White - South Africa has to review selection of overseas players

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Jan 10, 2022, 10:49

The following contains White's vie on the issue:-


Towards the end of last year, the Bulls confirmed that they had agreed to an early release for prop Trevor Nyakane, who will be joining French club Racing 92.

It adds to a local landscape where numerous current Springboks play their rugby overseas, with SA Rugby having adopted an ‘open policy’ to picking players based abroad.

South Africa’s director of rugby Rassie Erasmus has widely acknowledged that SA Rugby simply can’t afford to keep many of the leading players in the country due to the current exchange rate and nature of the lucrative offers that come in from cash-flush overseas clubs.

From a Springbok perspective at least, the approach is to allow for overseas teams to effectively have South Africa’s leading players on their payroll, while the Boks can still benefit from selecting them.

However, with Nyakane – who has been at the Bulls since 2015 – set to join a legion of South Africans playing overseas, former Bok coach White believes a conversation needs to begin around this subject.

“Now is a good time, before the next contracting cycle, for SA Rugby to draw a line on picking players who are contracted to overseas clubs,” the Bulls director of rugby told SARugbymag.co.za.

“South Africa are world champions and SA Rugby did something that has worked because, in 2018 when Rassie Erasmus was appointed, the current cycle of Springbok players were all overseas. But we can’t allow that with the next cycle of players.

“South African franchises have basically become academies for overseas clubs,” said White. “Because the top senior talent is overseas, we play juniors from school who wouldn’t otherwise have been involved in senior rugby, and then when those youngsters are 21 or 22, they’ve got experience under the belt and the overseas clubs sign them and have them for the peak of their careers.”

We all know it is a problem with multiple causes and results.   The SA franchises - other than the Bulls - have major financial problems and retaining of players by them is near to impossible - while the exchange rtate of the Rand is a catastrophe as well.   

Rugby players on test level has a relative short career ad players must cater for their financial future to the best of their abilities in that period.    The problem White raise is found in virtually all codes of sport - especially soccer - where club players play for their countries irrespective  of where they apply their trade.

Some people think before raising issues - others put their foot in their mouth - Prince Philip called that pedantology - I think  White is guilty of that problem too.           

Jan 10, 2022, 14:46

Yeah I read this shit on Facebook

Jake is really a stupid prick. Does he really think SA can compete with the salaries offered abroad?

Does he really think players are going to stay in SA, forfeiting a chance to earn a good living just so they remain eligible to play for the Boks

Long gone are the days that it’s only the older experienced and established players that leave for greener pastures - now-days we see foreign scouts targeting players while still at school.

Is Jake seriously this stupid. Does he honestly think we could compete by ignoring the 100 plus provincial standard players based overseas?

The exodus is never going to stop as the rand simply can’t compete - so Jake needs to catch a fucking reality check and get with the modern times and not be stupid enough to suggest we shoot ourselves in the foot by limiting the pool of players we can choose from

Trust dumb Jake to come up with this shit

Fucking idiot

Jan 10, 2022, 16:34

So if a South African club competes up north, with a fair portion of their revenues in Sterling and much of their costs in Rand they can’t compete and  it’s Jake that’s stupid. Watson is forever!

Jan 10, 2022, 19:14

Mozart 

This really is not the wisest remark White made,    In fact it is totally unthinking garbage       

Jan 10, 2022, 22:10

This is a valid point White is making as we keep on losing young good talent to NH. We must contract them before they leave for NH clubs so they play there test career for the boks. They can still earn there top Sterling, but they for the Boks. The fact is that most of these players will gladly play for the Boks, but they are blindly being over looked ( Case and point, Dylan Richards gone TG soon to be gone)....With all the time R&N had so far and the few new recruits in the Bok Squad, it looks strongly like they will persist with out of form golden oldies. And talking about wise, Rassies,s video Rant that caused him to be banned and not there for his team, is not only not wise, but stupid and caused more Damage then good so far.

Jan 10, 2022, 22:12

Wow Moz you are coming across as stupid as Jake is.

The SA sides play in one competition up North and you think the SA based players will be rewarded financially because of this and will therefore stay in SA

Bwhaaahaaa

Jan 10, 2022, 23:07

Maybe younger SA based players around 18-21 that are employed by SA rugby Unions should have 2 contracts. (Or one based on duration with a performance clause). 

A standard employment contract, and a buyout contract over a longer period as a performance clause 

So, if a player gets a 3-year youth contract, they sign a 5 year buy out contract.
This means the union can exert its right to extend the employment contract for another 2 years for players that develop into top-level players. (The shit can be discarded for the next batch of new young players).

If a player wants to leave after 3 years, the overseas rugby union will need to pay out the SA union for another 2 years. 

This would earn SA unions more money by selling youth products, and in doing so have a higher budget to retain more players. 

At the moment Jake is right in that SA teams are just a youth development league to poach at will. 
Longer contracts will mean more return on investment of the youth programs in SA rugby. However the performance clause part means the club can end contracts, without extending through the buyout phase. 

