The red card and non contested scrums

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Oct 05, 2019, 19:27

Both these kill the game in terms of a contest and the game becomes boring and the outcome predictable.

While red cards are a necessity and the offender should leave the field, my call would be that the team loses a player for 10min as with a yellow but that a sub be allowed to replace the offender. As a penalty for the offence the opposition is given 7 or 10 points.

With regards to non contested scrums, my call is to have 3 non participating reserves who are to be used in the event of your starting and bench props or hookers getting injured.

Thoughts?

Oct 05, 2019, 20:16

No question a RED card kills most if not all chances of pulling off a win.

But just like the yellow card some dangerous plays need stronger action from the ref's.

Perhaps unlike the yellow card a red card should have the player removed from the game and sent to the shower and not allowed to sit on the bench and follow the game. In addition the team should have to have a 10 minute time penalty (same as a yellow card) applied and at the end of the 10 minute period a player from the bench should be allowed to replace the red carded player.

All Red carded players should at the same time be disqualified from the competition without a replacement being called up to replace the player in the squad.

He should be sent home and allowed to enjoy the abuse bestowed on him at that time from the teams supporters.

Dave your comments on the points for the opposition has some merit but as in all sport you have to earn the points/runs etc and just handing out points is rather unfair if the teams scores are close, perhaps a line out on the 5 M line or scrum (middle of the field) on the 5 M line of the red carded team. Captains choice.

Your thoughts.

Oct 05, 2019, 20:28

If the red card offence happens in the red zone of the attacking team is in the opposition 22 and a defender made as blatant an offence as was the case with Vermeulen for instance - I would suggest that a penalty try be awarded to the attacking team.  If the game is outside of the attacking team 22 and say in the half of the attacking team - give the attacking team two chances to kick at goal - if both are successful the offending team will be penalized by 6 points - if both misses suggest that the attackibng team get a goalkicker and not keep the one they have.:D:D:D   

If a red card offence is accidental like the case was with Lavanini today - I would say give the guy a pink card and let him be off for the rest of the game and let the team replace him after 15 minutes by the bench player.  In fact a 15 minute waiting period should be required in all red card cases.  

The idea of uncontested scrums is an abomination and your suggestion seems to be fine.          

Oct 05, 2019, 21:28

Some sports have a thing called a black card. In gaelic football the player getting the black card is removed from the game but the team is allowed to replace them. In American footvall there is an ejection rule but I'm not sure if they can be replaced. It would be basically the same kind of thing like the black card if it is. Sometimes you just have to hand a red and that was a very styupid dump tackle to be honest both players could have been rightfully given a red card. So maybe something in between a yellow and a red wil take the sting out of offences where there is a moment of madness from an idivindual and not the team being poorly disciplined. I'm pretty surprised something like this hasnt been tried before to be honest. If you take away the threat of a red then players will push the envelope further knowing that the team wont be suffering. Like they are on their line and probably going to concede a try soon, a tackler can just take a player out kowing he will sacrifice himself for the team by getting a black only but if the red exists you cant be so sure that the team wont be a man down. There are checks and balances and if the threat of severe punishment doesnt exist we'll see uglier things in the game.

Oct 05, 2019, 23:53

I agree with both of your suggestions Dave.....why these fans are howling with delight when the game has just been reduced to a non contest beats me.

Oct 06, 2019, 00:01

dont think the quota boys like the sound of black card... perhaps "non colour defined" card? 

re scrums... yeah joke - can easily be manipulated if scrum getting dominated you just feign injury to front row players... seen the hurricans do it in super rugby before... their scrum being destroyed o all of a sudden front row stocks were injured etc... and voila no contest at scrum time....

agree bad rule... if too dangerous then just concede the scrum to opposition for free kick or somethig..


Oct 06, 2019, 00:04

In League there is no one sent off and the offender is cited after the match where they are suspended for various weeks depending on the offence.

However I would amend that and have the offender sin binned for ten minutes then be cited after the match.

I would also like to see an Orange card which is for an offence between a yellow and a red with the offender getting 15 minutes in the bin.

Sending red card offenders off the field for the remainder of the game is ridiculous...thousands have paid alot of money to fly over stay in expensive hotels buy expensive tickets to watch their team...yes penalise the offender after a fair match where millions of viewers can enjoy the game in a fair contest.

Oct 06, 2019, 10:54

Allowing a replacement after 10 minutes has been raised as a potential solution quite often here and I also think it will be fair. Not sure about free points to the opposition though.

Oct 06, 2019, 11:15

I agree with the replacement from the bench after 10min, but I would also like to see stronger post match sanctions, including heavy fines. With especially heavey sanctions for dirty and dangerous play....all with transparent consistancy. 

Oct 06, 2019, 11:38

Something I've always enjoyed and respected about English sports fans...

"Sometimes you just have to hand a red and that was a very styupid dump tackle to be honest both players could have been rightfully given a red card."

Oct 06, 2019, 11:41

100% agree with most of the suggestions here.

Why ruin the event for fans and players. 

A win is a win. But winning on the back of a red always feels hollow. Losing because of one is just soul destroying.

Oct 06, 2019, 11:59

One certainty is that the red card offender cannot be allowed back on the field as suggested by some. He has to be replaced by a bench player.

I hear the point saying points should be earned not handed out - solution then is to deduct points from the offending side instead of handing points to the opposition for the offence

Oct 06, 2019, 16:56

Yep a 5 point red card deduction makes sense.....but it raises the prospect of negative numbers.

Oct 06, 2019, 17:02

Dave I think that is a much better plan.

Moz you are correct and what would be the case if both teams fail to score. 

Oct 06, 2019, 17:25

Would be funny losing with a negative score on the board but let’s face it that is hardly going to be a common occurrence!!

Oct 07, 2019, 10:55

I agree that the red card and uncounted scrums completely change the game into rugby league

I would agree that the offending player should feel the punishment and not the spectators or the game that would turn it into a contest. 

Although, I remember a sharks team beating the Crusaders with 13 men in an epic battle in Christchurch. 

So they do it in ice hockey where the player gets sin binned and then gets subbed after 10 minutes meaning that he won't participate in the game any further, pending sanctions from other matches

So yeah, I would allow him to be subbed after 10 minutes and send on his way to go have a cold shower

Oct 07, 2019, 20:00

It's a hot mess, alright. I just looked at the two Samoan yellow cards against Russia. Both could have, and the second one in particular should have been a red card. Don't know if the Samoan was faking in the second one but he damn near knocked himself out, it was that reckless.

Then you have the two NZ yellows - two fairly innocuous tackles, guys going down to make low tackles and then the BC diving low turns it into neck contact. So now you have two guys getting yellow who never intended to make illegal tackles, they were actually hunched down for low tackles.

How is carding contact area instead of intent helping to make the game safer? It's not. How is carding a player attempting a legal tackle that accidentally becomes illegal contact making the game safer? It's not.

The good intentions that gave birth to this new high tackle framework is backfiring big time.

Oct 07, 2019, 20:46

A red card should only be awarded when a player intends to harm another

Oct 08, 2019, 11:06

And even then he  (whoops she..they) should only be sent off for ten minutes then cited after the match.

Oct 08, 2019, 11:50

Talking about Ice Hockey...

How about, just a penalty but then the offender must fight the opposition's brawler?

Many of the great goal scorers built their records under protection. 


 
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