World starting 15

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Dec 17, 2019, 19:06

Folau

Kolbe

Vakatawa

Kerevi

Koroibete

Barrett

De Klerk

....


Beast

Marx

Furlong

Etzebeth

Jaws

Savea

Matera

Vermeulen


Dec 17, 2019, 19:17

Nope mine would be:

15. Barrett 14. Kolbe 13. Goodhue 12. de Allende 11. Stockdale 10. Pollard 9. Faf 1. Kitshoff 2. Marx 3. Furlong 4. Etzebeth 5. Jaws 6. Savea 7. PSDT 8. Read

Dec 17, 2019, 19:18

Nothing new from Mozart

He has the same list of players he likes and then he leaves out players he hates.   Never mind what positions they play in - he picks players.   Performance is never his evaluation norm.

Both his loosies are in fact blindsiders and his flyhalf had not played in that position for ages - so keep it up Mozart - we really enjoy your contributions.   

Likle Dave;s selection - more in line with reality, 



Dec 17, 2019, 19:20

I prefer Barrett at 10 but I have at 15 as I want Pollard in my side as well

Dec 17, 2019, 19:24

No problem - I think that one can lay Barrett at flyhalf - Hansen preferred  Crusaders players though,   Both Du Toit and Savea are blindsiders though, but Savea had a few games ta 8 as well.   

Dec 17, 2019, 19:43

Savea has played plenty of games at open side - he is not a blindside too skilful for that. For me his best spot is open side given his attacking skills 

Dec 17, 2019, 20:15

Agreed, Wanker has this wrong....probably  confused by  the 6/7 numbering system. This is actually one of Hansen's major mistakes. He should have entrusted Savea with the open side role from the off, and looked for a power blindsider, who is a natural flank unlike Barrett.

Dec 17, 2019, 20:21

I'm actually thinking my backline is the best attacking backline ever. Defence may be a bit of an issue with Koroibete and supports your Stockdale suggestion, although Stockdale is off the boil since I first saw him at Soldier Field.


Matera in the Bok pack would be magnificent. Kitshoff is not a great scrummager, Beast was better at the WC. Vermeulen is and has always been a better player than Read.

Dec 18, 2019, 00:18

Only you are confused by the numbering system dimness,   Kerevi has even a bigger defense issue than Koroibete - what a lark!!!  LMAO

On Super Rugby level Savea often used to play as an opensider.   During the past year though their were in the NZ media a number of articles pointing out that he is too slow to be really effective as an opensider,   For the AB's Cane was the opensider of the AB's this year and when he did play Savea played as blindsider,    Go and check the team if you don't believe me,             

Dec 18, 2019, 00:50

Bullshit Kitshoff is a great scrummager and no way in hell is or was Vermeulen ever better than Read who is simply brilliant at his best

Read is probably the best 8 I have ever seen

His skill level for a forward is on another level and a brilliant rugby brain

Dec 18, 2019, 01:00

Saffex I like your idea of having both Barratt and Pollard in the team and my only change would be the Beast instead of Kitshoff.

The best 8 I have seen has to be Tommy Bedford with Read up their as well.

Dec 18, 2019, 01:26

There have been some great 8’s around including Vermeulen, I loved Skinstad, then there was Zinzan and Perisse but Read tops them in my opinion

Skill and decision making give him the edge

Dec 18, 2019, 02:10

Nah my backline will blow your's in the weeds Dave.....far, far more firepower

Savea a more natural fullback than Barrett

Vakatawa far more explosive than Goodhue, best 13 since JJ.

Kerevi owns Dud. Last time Kerevi played the  Boks he made 83 metres, 3 clean breaks and beat 8 defenders.

Koroibete vs Stockdale....50/50.

Barrett vs Pollard.....depends on the game plan, but if you want to play an attacking game it has to be Barrett.



Dec 18, 2019, 02:17

No chance Moz, mine is better

de Allende owned Kerevi this year and Goodhue trumps Vakatawa by some distance

Folau is dead to the rugby world so not an option

Dec 18, 2019, 05:56

Er Dave ....Dud  never played against Kerevi this year ...Esterhozen did. In fact Dud only played against Oz once under Eraser....10 runs/14 metres/  0 clean breaks/ 0 offloads/1 defender beaten.

Dec 18, 2019, 06:35

Best no8's? How dare you leave my bloke Toutai Kefu out?

Dec 18, 2019, 06:38

But usefully we can compare them against the same opposition....England and Wales...in the WC, in big matches. These are games the Boks won the physical battle, so Allende had the better opportunity.