Jan 10, 2022, 23:48

That would lead to very few youngsters signing contracts locally

Jake has come up with nothing new

We all know SA players are in high demand overseas for two obvious reasons - their ability and the fact they earn peanuts at home, so it’s pretty easy luring them abroad

Jan 11, 2022, 06:10

No Dave I think they will be rewarded better because of the NH revenues…..and for players trying to break through to the Bok jersey and its financial rewards, that may be enough. Players who are Bok fixtures are in a position to choose the highest paying gig.

Ultimately club rugby in the NH is likely to drain even NZ and Oz for talent. That’s the way it tends to workin soccer. Messi doesn’t play in Argentina, but he plays for the national team.


White is quite right that making Bok selection easier if you play in RSA has a significant economic value…but perhaps at too high a price to pay for the Boks. 

Jan 11, 2022, 10:55

You mean making it easier by selecting weaker players in the Meyer and  Coetzee node?   Erasmus appointed Jones  as part of his coaching team.  he is stationed in Dublin to liaise with SA players playing for  NH Clubs  and especially deals with performances  on a  scientific  basis and  report on performances to Erasmus - whose duties include development of rugby in all formats in SA and whose Head Coaches report to him.   That includes 7's and Women Rugby as well.

As per normal Erasmus is way ahead of White in the realistic thinking ability and strategy to meet the challenges faced by SA players in the present environment.             

Jan 11, 2022, 13:15

No Moz Jake is wrong as per usual and so are you.

Our local provincial sides are in dire financial positions so any small additional income they receive will certainly not be seen by the players and if they do it will be a very small one, hardly enough to offset the fees they could earn abroad

Restricting Bok selections to SA based players alone would be the stupidest thing Bok rugby could ever do. It would be short sighted, arrogant and completely suicidal

Thankfully we do not have dumb Jake in charge. It was wise Rassie who put an end to that stupid rule that only overseas based players with 30 Bok caps or more were eligible for Bok selection.

You have to be pretty naive to think that in the current financial climate, SA could ever compete with overseas clubs. There is absolutely no point in trying to challenge reality and the best way of dealing with it is to accept it and not be stupid enough to shoot yourself in the foot by restricting your selection options

It’s a no brainer and trust stupid Jake to see it differently

Jan 11, 2022, 17:38

Things may change a little as the salary cap lowers over here to £5 million per squad and only one marquee player allowed. 

Jan 11, 2022, 17:44

A more interesting question is what the financial implications of leaving Super Rugby and playing in the NH are. 


But if we are playing Super Rugby or up north, our revenues should be reflecting those international competitions. Granted that local advertising in South Africa probably isn’t as lucrative. But it’s  a far more complex question than the value of the Rand.

As for Harrassmiss figuring out that we should select overseas players, everybody on the Board thought that except for Peeper. It’s obvious……as is almost everything this narcissist has done.

Jan 11, 2022, 22:21

Sanzaar  was basically kept financially viable to by the massive  financial contribution of  DSTV - Supersport to the tune of  AUS $1,6 billion.   Supersport reached an interim agreement for present matches - which is not going to be beneficial for the franchices as Super Rugby used to be.     

Jan 12, 2022, 00:36

A subtle thing that was missed is if you are playing up north there are Saffas playing for the SA teams and for the NH clubs. So it becomes easier to gauge and integrate these players. When Super Rugby was the best global club contest, who cared what you did playing for Harlequins. The real test….the thing that confirmed your Bok potential was Super Rugby.

And given almost no South Africans played Super Rugby for foreign clubs, there was real pressure to play for South African clubs.

Now without Super Rugby much of that pressure is gone….we lose familiarity with our NZ/Oz opponents and get comfortable with the lower physicality of NH back play without the big, fast SH backs.

One could easily conclude it’s a very bad move for Springbok rugby from a bunch of angles we never anticipated. The old Super 12 was perfect.


Jan 12, 2022, 09:53

I am with you on Super Rugby - but not with White's ideas about the situation.    SA frabchjises needed to  get funds from Supersport to survive financially to amongst others pay the players and the funds are just not coming in anymore.    

White is fine - the Bulls franchise is owned by Rupert nd Montsepe and they do not have the financial problems faced by other franchises , while the Sharks are also controlled by their private sector  partner, while the Stormers are under financial administration by SARU and must now sell their properties to cover their debts - technically they are bankrupt .   

Erasmus realized the inevitable and take measures to protect the Springbok team by using Jones to monitor closely rugby performances in Europe by SA Players.      

    

Jan 12, 2022, 11:26

It’s all good and well that Jones keeps tabs on SA talent in NH, but it helps absolutely Zero if these talents don’t get picked and drawn into Bok fold. Instead of giving obvious talents like Fassi that is in the squad, game time, R&N sticks with Willie meer nie and prop Frans? Or the du preez twins, Damian Willemse another example...how can you expect them to be the next incumbents when they get practically no game time? The main focus for upcoming season should Be to give the young guns Fassi etc. All the game time they need +bringing in new faces that also get game time like TG before ENG takes him, Roos, elrigh louw, esterhuisen etc etc...if that will really happen under R&N only time will tell.

