannesburg in 2014,   He was not a shadow  of the player used to be and what he is at present.   What was clear is that he did not it in with the Meyer game plan for backline play - if indeed there was one.

Lambie also developed into a much less effective player he used to be as time went on.   A very brave player - he did attack the gain line - but he was injury prone and in the end suffered  from concussion.   

The Springbok squad for the 2015 World Cup in 2015

The  story must go back to what happened in 2013 - when the Cheetahs was the best all-round ball-in-hand SA team in Super Rugby.   After Kirshner got injured Mayor called up Le Roux for the Springbok team.   However although brilliant at times Le Roux mneeded support forom other backline players which was not forthcoming.   By 2015 Le Roux wa sout of favour - even still being in the squad in the WC.   He did play in the WC tests after the Japan fiasco where Kirchner was the preferred full back,  The result was that Le Roux vanished from SA teams in 2016 and 2017

Now back to the Squad selection in 2015 for the WC.   The most effective SA team in  Super Rugby - most effective too in backline play - had one distinction.   Meyer diod not pick a single Lions player for the World Cup squad 

The latest quote about the 2015 Wallaby RC test

This was the first test in which Pollard, De Allende and Kriel played together as a backline combination. and there were indeed  some positive back line play and the went ona crusade against De Allende and Kriel in particular lasting  to his year.   However, after that game the improvement in backline paly vanished from sight again. 

SUMMARY

If the above does not clear the air and prove the flat attacking backline story as a myth  othing else will.   I hope we will not have to put up with a number of wild statements like the above in future..       

     

Mar 11, 2019, 12:23

"I think it is always wise to get rid of obvious nonsense from site and a typical example pf such myths off site as it is a waste of space and time and constantly denied and rectified on site"

Classic Lügnerin. Beaten from pilar to post. What next? Begin a purge? I wonder how the site owner would feel about that. You can't win a debate so you want to remove people.

As for the nonsense you've posted? It's the same repetitive and innane nonsense that's been debunked numerous times for the past eight months. 

This thread is nothing more than the last flicker of life in your worn crusade against the same players and members. It's embarrassing. 

Mar 11, 2019, 12:36

Too stupid the realize facts and too stupid to realize what you spouts on site is  fairy tales based on zero evidence,

It is no campaign against certain player or coaches - it is a factual situation as to failure of backline play under Meyer.      

Mar 11, 2019, 13:03

Morne Steyns transfer to PSG was a great one.:D:D:D

Mar 11, 2019, 13:14

Wasps

If you have nothing but personal BS you can save people from reading your useless posts. 

Mar 11, 2019, 13:22

  1. Morné against Krasny Yar
  2. Morné dropped from 2007 WC squad by Jake
  3. The two Du Preez missed tackles leading to tries in 2004's England test that never were that wasn't in 2005
  4. Nonu's run over Goosen that apparently was Morné 
  5. Goosen's ruck fringe malfunction that apparently didn't happen 
  6. Morné being run at all day at Ellis Park in 2013, yet didn't happen
  7. The Willemse intercept last year that didn't happen in the second Puma test that he didn't play in
  8. The Louw turnovers that supposedly didn't happen
  9. The Steph fringe defence misses that supposedly didn't happen. Then the video which is "total BS" because it "made it look like misses" - I must have been the cameraman for SuperSport
  10. Mostert negating every maul, debunked in hilarious fashion
  11. The numerous other games that Morné lost without playing a single second of 
  12. Damian never had a single defensive lapse in 2015's Wallaby test, it was all Pollard's fault
  13. Schalk played fly half throughout the 2015 WC. "Negating" back play" yet he distributed at least 50% more than Steph who occupies a similar role
  14. The Andrè who lost the test we won in Brisbane South Africa. Anyone who disagrees is a "dofdoos" 
Lügnerin's Coaching 101

  1. In order to advance the ball don't be a stupid dofdoos running around the place. You will get into gaps and then how is your support going to stop turnovers. Don't get isolated. 
  2. Crashballing is another stupid dofdoos tactic that can be problematic with regards to getting the ball to the outside backs. Once you stop doffdoosing the ball like a dinosaur you need to get over the gain line, but that's easy because you will be crabbing to gas the drift on the outside. 
  3. Offloading is very important. You got to not be a doffdoos doosdoffing around when you totally aren't am aren't taking contact with crashdoos tactics. It requires that you don't go down in the tackle that didn't happen because you won't be creating opportunities for the support you are running towards. This is called the exhaust pattern, because you are exhausting yourself running round in perpetually open space. 
  4. Use "standard defence" like New Zealand
  5. Don't forget to "run from all angles"
I could add several dozen more to the list. Mike adds more take tales by the day. He sounds utterly insane. 