Defence was even. Allende 16 tackles and missed 3 cumulatively for an 84% success rate. Kerevi made 12 tackles and missed 2 for an 86% success rate

On attack Allende made 23 runs for 110 metres at  4.78 metres a run. Kerevi made 29 runs for 128 metres 4.41 metres a run. Fairly even and run distance in such a small sample can be influenced by one open field run.

Defenders beaten and clean breaks are better stats in a small sample and Dud made no clean breaks and beat only 4 defenders. Whereas Kerevi made 4 clean breaks and beat10 defenders.

Massive advantage Kerevi who beat a defender every 2.9 runs.....vs Dud Allende who beat a defender every 5.75 runs.

It's rare that we can compare two players so decisively against the same opposition in a tight time frame....and in this case the answer is clear, Kerevi is the more potent centre.



Dec 18, 2019, 06:44

Geez Denny .....what about Doug Hopwood?

Dec 18, 2019, 06:47

Didn't see him but your word is good enuff.

Dec 18, 2019, 08:48

On Super Rugby level Savea often used to play as an opensider.   During the past year though their were in the NZ media a number of articles pointing out that he is too slow to be really effective as an opensider,

You really love peddling lies, don't you Mike? Here are some of the comments about Savea in 2019 articles:

Rugbyonslaught.com: Just look at the speed he had for some of these tries. It's actually ridiculous.

Hurricanes.co.nz: He impressed many with a series of electric performances at openside flanker and No. 8 and is blessed with speed and athleticism

Stuff.co.nz: Savea often defends in a wider channel where traffic is quieter and where he can use his speed to close down the likes of Anton Lienert-Brown.

NZherald.co.nz: He can slot in anywhere. He's got that speed at the back of the scrum [..]
He's got that speed as well. If he gets a half gap he's gone.

Rugbyworldcup.com: It's his all-round game - like his speed, his physicality. I can't put it on one thing.

Dec 18, 2019, 09:20

1. Vunipola

2. Horie

3. Hamburger Nyakane

4. Itoje

5. Ryan

6. Savea (openside)

7. Yato

8. Himeno

9. Du Pont

10. Barrett

11. Radradra

12. Laumape

13. Tuilagi

14. Reece

15. Folau


Du Pont should have been a regular starter for the French. He has it all. None better.

Barrett is the best 10 on the planet. Playing him at 10 is a no brainer especially with Folau in the mix.

Radradra is an absolute monster. He would be one of the first names on my list. I would hate to play against him.

How Laumape never made the side is beyond me. He walks my starting 15. 

Manu Tuilagi has exactly what I want in a 13. He gets unbelievable go forward and needs 2 to 3 players to stop him.  He's just come off an injury and can only get better. 

Reece is unstoppable and easily the best wing in rugby today. Others that put their hands up are Koroibete and Masushima. Matsushima makes my bench.

Kolbe is a class act but pales in comparison to Radradra, Korobeite, Reece and Matsushima. Too damn small and needs to work on his pace.

Folau is a given at the back. None better.

Read is old and way past his best. Awesome player in his day but those days are long gone.

I enjoy Himeno and his high work rate. I believe he'll shine at the back of a power pack.

Yato is another Fijian monster. Powerful ball carrier and unstoppable. Those tree trunks he has for legs are fearsome and takes some doing bringing this Goliath down.

Savea is a natural openside flank and should have started there every match. The All Blacks' coach was confused at the best of times and slipped up here.

My lock pair cannot be matched by any. James Ryan and the brilliant Itoje are formidable. I'd have Snyman on my bench.
 
Horie comes in as my hooker. His work rate and tackling cannot be matched by anyone. He also has a very accurate lineout put in. Absolute class act.

The only Goat to make my side is Hamburger Nyakane. He has stepped up this year and I would like to see anyone dominate him in the scrum set piece. Also a solid ball carrier in the tight loose. Furlong makes my bench.

Beast is all hype. He was cleaned up on several occasion by the worst tighthead in rugby history ... according to Mike ...  Ruan Dreyer. Glad to see the back of him.

It was a toss up for the loosehead prop. I went with Vunipola as he had an awesome WC and can compete against the best in the business. Kitshoff has hit a slump and in truth was never an option. He's just not good enough to mix it up with the world's best.



