For many years we have been debating how strong the SA teams truly are when we were in Super Rugby and often argued that it was the time zones and the fact that the guys are away from home for so long. 

Fast forward, SA have broken away from Super Rugby and now fully participating in Europe, in all comps. 

Yet. the big hope has quickly fizzled out. We thought that our teams would walk the comp but we only have 1 team in the top 4 and our other teams are either in a fierce mid table battle or floundering at the bottom. 

The bottom rank team is no other than the might Saarks that was leading the Super rugby comp before it got yanked out of the comp due to some chinaman eating a bat. 

The Stormers were able to win the first, the bulls have been competitive for most of the comp but often struggle. 

The lions probably shouldn't even be in the comp as they have chosen not to bring big names back but rather rely on a youth team made up with has been players from yester year. Probably because Rudolp Destroyli is running the show. 

Do you think a Kiwi team / teams would do better? 

What about the Aussie teams? 

Or do we have too many SA born players based abroad that good add strength. Baring in mind that the sharks and Bulls have loaded up with boks and yet both them are still to win a trophy. 

The only shining beacon is Leinster, they have used their youth structures, school systems and build their team from the grass roots.  Most of who are playing for Ireland. 70% of the team play for Ireland and they have been playing together for many years. 

The same could be said of the crusaders. 

When did anyone say we would walk the comp?

We have 100 first class players playing their rugby outside of SA so judging the strength of our domestic sides is a tough one.

Bulls, Stormers and Sharks have good squads. The Bulls and Stormers have mostly done well while the Sharks have completely underperformed

We haven’t found our groove yet….and besides the NH teams has grown considerably in strength all round….our teams are struggling a bit and the Class of a Leinster for Example, looks to be operating on a higher level when it comes to team, coaching and selections structures….we are still looking to build more continuity as SA teams.

Chin up, King.

I don't mind the Lions taking some licks right now because one feels they are building something. There are glimpses of dominance and a good amount of their errors are down to things that will be rooted out as the team matures.

I much prefer that to what the Sharks have done really.

Were the money there, we could probably build 4 Superstar teams and do a lot better. Objectively speaking, that wouldn't be much good for the URC.

I kinda like that we getting into street fights with some of the smaller Euro clubs and sometimes losing to them. And I think those wins really mean something to their supporters.

I mean, the Ospreys win recently would have been fantastic for their fans. And put more bums on seats going forward.

The Irish teams are up there with the best NZ has to offer...Leinster, Munster and Ulster will be more than just competitive vs NZ sides. Glasgow is right up there this season...Edinburgh not that far behind...Ospreys beat the Stormers in CT...mid table...Benetton not too shabby either...this is a good competition with lots of really competitive matches...illustrated by the close log table at the tail end of the competition...Super Rugby was great while it lasted, but they kicked us out...fck them...for now...URC took us in and it's a symbiotic relationship...why all the bloody complaints?...and we get a shot at the Heineken Cup...praat van kla met die witbrood onder die arm...

I talk it down as it excludes English and French clubs which is huge

Do you talk down the English league because it excludes the French and URC clubs or the French league because it excludes the English and URC clubs?

I'm not discrediting the European clubs. They have gotten a lot better and way more professional. 

If you look at a team like Saracens, they brought in some "2nd Class" player from SA that struggled to crack the starting team but then goes on to become an icon

 Thinking of a lions player but can't recall his name. Schalc Brits was another that shone and were one the Rassie specials to the bok team. 

Leinster have adopted the NZ model. Everything from Grass roots to reaching the top team is well managed . 

I like what the lions are doing, probably need another season. 

Stormers have exceeded expectations. 

Bulls have brought through some good names. 

I think the main problem is that our teams need to invest in our players, not just have a guy for a couple of seasons and then kick them to the curve bringing the next youngster in..

I like the player cap. I would also stress that they'll have to put these guys on a 5 year contract. That would force the unions to manage the guys correctly. 

It means entry would be much harder and the guys will spend more time and making sure the right players are signed 

Different type of competition - domestic vs international club

Big difference

"It's not just about money. The French have the money but it doesn't always guarantee success. Its the whole package, players, money, environment, structures, coaching."

No, but we have ton of talented players, a great school boy level, and lots of interest in the game. The general rugby environment is great...but a specific club's environment is always a lucky dip and down to a few people that either make it or break it.

The component most missing in SA's case is money. In France it's exposure and talent. I actually don't know how the French system works but if it's anything like England then it's mainly posh kids that are exposed to the game and at schoolboy level one has to join a club to play rugby.