Mar 11, 2019, 13:46


Listen dofdoos

Who made the claims you are writing about above.

2 is utter BS invented by you, 3  I corrected 20 times the date of the match and what happened was not the BS you described by you,    Du Preez was nowhere when a ball came out of a  breakdown situation and the English got the ball and scored. 4  When did that run over by Nonu happened happened?   I criticized Morne for him missing 7 kicks at goal at Dunedin - what ahd that to do with Goosen?  5  Is absolute BS I know nothing about. 6  Is an outright lie - I said that Morne missed 4 tackles in that match 2 of which directly preceded AB tries,  I never said rthey ran espoeciakky at Morne.  7  I admitted that I looked at the wrong test and apologized for my mistake. * said that Louw did make the turnovers.   8   Is another misrepresent lie - it would ehlp if the liar can be specific of when it happened. 0  Mostert 's maul deficiencies were proved and was not debunked by your lies - especially when ti came out you did not know what a rolling maul is. 11  Another total vague lie I am frankly not implicating Morne in any losses bar those eh lsost for the Springbopks which ultimately let to his dropping from the Springbok squad.12  Is a total lie to e expected from you - Pakie claimed  falsely that De Allende made 12 tackles and missed 8 - he in fact got caught out and the figures were 15 tackles and 6 missed and my comment was that the missed tackles were too high and unacceptable.  The lie is that I blamed Pollard for the missed  tackles.   13  Was a total misrepresentation what I said and a lie to boot.  

List6en dim doos - I do apologize and corrected what I wrote,  I do not dream up BS like flat backline attacks without any proof whatsoever.   

Aside from that I do not lie about what other people wrote and I do not lie about what I rote - I leave lies entirely to the clueless dofdoos - Silly Billy. 

 I am not interested in the other idiocy you spread about above.  You are totally clueless and prejudiced when it comes to rugby and write the weirdest BS on site trying to pretend you are an expert.    What you write is things you dream up from what you read in coaching manuals - when it comes to what actually happened there is no sign of it in games and you claimed depending on who is involved it actually happened.      .

You are indeed a total rugby imbecile.  .      

Mar 11, 2019, 13:49

"Aside from that I do not lie about what other people wrote" 

Really? I rated Morné the best 10 of all time? I "hate" Folau and said he was the worst 15 in world rugby? 

You should never have started this thread. It only opened a can of worms for you. 

Mar 11, 2019, 13:59

Sheesh Michael

For someone who has professed how many times on here to not start, or at least stop with all this personal abuse to other posters, you have certainly gone out of your way to start threads to do the exact same thing you have promised to no longer do.

Your attempts or promises never last long...do they.... a few recent examples.....

- The Myths spread on site by some of our members

- My desperate efforts to educate the Village Idiots on site are rarely successful

- Some members went missing iro of the Sri Lanka test


Mar 11, 2019, 14:00

Pakie claimed  falsely that De Allende made 12 tackles and missed 8 - he in fact got caught out and the figures were 15 tackles and 6 missed

Nope, I did not get caught out in anything and I even qualified that I skimmed through the game and may have missed some tackles. I never claimed 8 missed tackles, but 7. Also, the context for my review of the tackles was you claiming that the amount of tackles De Allende had to make was a mathematical impossibility.

Here's the thread, go refresh your memory about the masses of bullshit you dished up that day.

Mar 11, 2019, 14:01

Listen dofdoos - yopui did participate in Mozart trying to elevate Morne to be comparable to Carter and supported the idiocy all out.  Your fulminations against Folau after I wrote he is the best player under high balls in the world betrayed you as the idiot who once said Kirchner is a better player than Folau.   