  
 





Dec 18, 2019, 11:15

No Pakie

I said Kerevi has a defense problem and it is due to pace deficiency,    In the SA test in the RC he made 7 tackles and missed two - a missed tackle ratio of   22,22.   In the RC match against Argentina he made 9 tackles and missed 4  - an MTR of 30,77.   In the WB game against England Kerevi made 6 tackles and missed 2 for an MTR of 25.   That kind of Missed Tackle ratio is way too high and a definite no-no for 12's

Kerevi is a very strong ball carrier - but as to effectiveness in that regard there are serious question marks as to real effectiveness of his carries, because of pace deficiency.  To make him the top center in the world is utterly ridiculous,            

Dec 18, 2019, 12:04

Here is what you said:

On Super Rugby level Savea often used to play as an opensider.   During the past year though their were in the NZ media a number of articles pointing out that he is too slow to be really effective as an opensider

Clearly you were not talking about Kerevi.

Dec 18, 2019, 12:05

No Moz I meant overall for the year de Allende was better than Kerevi and there is no doubting that

It’s evidenced in his position on this list and the fact he made most of the pundits WC 12 of the tournament

The only other candidate named at 12 was Farrell which was a joke

Kerevi is good but de Allende was better

Dec 18, 2019, 12:06

Hey Cunt good to see your rugby ignorance shines bright

Your side is a joke

On par with Boshoff at 10 and Dylan Smith at 1

Dec 18, 2019, 12:29

Pakie

So why is Savea not the openside loosie in the NZ team?   There was a debate on Savea earlier were the opinion was clearly expressed by some commentators that he should be used at blindside flank where he played this year for the AB's.  From that one can assume that Hansen agreed on the blindside issue,  

Ask yourself a grown-up question for a change - do you know more about rugby than Hansen??

In any event newspaper articles on individual matches is not he issue here - what is decisive remains the selection to play for the AB's.   A dim idiot you always were  - so take a NY resolution and try to improve - but I would not hold my breath on that one.   Too dangerous since you are on par with Mozart and AO when it comes to duplicity and stupidity,     

       


Dec 18, 2019, 12:51

He was used as both this year. Why would you want to force him to openside when you have a perfectly good specialist there in Sam Cane, with Savea exactly the type of destructive runner you want at blindside?

Dec 18, 2019, 13:43

Pakie

Go back and see what Mozart wrote initially and asked him that stupid question.   He is going on about Matera - a blindsider - and  Savea another blindsider - in his team of 15.  I was merely referring to Mozart's standard idiocy,   

I id not force Savea into anything - he did.

Anyway - you always have to support him - don't you.   

Go back and see what I wrote about member disappointments this year and see where you fit in,    

       

Dec 18, 2019, 14:27

Savea can play at 6, 7 and at 8 ... but he is most comfortable on the openside.

He plays at 7 (openside) for the Canes and should be picked there at test level as he's a better and far more natural opensider than Cane will ever be.

The only reason he ever plays on the blindside for the All Blacks is when Cane is given the 7 jersey.

UH-DUH!!!!!!

Savea played at 7 (openside) against England in the semis. He was preferred to Cane who was pushed to the bench.


The matchday 23 is as follows (Test caps in brackets):


1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Codie Taylor (49)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (79)
5. Samuel Whitelock (116)
6. Scott Barrett (34)

7. Ardie Savea (43)

8. Kieran Read - captain (125)
9. Aaron Smith (90)
10. Richie Mo’unga (15)
11. George Bridge (8)
12. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
13. Jack Goodhue (12)
14. Sevu Reece (6)
15. Beauden Barrett (81)


Stop arguing about something you know nothing about, Mike. You are clueless as usual.



Dec 18, 2019, 14:27

Savea can play both successfully, what's the problem with someone choosing him at either role in a side?

My issue is with you again making up nonsense about "a number of articles" stating something, when in fact no such articles exist. I couldn't find one article calling Savea "slow" or anything to that effect, while articles and comments emphasizing his speed as one of his strengths pop up all over the place.

Dec 18, 2019, 14:31

Mike is a moron ... on par with Stupid Dave.



Dec 18, 2019, 15:34

CC  is just a chronic unstable twit on site,  That selection of Hansen was  complete Fuck up and he admitted it afterwards.   He moved Savea to opensider to make way for Barrett and it did not work out,    Will not happen again - I am sure,         

Dec 18, 2019, 15:48

Don't know why Folau is getting picked, he's goners lads. Unlucky. 


Also Vermeulen played far better than Read this year. I can't imagine the damage a backline with Radradra, Kolbe and Barrett in could do. 

Dec 18, 2019, 16:46

Read has been off for a few years, but he came back strongly in the RWC, but Thor wasn't half shabby either...I'll go with Thor.

