Update: Team Announced - SA vs England - Will the boks swing low or swing high?

Forum » Rugby » Update: Team Announced - SA vs England - Will the boks swing low or swing high?

Nov 21, 2022, 18:18

15 Willie le Roux, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Damian Willemse, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Franco Mostert, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Ox Nche.
Subs: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Marco van Staden, 20 Kwagga Smith, 21 Jaden Hendrikse, 22 Manie Libbok, 23 Canan Moodie.

So, final test of the season. Been a year of disappointment if you ask me. Dropped our number 1 ranking. 

Most of our losses, if not all came down to really poor rugby selections. Scratch team v Wales, Dweeb v All Blacks. No kicker in the Ireland Game. 

We whipped Italy but wondering if the game against Aus, drained them or did the boks finally stumble on the right backline. 

Then, England came to life in the final 15, but their 1st try wasn't a try, prop was clearly on the floor and then propelled himself over. But their attack look super sharp towards the end. 

No idea who the boks will select, I hope for Roos and Libbok but history has shown that it will be kwagga and Willemse instead. In my mind Kwagga should stay on the bench.  

Nov 21, 2022, 18:24

Oh goodness knows what will happen…..or indeed which team Eddie will put out. 

We need two new Wings and Tuilagi should also go. But, who knows what our esteemed leader will decide to do. 

Nov 21, 2022, 18:39

Awarding that England try was a joke it kind of sums up the pathetic standard of officiating we have to endure match after match

As for our team I can see it now. Willemse at 10 and Orie at 5 with Mostert at 7

If that is the case we can kiss the test goodbye before it’s even begun

Nov 21, 2022, 19:08

Beyond selection, we were way more willing to pass the ball against Italy. The Boks passed the ball 169 times to 111 by Italy….Willie passed the ball 26 times by himself.

I believe that led to much better possesssion stats and ultimately to territory. Box kicks mostly result in lost possession for very few metres.

Will we have the courage to pursue the same tactics against England? 

Nov 21, 2022, 19:10

The Boks haven't shown anything constructive on attack. If one defends passively, or gifts space, we have the speed on the outside to take full advantage. Until Italy fell apart and became fragmented, we really didn't look like scoring. Kwagga was the catalyst for that collapse. After that, the Italians seemed to give up. Kwagga is the first name that should be on the team sheet, by far our best player and most consistent performer. England have a lot of tools in the bag. If they can avoid being sucked into the Bok's lineout and maul battle, we'll struggle. That's where we have to assert ourselves and suck the life out of them. Draw penalties, send them back into the corner, pressure them. Even if they absorb a few rounds of that, it'll really have a telling affect on their pack later in the game. If we can take our opportunities, then things can open up. We cannot allow them to get their attacking game going. Once they find their rhythm, we struggle to stem the tide.

Nov 21, 2022, 19:28

I think Libbok will start. The Boks are clearly trying to improve their attack, and he slotted in well. His pole kicking is also of test standard. 

After the 2019 world cup teams have become better at beating the Bok defence so the backs need to score tries

Nov 21, 2022, 19:41

Put Kollisi @ 7 and Kwagga @ 6 with Roos @ 8....and Libbok should start....but I am a Mostert Fan so he can also start....Willemse 12 and DDA 13....Mapimpi 11 and Kurt Lee 14 and Willie 15....if the Boks manage to get Forward ascendancy, and we Start running like SAT we will win I think....if we stick to the usual  it will most probably be a grind and last Year that did not turn out well for us.

Nov 21, 2022, 19:41

Think the wee boks will struggle to get the win, hoping the wee boks play out of their skin and take it to the poms.

Nov 21, 2022, 20:18

I don’t think they’ll struggle at all. 

If we play without any physicality like we did on Saturday, they will obliterate us. 

Nov 21, 2022, 20:25

There are areas to exploit. We have a small backline with little power on the line. Depending on selections, weak defenders in the forwards. 

Nov 22, 2022, 07:24

I'll be surprized if we have a running approach vs England.

Nov 22, 2022, 08:54

Put Kollisi @ 7 and Kwagga @ 6 with Roos @ 8

Kwagga @ 6, Roos @ 7, Wiese @ 8

but yeah…Kolisi can’t be dropped for better players because the blacks will feel victimised.

Nov 22, 2022, 09:17

Yes Plum that would be better, but the Captain won't get dropped and isn't Wiese not available because he plays for European Club?

Nov 22, 2022, 14:00

Just waiting for the team announcement but this have me thinking on who we should possible select. The team I would go for. 