Jan 12, 2022, 14:19

I agree with two head-ache selections - there  is nothing wrong with Malherbe other than a present injury and his defense is top class as a Tight 5 player.   There are serious problems with Le Roux and then also Mostert - who is now nothing more than a bench player.

When it comes to selection those are two prime replacements that needs to be considered  this year is a high priority.    Snyman  and Du Toit should be be back this year -  both are top class players.   

The other worry is Vermeulen - he was brilliant in 2019 - but this year he was not anything of the sort.   Another two seasons and he will be 36 years old and that is not a prime performance age for players.  

We has had a deficiency at full back inasmuch as the back-up  players  are reasonable ball carriers - but really pace-deficient and often enough not good enough  in both attacking and defense.  The Springboks will have an opportunity to experiment with potential replacements this year.   Lets wait and see what happens.   

i am also worried about the flyhalf position.   While  Jantjies did slightly better than he did in 2019 - there was a serious decline in the performances of Pollard.              

Jan 12, 2022, 21:37

Agreed Moz losing out on Super rugby is a huge loss for SA rugby, especially considering that the comp we play in up North does not include the English and French clubs

Mike you speak so much crap sometimes. Fassi is one of the quickest players in SA so speed deficiency is a figment of your imagination. Gelant is more than quick enough as a fullback as is Willemse so stop speaking kak

We have no issue at 10, there is nothing wrong with Pollard - class is permanent, lack of form temporary not that I buy into Pollard being that off the pace as some ignorant fools maintain. Jantjies has always been a class act and we have Goosen back in the frame. No doubt Bosch will make a comeback and in Hendrikse and Chamberlain we have two exciting young 10’s

Get with the program Mike

Jan 14, 2022, 00:32

Pollard is not the same player compared to the beginning of R&N tenure. He is more conservative, does not attack the gain line as much as he used to....the reason for this is to accommodate R&N gameplan. This consist of kicking a shit load and stamp kar mauls till the cows come home.

Jan 14, 2022, 22:02

Rubbish Pollard was down on form a little it had stuff all to do with the game plan

Jan 15, 2022, 14:24

My opinion is that Rasssie is a excellent motivator and general good coach, mostly forward oriented and Nienaber is a really good defence Guru....but something is missing in making us a all round best team....we need a backline guru which we don’t have!!!! That is exactly why Pollard has gone stale and not playing his natural in born way......R& N has got skill in many areas and have done good in making us better, but they have no cooking clue about creative backline play. And our defence is also failing due to the amount of tries we gave away. If can’t see these evident facts, then you are the biggest ignorant Rugby fool.

Jan 16, 2022, 17:33

It appears Jake has already had an effect:

SA Rugby looks set to reward their South African-based players in 2022 when they field a Springboks team against Eddie Jones’ England exclusively made up of players based in the country.


Jan 16, 2022, 17:46

It has nothing to do with Jake's comments at all.    The test against England falls outside of the test window of World Rugby - same as the 2018 EOYT England test and the NH club players will not be available.   Erasmus did the same thing in a number of tests in 2018 when he picked potential players in tests to see whether they would make the grade and  that test will also be an example of  giving players an opportunity to show what they are capable of.   In any event the match outside the test window period was probably arranged with exactly that in mind.

   

Jan 16, 2022, 21:49

No it wasn’t, it was arranged when it could be arranged….playing a B team is an economic negative England wouldn’t have agreed to if there were options. And the fact that players from Japan and other countries weren’t considered…..that ONLY…players in RSA are being chosen sounds like Jake’s comments have touched a nerve.

Jan 16, 2022, 23:45

It’s of no effect if it only applies to the England game

Clearly there is a reason for the rule of home based only against England - Mike is probably correct - outside the test window

It has fuck all to do with dumb Jake’s naive and ignorant take

Jan 17, 2022, 00:06

The Boks are set to face England in a Test match at Twickenham on Saturday, 26 November, 2022 – a date that falls outside the official international window.

As a result, the Boks will likely be without their French and English-based squad members. According to Afrikaans outlet Rapport in South Africa, the plan is to field a team purely made up of those plying their trade in the Rainbow Nation.

Jan 17, 2022, 05:40

Yes we know that….but only South African based players will be playing…..not Saffas playing in Japan or any other country. From reports it sounds like, with the non availability of European players  they have decided on a pure SA based team.

Jan 17, 2022, 13:52

Yes the hand is forced it has stuff all to do with Jake’s ignorant call to permanently disregard overseas based players

The guy is a fucking idiot for even making such a ludicrous suggestion

There is short sighted and then you get Jake

Jan 17, 2022, 17:24

Too much of a coincidence..   Jake opines and a week later we announce an all South African based team for the Pom test. I’m not saying his remedy was right but he has shone an early light on an issue which could dramatically affect our rugby. This is is the consequence of abandoning  Super Rugby, which will have profound consequences.

Jan 17, 2022, 19:29

What has coincidence got to do with the fact that we are not allowed to select foreign based players outside the test window period?

SA rugby did not hear Jake and then decide to make it an all SA based selection against England, their hand was forced

The whole test window rule is a load of crap as far as I’m concerned. Players should always be available for tests.

Agreed on the loss of Super rugby - its a huge negative for our rugby

 
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