Dec 18, 2019, 20:57

Well the picture in Super Rugby was the same.....Kerevi beat 69 tackles. Allende beat 27, well behind Esterhozen, Odendaal, Am, Mapoe and Dyantyi.

Delightful hype job. It started at the WC where the Boks  got the SA press to talk up Dud. The bait was swallowed by the lazy international press, always happy to run with an easy narrative....the powerful Dud. Never mind he ranks low in tackles beaten per run.


Then Allende got two gifts....Biggar and Ford.....the two weakest defending  10s  in international rugby to run at. Hell Biggar even dusted him off on the way the the try line!


This guy did exactly what he has always done ....trot into the opposing defence and tractor. He never made a pass of consequence, a break of real merit or one great tackle all WC.


But the hype just flows...and rugby fans are buying the KoolAid!

Dec 18, 2019, 22:09

Bullshit de Allende at test level was great this year - the lad has been on fire

By some distance the best 12 in the game right now. Only Kerevi challenges but thanks to his WC de Allende reigns supreme

His strength has given the Boks more forward momentum than any other player

As the very knowledgeable Greenwood said - you stop DA you stop the Boks

Dec 18, 2019, 23:24

This magical strength, that somehow just doesn't show up in the numbers! Allende finally found a coach who was happy to play a crashball/zero offload game. That suited Allende as crashball is his only ball....and then he got to do it against two weak points Biggar and Ford. 


Dec 19, 2019, 00:26

Nope he has carried the ball with momentum in every test he has played this year and distributed well when need be. Three great offloads against Italy and huge defence throughout

He was simply fantastic this year and that’s a fact evidenced by his standing on the world stage right now

Moz you just don’t get it, same applies to the likes of PSDT it’s comical man.

So anti these but see so much in a light weight pretender like Mostert - it’s crazy

Fact is nothing I say will change your mind and equally nothing you say will change my mind on how great DA and PSDT are. I take comfort in the fact that my takes are backed by the wide majority and yours are the opposite

You like to take on the tide I prefer swimming with it!!

Dec 19, 2019, 00:36

Delande is a player that has perhaps suffered from poor coaching. His form has fluctuated from amateur pub team to world-class. 


He started off as an excellent prospect that could play inside centre and wing. His offloads were the South African answer to Sonny Bill Williams. He was fast and made good breaks, however, his defence was the worst in SuperRugby. 

He was looking world-class on attack- then his form nosedived. He became the most predictable one-dimensional player in the game. 

Slowly his defence improved to eventually get very good. Under Rassie his all-round them game slowly got better match after match, particularly in 2019. 

He was fantastic at the world cup. Good on attack and defence, so much so that many rated him as the top inside centre at the world cup. 

Dec 19, 2019, 00:43

Schalk Brits said DA was one of the most talented players he had ever played with and that he played to a game plan as they all do. One of the things he said was that he could pass the ball miles off both hands

For me his biggest asset is his freakish strength. He has the power to carry forwards on the charge.

He has the same freakish strength that Marx and Bismark have as do the du Preez twins

Dec 19, 2019, 01:47

That's the problem, in tractor mode he can continue to move forward until a scrum forms around him. None of these slow motion 'runs' ever amount to anything.


As for offloads he never offloaded once against Japan, Wales and England. Hell against Wales he got the ball 12 times and passed once!


The man is a cul de sac. 


Dec 19, 2019, 02:42

Bullshit those carries give the Boks front foot ball, setting up phases, drawing defenders in.

He gives the side momentum, more so than any other 12 right now. 12’s operate in traffic and he does it so well.

Think of how little Farrell had to offer at 12 or SBW or Crotty or Parkes when compared to DA

No 12 spends the game beating defenders left right and centre or operating in volumes of space

Moz you still judge modern centres on how the game was played 10 years ago

Dec 19, 2019, 02:46

Now that Delande's defence has improved it might be worth giving him a few games at outside centre. He used to play on the wing so he has the pace for outside centre. He could be even more dangerous ball in hand on the attack. 

Frans Steyn at 12 with Delande at 13 could be pretty devastating, albeit Steyn is on his last legs. 



Dec 19, 2019, 02:53

Geez fuck me useless Frans at 12 - ouch

Dec 19, 2019, 08:21

Once again Stupid ol Dave sees a step off the left where there wasn't one.

We've heard all this before. Many times. Conjured nonsense. Fabricated brilliance where the rest of us see incompetence. He went on and on about the brilliance of JJ (best since Gerber) ... and don't forget what a world beater Elton Jantjies was ... errr ... is.

Never ending nonsense.  That's Stupid Dave for you.