  1. Ox - Kitshoff
  2. Bongi - Marx
  3. Frans - Du Toit
  4. Etzebeth - Moerat (Should be Jenkins)
  5. Mostert
  6. Kolisi
  7. Kwagga
  8. Roos
  9. Hendrikse
  10. Libbok
  11. Arendse
  12. Dud
  13. Kriel
  14. Arendse
  15. Willemse
  16. Marx
  17. Kitshoff
  18. Du Toit
  19. Moerat
  20. van Staden
  21. Faf
  22. Goosen
  23. Willie
I have no clue who is still left in the Springbok squad and who can be selected. So based on the players I think we have left. 

I know Willie has been excellent, but I think the first 50 min is going to be tense, so we will just have to stay tight on our defence and keep England at bay. Play our normal game and make use of the penalties. 

As the game opens up, I'll bring on Faf and Willie, Goosen is just cover on the bench, but probably won't play him until absolutely necessary. 

I would bring Willemse up to 12 and either sub Damian or Jess, depending on how they play. 

But think having libbok, Willemse and Willie, then with Arendse and Mapimpi firing. Bring on the heavies to tire out the English pack and go forward ball. Libbok can keep the score board ticking over and hopefully get 3 or more penalties in. If we score a try early, bonus. 

Just weary of England counter punch like what they did to NZ as well as a dodgy ref call. 

Nov 22, 2022, 14:17

Knew that they would select Orie and Mostert at 5 and 7. Not a very strong pack with those two in the pack. 

Great to see Roos finally getting a start. Lets hope he can knock those poms over. 

Static midfield, so our wings will not see much of the ball. Expecting a lot of kicking by Faf and Dud

Nov 22, 2022, 15:04

Mostert playing in any team is a huge negative or the team.   e is physically deficient and his open-field defense is non-existent.   His line-out play is mostly feeble and inconsistent.    I would prefer Libbok as flyhalf and Wilemse as the no 13 center -with the ever--reliable De Allende at 12.      

As to the loosies I am not as despondent  as other members.   I would in fact support the selection of  the following :-

8     Roos

7     Kwagga            Bench - Nortje

6     Kolisi 

5     Moerat

4     Etzebeth           Bench - ????  

Nov 22, 2022, 15:38

What a pathetically conservative selection. We have lost this before we even kick off

Willemse retained at 10 is a joke but the biggest insult is Orie and Mostert in the same side against a physical England pack

How utterly disappointing

Nov 22, 2022, 16:15

That Midfield combination is a worrying point.....Jessica has done zero to be in the team....and DDA @ 12 is risky.....all the games we have lost, those 2 were in the Midfield.....Roos starting is positive.....but orie, s inclusion is not good enough....where is Jenkins, Moerat or Nortje.....no real cover for lock besides Mostert.....with this team they have chosen to grind the game out....Willemse at 10 instead of Libbok???? Whatever.... R&N thinks they know best, but results show otherwise.

Nov 22, 2022, 16:41

Agree, that is my problem with some of the selections. Those that have been part of the system almost gets automatically selected. I'm know some on here rate Mostert, but he has been absolutely rubbish, knocking so many balls on, not dominating the collision area or winning balls in the line out. 

Orie, oh please, this guy should not even play for any franchises, he is a currie cup player at best and probably won't make a varsity cup team. What on earth happened to Jenkins? 

Then, we had the perfect oppurtinty to blood Henco van Wyk as the air to Am. Imagine, Libbok, Willemse and Henco as your midfield axis? 

Anyway, just hope we can keep within touching distance of England. Absolutely dumb selection as always. 

Nov 22, 2022, 16:46

This is a team that makes nobody happy. Clearly we are back to up and unders, tractoring, mauls and the rush defence. Scrum dominance is crucial to set up the maul. But that too has faded this year. Meanwhile Harrassmiss is tilting at windmills. 

SOS to Jake White…will ye no come back again?


Nov 22, 2022, 17:06

Moz, unfortunately Rassie and Mark Alexander go way back and they won't cut their losses with him. I just hope Rassie pulls a rabbit out the hat come World Cup next year, but I don't see any easy path out. I would feel more comfortable if we had White, because his no name bulls team beat a full strength Leinster team in Dublin. 

So? Are we going to Lose to Ireland and then either face France or NZ in the Quarters. We are going the same path as Pieter Devilliers and I haven't seen anything from Rassie that we are on the right track when it comes to player selection. 

His only redemption will be to win the World Cup, but I don't know how he will do it given the draw and our current record against those teams. 