I started this threads to plead with you not to write idiotic statements on site and especially not the flat attack backline under Meyer - clearly showing up that it never happened and that is th whole story involved.  

All the above BS by you has not included a word about where I was wrong in what I wrote above - it is a case of pollution to take away attention from what I wrote,   Fact is the above is a clea illustration that your are a fraud and liar when it comes to rugby issues.        

Mar 11, 2019, 16:44

Mike is a conflict junkie....he has to get his fix every day.

Mar 11, 2019, 17:37

Pakie

I went back to your comments and  looked at the phots posted by you and saw that one of the tackles shown by you was not a missed  tackle was not a msised tackle at all.   It was clear that two players were busy tackling a player and De Allende wet in to assist in the tackle. 

You said clearly you saw 12 tackles in your survey and that you never really corrected,  Be it as it may your contribution was so badly skewed  that it was not true as claimed.  

What si interesting is that although DDE Allende clearly improved his tackling technique drastically and turns out to be miles ahead of Esterhuizen in defense the one test where I said he as not good enough  is always the reference by some of the members on site use to discredit De Allende.  Whatever happened subsequently is ignored/

Perhaps I was too harsh calling you a liar - and I apologize.   What I do not apologize for is the fact that you were biased and based your comments on a somewhat superficial survey.        

 

Mar 11, 2019, 17:53

Actually what I was doing was refuting three of your claims (two about the nature of the missed tackles and then the "mathematical impossibility") and had nothing to do with actually counting tackles. ESPN had already done that.

The final tackle on Kuridrani was a failure. DA ended up on the ground by himself while Kuridrani ended up over the tryline 2 or 3 metres behind him. That was not a completed or effective tackle. Four years later, who cares really.

Anyway, enough old threads dealing with this issue. As for the apology, you apologized in 2015 and still used this incident numerous times over the years to call me a liar. So pinch of salt and all that, but thanks anyway.

Mar 11, 2019, 18:12

I am a bit mixed up was that not a tackle supposedly whenhe ran at Jannie and De Akkende came from the side to cover up Jannie's failure, and coming from the side and Kuridrani pushed him off?    

Mar 11, 2019, 20:32

Damian was an atrocity all by himself. 

Mar 11, 2019, 21:17

Sure he was atrocious efficient dealing with Nonu and SBW.     

Mar 11, 2019, 21:23

Nonu made a fool of Damian. The only way Damian could out-do SBW is for him to have a very bad game. However, given front foot ball, he was the worst Bok on the day. That's the sad thing, give him quality ball against a passive defence and he fires blanks. Damian had an exceptionally poor 2015. As bad as 2018 was, it's better than his 2015. 

Mar 11, 2019, 21:36

Ag foeitof - still thinking that the Springboks played flat  backline rugby under Meyer?    That myth is equal to the present desperate issues to sideline the discussion stooge?    "How the hell can we believe you - you lie you bugger you lie"/   

Mar 11, 2019, 21:39

I posted the footage. I have put you in a position where you could only confess you were wrong, or lie. You chose the latter, and are being called out by more members more frequently. Even worse, your primary defence has been the mud sling. 

Mar 11, 2019, 22:36

INo I am always called out by prejudiced fools,   You however had a record on site and I only raised one topic - there are dozens of other famous rubbish you dreamed up and put on site.  I just exposed one that even Meyer denied was in fact the case,

All of those circled around Meyer as coach, Morne Steyn,  Fransie Steyn, amd whatever players you favour or dislike.   I do not even want to repeat all the junk you posted on site.  I did not expose you as badly as some other members did - so I will only expose you if you do not shut up.

By the way that Nonu early replacemnebt was typical fabrication by you.   Everybody in the game bar perhaps excluding the referee, the line judges and the TV  had to do with the replacement, except that De Allende  had zero to do with it,   Nonu missed four tackles that day - he missed the tackles on the everyone but his direct opponent,  His opponent made two line breaks - but at the time Nonu was nowhere near him.   Tell us where he was - somewhere like being a replacement hooker or playing on the wing?

Best advice is that you change your user name again and this time you hide your new identity than you did  your last one.                     

 
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