Top inside centers have a tendency of scoring a lot of tries. Ma'a Nonu scored 31 in his career ... Jean De Villiers scored 27.

De Allende has managed to cross the line 6 times in 6 years and most came as a result of receiving a last minute pass 5m from the line. That's an average of 1 test try a year. Not exactly blowing my skirt up ... but according to Stupid Dave and Mike the Moron, that has the makings of a Bok legend.

Then there's De Allende's defense. Who can ever forget how he was made a fool of by Brown 10m from the line. It was a superb example of how not to defend ... how not to tackle.

I know of a school that uses that footage to teach it's students how not to tackle an opponent.

The man just doesn't have enough brain power to be a success story on the test pitch.

He is big and strong ... a crashballer ... with no distribution skills ... doesn't even have the basics down on how to tackle ... and can't run a defensive back line to save his life.

To make things worse, he can't create anything for his outside man. Simply doesn't have the imagination, the skill nor the brain to be anything other than a dumb crashballer.



 

Dec 19, 2019, 08:26

Ok Mike ... so now that you've been shown that the nonsense you were spouting regarding Savea was factually incorrect ... can we expect an apology and a promise that you'll at least try to pull your head out your arse?



Dec 19, 2019, 10:01

CC

One game does not change a year of test selections stooge,    Especially after Hansen admitted that he made a mistake by selecting Barrett as a blindside flank,   How would you like your eggs - fried, omelet style or scrambled?

Mozart 

By the way - I pointed out Kerevi's defense deficiencies and Mozart ignored it totally because it was factual.   So here we have a real powerful tractor in Kerevi, with two missing tyres caused by defense deficiency.   That is why Mozart is always under an egg mountain and it is getting worse by the day.

Why not defend the defense record of Kerevi dimness or are you too stupid to recognize a real deficiency in a player you punted for the past two years?        

        

Dec 19, 2019, 11:47

Cunt stop lying - do you think by lying your pathetic little effort will carry more weight huh?

This obsession of yours with a step off the left. We know you know fuck all about the game is this a phrase you googled and now use to somehow create the impression you know what you are talking about huh? Fucking lying prick

The rest of you see incompetence who the fuck are the test of you? Would that be the ones who chose him as the 12 of the WC or making the list of the top 50 players in the game

Listen dumbass you are the idiot who is being exposed for knowing fuck all given how highly DA is regarded by most.

It hardly comes as a shock now does it - Boshoff at 10 I kid you not - case well and truly closed

Stick to telling us how much you hate black people that’s your strength

Dec 19, 2019, 12:00

Moron Mike ... we aren't talking about Barrett now are we?

Ardie Savea ... remember? You claimed he was a blindside flank. I corrected you.

Now ... about that apology ... and the promise. Can I expect it soon?



Dec 19, 2019, 12:16

The game has changed since 2011 and centres are no longer major try scorers, especially inside centres. 

Dec 19, 2019, 12:23

Whatever do you mean, Stupid? Where did I lie?

Did you not go on and on about JJ being the best?

How about Jantjies? Wasn't he the greatest 10 to ever don the Bok jersey? You told us of the wondrous work he did on the pitch ... didn't you?

Could have sworn it was you, Stupid!!

I know that lying in front of a judge is how you earn your wage. It's become a way of life for you now ... and I can understand that it was inevitable that all the lies you spout everyday would seep into your private life.

With all that practice, one would have thought that you'd at least be a little better at it.

Seems you can't even get that right.

 


Dec 19, 2019, 12:55

You lied about me saying that DA stepped off his left foot you stupid prick

I said when JJ was on fire that year which he was - that he could be the best 13 we had seen since Gerber, but I was man enough to concede I was wrong you dumbfuck

Jantjies was brilliant for the Lions, Pollard was injured Jantjies was the obvious choice at 10 get it dumbfuck

At least Jantjies has talent unlike your pathetic Boshoff pick - fucking clueless prick

If you knew the game like Shezza points out you would know that the game has changed and modern 12’s don’t score nearly as many as the ones in the past but that fact is beyond your comprehension lying twat.

Name a current test 12 scoring bucket loads of test tries - come on dumbfuck step up and name them

Your rugby ignorance is a joy keep up the good work

Dec 19, 2019, 13:27

Huh??

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahaaa!!!

Are you really that slow on the uptake? Is it humanly possible? Are you a retard? Did your mommy drop you on your head?

I never said anything about De Allende and a step. Are you kidding me? You see, Stupid ... that's why I know you as "Stupid".

I'm tempted to explain my comment, but on second thought I doubt it would help.