Nov 22, 2022, 17:13

I'm not surprised that Willemse was selected at 10, not that I regard him at all. It would have still been more instructive to start Libbok. This was actually quite a good test to see what he can do. Starting a test, and establishing a rhythm and tone for the game is more telling than coming on later when you know what you need to change. The loose trio is highly suspect. Mostert does owe us a big game; the other two are questionable. I don't know what Damian did to earn a cap in this game. Kriel has shown the best ability of our players to assert a strong presence on defence on the edge. For skills, 9-10-12-13 rate no more than a 4/10. It's quite alarming how poor this is. If England can't outplay that bunch, they need to take a long hard look at themselves. 

Nov 22, 2022, 17:24

My thoughts exactly at 10, we need someone that can keep the scoreboard ticking over. We know how to win scrum penalties and having a reliable kicker like Libbok would easily give us 6 points. Now we going into the game with -6. 

Also, don't forget that we always concede two tries in the first half. 

Nov 22, 2022, 17:55

No thanks to Jake White he was an average coach who pissed players off

Fuck him

King - Jenkins is not available as he is a Leinster man

Nov 22, 2022, 18:30

Jessica Kreil at 13... What a waist of space.

And no Libbok to start, what nonsense.
Instead, the Boks go onto the pitch without a test-level pole kicker, and a Willemse is not a test standard flyhalf - especially in UK winter conditions

Nov 22, 2022, 18:40

Well one thing is for sure, KPI's have been met. 8 players of colour in the starting 15 and 3 on the bench. In my book, only one in the starting line up "Orie" isn't there on merit. Then the player that is there on merit is on the bench, Libbok. Best 10 in URC for SA teams. Then 4 of the 8 is black, which should make the ANC somewhat happy, but not Julius as there ere to many whites, which should be none. 

However, I still think Marx and Kitshoff should be our starting front row. 

Heaven forbid what will ever happen if Kolisi gets dropped. He played poor most of the season but started to get better towards the end, had his best game against Italy, but then again, it is Italy. 

He was spending so much time between the tram lines and playing is a 3rd centre, I would almost just make him a 7 instead and either opt for Marco or Kwagga at 6 to play towards the ball. Kolisi showed more intent at the breakdown, but poaching those balls still eluded him. 

I probably would have gone with Moodie over Mpimpi, he can only finish and chase kicks but are terrible on the tackle and often get beaten on the outside. He doesn't cut the line or have the ability to score long range tries. His scoring zone is normally 10 to 20 meter out. 

Nov 22, 2022, 19:07

Kolisi is not a merit selection. He should never have been capped. Kolisi at 7 was tried in 2018, with the excellent Louw at 6. Erasmus won't go there again. But regardless, it won't change his role on the field anyway.

Nov 22, 2022, 19:41

Bullshit, Kolisi is a class act and a great leader

By some distance our best open side

Nov 22, 2022, 20:27

Kolisi as Eben rallies the troops... 

47 Little Boy Holding Father's Leg At Park Stock Photos, Pictures &  Royalty-Free Images - iStock

Nov 23, 2022, 00:33

Kolisi is a lucky packet….in most games he drifts around doing nothing. Occasionally something seems to pull his on switch and he surprises with a decent performance. A very frustrating player. Frankly there is no reason to swop your captain off the park at minute 55…if that captain is loose forward.

Nov 23, 2022, 14:09

Then 4 of the 8 is black, which should make the ANC somewhat happy, but not Julius as there ere to many whites, which should be none.

What a statement. From reading the list, it is barely possible to tell one player from another. Which player has an African name. Ah, yes, there is the quota captain.

SA rugby have failed to bring rugby to SA. There is nothing African in this team. It is not even granted that so called quota players can speak an African language.

Maybe one day, SA rugby supporters would peddle as African a SA rugby team that would feature only white skinned players, all of them looking white, yet 8 of them having one quota ancestor six generations ago.

That could be expected in a north hemisphere. Not in an African country.

The list of names could be one that plays for the Netherlands. Including with the African players. Actually, in the north, there may be teams that feature more African names than SA rugby.

Better to drop the act. There is nothing to it. As much as SA rugby supporters want it, the non existing quota policy claim is not enough to hide the situation of rugby in SA.

Nov 23, 2022, 18:39


Nov 23, 2022, 19:48

Kolisi, on a good day, successfully fulfills the role of bolstering the outer units, attacking the seams, and linking in play. Are these contributions game-changing? Very commonly this is not the case, and such duties are better filled by other players. To all of Kolisi's key contributions, Kwagga betters them and delivers vastly more and does so with impeccable consistency. 

Nov 24, 2022, 14:20


That is it. SA rugby indeed play the race card. They want to peddle the idea that team players who would relate only through ancestry to African people are African.

That is that, an unexpected but accurate admission, SA rugby play the race card.

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