Oh ... are you suggesting that De Allende has a step? Interesting!!

What's that? You did what? You conceded that you were ... "WRONG" ... well ... I hate to tell you this, dumb ass, but you've never been right. Not in anything. 

"Man enough" ... pffffffffffffhaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!!! You didn't just say that did you?

Listen up, Dickwad ... Jantjies should never have been given a second bite at the cherry. He exposed himself as a jittery chump and even though we all saw what a mess he made, you kept conjuring nonsense, claiming him to have had a brilliant match.

Are you going to be "man" enough now and "concede" that you were "wrong" on this account too? Go on ... haven't you heard ... the truth shall set you free.

Yeah, yeah ... we've all seen the excuses you use to justify your useless favourites ... "it's not the player ... he's a world beater ... a great ... a legend in the making ... it's the friggin game ... it's changing you see".  

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!!!

Well at least you admitted to De Allende's inability to score tries ... and ... I'm really proud of you Stupid for coming clean that you did in fact say those utterly absurd things about JJ and Jantjies ... and ... in a round about way, that I never lied to you.

Keep it up!!



Dec 19, 2019, 17:34

Kerevi 9 starts in the RC ...3 tries. 

Dud 13 starts in the RC .....1 try.

Dud's 6 tries have been padded by 3 WC tries against weak opposition. He doesn't score tries because he has no vision....a process player.

He was ranked 32nd in Super Rugby 2019 in terms of tries scored.....the only inside centre who played for more than a thousand minutes and didn't score at least 3 tries.


As for centres not scoring tries anymore....nonsense....3 of the top 10 try scorers in Super Rugby were centres. The rest were wings whose tries rely to a large extent on centre play. 

Productive centre play is central to try scoring.....Allende doesn't create or score tries.

Dec 19, 2019, 18:25

Super Rugby isn't test rugby. 

Dec 19, 2019, 18:36

Okay, so what's the theory? What has changed that is unique to centres that makes try scoring less of a factor?

Dec 19, 2019, 19:55

Mozart

I said nothing about Kerevi's  tries = zilch.  II wrote about his deficient defense - which you in your normal style ignores,   If  De Allende in the 219 season had the defense figures of  Kerevi he would have been out of the SA squad,   

The other problem is that Kerevi is a strong - but very pace-deficient ball carrier and also a layer like Esterhuizen = who for obvious reasons not in the SA squad,  

Nothing has changed at all - tryscoring is a priority - even though you disregarded that when it involves certain SA players,

The other three factors are defense and linking up with outside backs and other potential ball carriers and ball protection and recovery at breakdowns.

Comments on defense please.          

Dec 19, 2019, 20:47

Allende's tackling technique  is still pretty much a high grab. But the Bok system of rushing the first and second receiver has made tackling less onerous at 12....and shifted the defensive decision burden to 13 and the wings. That's why we see the wings shooting in so often.

Certainly Kerevi is regarded as a poor defender but his defensive stats against common opponents England Wales were no worse than Dud's....actually slightly better at 86% vs 84%

Dec 19, 2019, 20:57

Mozart

We were not discussing De Allende - you asked a question and I answered the one on Kerevi  and said merely that if De Allende's defense was as bad as that of Kerevi - he would not have been in the SA team.

So forget about De Allende - we all know how warped your myths are  about him,   So Kerevi is an inadequate defender and you admitted it - but still think he is the best center in the world,  LMAO     

Dec 19, 2019, 21:33

I asked a question about Schiff?

Dec 19, 2019, 23:33

The reason centres score less tries in tests these days is obvious

Less space, structured defences

In the last 3 years or so you see very few tries from 12’s at test level

Kerevi was good this year but DA was better and that is reflected in his international standing

Vary similar players in fact

Clearly modern day 12’s need to be big and powerful in order to make an impression in traffic

Dec 20, 2019, 01:07

So centres need more space than scrummies, flyhalves, wings and fullbacks? If contracting space was an issue one would expect that to effect halfbacks first.

Positions go through cycles. Right now we have poor centres and props.....nobody in the class of O'Driscoll, Jean and Nonu in the centres. No loosehead as potent as Ayerza.

By contrast the locks in particular are stellar.


O Driscoll, Jean and Nonu would still be ringing the cash register. The space argument is balls.

Dec 20, 2019, 01:15

Bullshit Jean would make far less impression in the modern game especially considering his physicality was middle ground.

Nonu was good but not that special

O’Driscoll would have suffered under the structured defences of today

The game has changed somewhat in the last few years

Unless the laws and rules change we won’t see centres ripping through sides like the past, no matter how talented they are.

There are more than enough great modern centres about - no better or worse than the Jean era

Same applies to props, hell just look how many great props SA has for a start. Look at England’s props - Mako, Marler, Genge, Sinckler, Williams etc

Dec 20, 2019, 07:04

Nonsense  Dave .....more of your unsupported assertions. We saw Kerevi and Vakatawa ripping at the WC. The notion that centres are uniquely affected by reduced space is clearly balls. You haven't even proven there is reduced space. Hell even Japan found space on the outside against the Boks supposedly state of the art defence.

There were 33 tries in the 2019 knockouts vs 38 in 2015.....hardly seems like a sea change, especially as 2015 saw NZ score 9 tries in blowing out France.

In the semis and two finals there were 13 tries in both 2015 and 2019. Defences are hardly more dominant. And in 2011 there were only 8 tries in the semis and finals. Perhaps defence was more potent in 2011!

But hey don't let the facts confuse you!

Dec 20, 2019, 09:02

Inside centres are all crashballing now, that's the current trend and reason why they're not scoring as many tries, you can lament the days of Nonu, De Villiers, et al.


 

Dec 20, 2019, 17:15

Balls Moz you are speaking kak Kerevi and Vakatawa did not rip through the WC not even close.

The most effective centre at the WC was de Allende and that’s a fact and he hardly ripped through everyone

Tries out wide says very little about what happened at 12

Dec 20, 2019, 17:50

Shezza you and Dave just keep repeating yourselves with no proof and I keep providing proof you ignore....not very sporting. Here's another example, the French centres in the QF:

Vakatawa ...14 runs, 52 metres, 1 clean break, 5 defenders beaten, 1 try

Fickou...9 runs, 72 metres, 3 clean breaks, 3 defenders beaten


So they made clean breaks and scored.

.......


Kerevi vs England.....6 runs 3 clean breaks....no crash ball there.


And here's the clincher....in 32 runs in the knockouts Allende made 2 clean breaks. Kerevi made more in 6 runs! Allende does not breach the defence he runs into the defence!


Dec 20, 2019, 18:06

So lets see how Mozart's past centers shaped up,  

*   The first one he has been writing praise songs about for years was Frans Steyn

*    The net one was Basteraud

*    Then we got Kuridrani

*    Then we got Kerevi

*     Last year it was Slade,

Other than Slade the other players all have the same attributes - they are pace-deficient and all  pf them has serious defense deficiencies.         

Dec 20, 2019, 19:51

Ok Moz here goes which proves my point. It’s easy to pick one game with above average centre stats and tell us this is the norm.

Dig deeper and the true picture emerges

Let’s look at all the WC QF games which will give us a true picture of the art of centre play in the modern game

Wales vs France (20-19)

13. Watkin 7 runs 15m gained 2CB 0DB - average 2.3m per run

12. Parkes 9 runs 25m gained 2CB 1DB - average 2.7m per run

13. Vakatawa 14 runs 52m gained 1CB 5DB - average 3.7m per run

12. Fickou 9 runs 72m gained 3CB 3DB - average 8m per run

SA vs Japan (26-3)

13. Am 7 runs 15m gained 2CB 0DB - average 2.1m per run

12. de Allende 9 runs 24m gained 1CB 4DB - average 2.6m per run

13. Lafaela 7 runs 11m gained 0CB 0DB - average 1.5m per run

12. Nakamura 7 runs 4m gained 0CB 1DB - average 0.5m per run

NZ vs Ireland (46-14)

13. Goodhue 8 runs 15m gained 1CB 2DB - average 1.8m per run

12. Lienet- Brown 12 runs 38m gained 2CB 4DB - average 3.1m per run

13. Ringrose 5 runs 5m gained 0CB 0DB - average 1m per run

12. Henshaw 8 runs 14m gained 1CB 4DB - average 1.7m per run

England vs Oz (40-16)

13. Slade 5 runs 34m gained 1CB 1DB - average 6.8m per run

12. Tuilagi 7 runs 26m gained 0CB 1DB - average 3.7m per run

13. Petaia 12 runs 62m gained 3CB 2DB - average 5.1m per run

12. Kerevi 13 runs 30m gained 2CB 4DB - average 2.3m per run

So overall 1.1 clean breaks are made

2.1 defenders are beaten

And an average of 3m a run are made

This is hardly centres ripping through sides now is it?

Comparing de Allende to Kerevi as you keep doing we see that DA gains more metres per run and equals Kerevi in defenders beaten despite having 4 runs less than him. Kerevi has one more clean break thanks to more opportunities with ball in hand

Case closed Moz - centres mostly operate in traffic where defences are damn tight. Any centre gaining a large metres gained count is usually an intercept or a player finding himself in space in broken play - it’s seldom through beating a defender and running the length of the field

Dec 20, 2019, 21:28

So your stats place Allende behind Petaia, Slade, Tuilagi, Leinert-Brown, Fickou, Vakatawa and Parkes in terms of metres per run. Placing Dud 9th or just below the mid point of QF centres. 

And he acheived that  mediocre result playing the weakest QF team,  with a surfeit of great front foot ball from a dominant pack. What a disappointment! Case closed.

Dec 20, 2019, 22:32

No the stats say nothing of the sort, if one player gains a ruler length more than another per run in a game it’s hardly earth shattering - nice try though Moz

By your take that would place DA ahead of most in the most important stat being defenders beaten which is why he was the best centre in the WC

But that’s not the point of this, the point is that as I keep telling you, modern day centres don’t rip through sides as you maintain they should be.

The game has changed too much in the last few years depriving test centres of the luxury of operating in space

The case remains closed - my stats prove as much

Dec 20, 2019, 23:09

For me 9th among 16 centres in terms of metres per carry corroborates  what my eyes told me. Allende worked for the Boks as a crashballer....the Nienaber defence disguised his poor tackling technique......the Boks media blitz on his behalf did the rest.

He's the same mediocre centre he has always been.

Dec 21, 2019, 00:05

Oh what rubbish one would swear that a metre or so more per carry makes a huge difference.

By your logic it says Kerevi must have really been useless as his metres per run were less than DA’s

Your take on his defence is absolute nonsense. His defence in the WC was huge.

DA is the best 12 in the game right now - there is nothing mediocre about him at all.

Sorry Moz it’s game over here

Dec 21, 2019, 17:29

Anyway to come back to the team Mozart listed,   It remains an unholy mess to be  xpected from him.    He screams and carry on about Kerevi for the past two years, but does not consider defense as a requirement as is evident in this case,   When challenged on that score he went bananas about what he thought was De Allende's deficient tacklng ability - the same BS he spread for years ion site, 

As to Folau - the guy is out of rugby for keeps it seems to me.   He apparrantly approached the Bulls to play for them in Super Rugby and they said NO,   A pity - he is even though Mozart's arse-swipe thinks differently he is indeed a top class full back,

So what next - he selected Barrett at flyhalf despite the fact that he ahs not played test rugby in that position this year,

So lets summarize - he has three of the backline players from Australia - a team he himself claim is not good enough and that was the reason for their loss in the rugby championship.

In the flank position he puts in two regular blinside flanks playing on test level this year,   In one test the imbecile CC claimed Savea played as opensider - it did not take much to see that the team and he himself was defective in that game,

Next selection - both Retallick and Etzebeth are no 4 locks -  but Mozart wants them both in his World 15 team with neither of them having played in the no 5 position on test level ever,  

So why worry - just push in the names of favourite players and forget about performance in the position they routinely play in and make sure that the other players are nowhere in sight,   

Dave I have given up in paying attention to Mozart's BS,    The man is certainly not worth listening to on rugby issues,       

      

Dec 21, 2019, 18:20

Ironical then that you have responded to my views 12 times on this string alone! Face it Wanker, your whole purpose on this Board is to try to contradict me......you probably wake up in the dead of night thinking......'how can I get mozart'. 


Read this from Psychology Today....and recognize yourself:


THE DOWNSIDE OF OBSESSION

At its worst, obsession is an iron mask that permits us to gaze in only one direction at one thing—or, to use another metaphor, a giant tidal wave that crashes through our minds and washes away all other concerns. We may become obsessed with a person, a place, a goal, a subject—but obsession amounts to the same thing in all cases: addiction.

At first, like all addictions, obsession is intoxicating. It fills us up, and what a relief that feeling is (especially if we felt empty before). But even if we didn't feel empty, obsession makes us feel potent, capable, and purposeful.

.......

Do you feel potent Tokkie, even if you are machine enhanced....you stupid old coot



Dec 21, 2019, 22:17

Moz I wake up in the night thinking about you - am I obsessed to!!!!?

Dec 21, 2019, 23:17

Hahahaha......well Dave when you get a bit older like 72 and you wake up at all, you'll think you've dodged a bullet!

Dec 21, 2019, 23:43

My guess is that your magazine is fully loaded

One of my best mates is your age and I don’t see him as old, shit he only stopped playing rugby 5 or 6 years ago

Is as hard as nails

 
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