Struggling against Ireland and France - bwhaaahaaaa
Struggling against Ireland and France - bwhaaahaaaa
Since 2018 …two wins/one loss against France….one win/three losses against Ireland.
Context against Ireland might help
We are anything but struggling against them
As for France - we are just simply not struggling against them
Yes context is we played one game in Ireland, two in South Africa and one on neutral turf.
France: 29 to 26 2018….26 to 30 in 2022….29 to 28 in 2023.
Aggregate score France 84/Boks 84…..let me rephrase my original statement, we are struggling against France and losing against Ireland.
And yet . . . the Springboks have won the last two RWCs in a row and become the first team to ever win 4 RWCs . . . while Ireland have never made it past the quarters.
I'll take the occasional test loss to the Irish . . .
The Springboks has managed to put a Forward strangle hold on The opposition .
This specific group of players mostly managed to force there playing style on the game and they know how to win.
It’s ugly, but it works. The down side is it will mostly end up in a arm wrestle.
Our Backline play only comes to the fore front, when the opposition makes mistakes and we can counter attack.
Ireland has learnt the best out of all the teams to play this style of Rugby and therefore are able to beat us.
The AB are not far off, but they are still struggling to finish the game out and The Boks will win.
The constellation is definitely going to change when this Bok core group starts imploding/ to Old to compete.
And I am not sure that this Rassie model will still be working and will the new crop of players be able to adapt to it?
Sooner or later this game style, might be completely out dated. Then what? The neglect of not fully using a Attack coach like Browne to Balance our style of play, will not count in our favour.
Like I said years ago, every dog has its day.
We had a run of 12-13 years where we were head and shoulders above everyone else but only an idiot will think that would continue unchanged.
As the game has shown at some stage someone will come up with a game plan that changes the way the game is played.
Some of the young AB forwards will be a force three years from now. I think you have lost a bit of backline leadership, one player could change that. The thing that has changed in the competitive landscape is the maturing of rugby amongst players of color in RSA. This is a dynamic new player pool that’s getting stronger by the year.
The rivalry will only get more absorbing as these trends play out. This year works for the Boks but we have our own issues with an old team..
No side will ever dominate the game for an extended period like the old days
The global nature of the game plus the science involved means all the sides at the top are of a similar strength
Mozart
Better adviice - forget about the illustrious career of some All Blacks before 2015 and compare their actual performances by 2015. Most of the players involved started their international career before 2007 and wn everything since 2004 - when in 2004 the lst the RC on point difference and then went out of the 2007 RWC against France due to what the AB supporters still complain about - an obvious forward pass leading to a French try. Ater 2007 they won virtually everything - included the RWC by one point agaist the French. By 2014 signs were the elderly were starting to lose steam and for the first time in years they lost - despite the presence of Matfield - against the Springboks. They did not win the 2015 Rugby Championship and had to play a BS Springbok team fielded by Meyer by 2 points - a game that the Springbks could have won if Matffield was kept off the ground.
The moral of the story is that by 2015 the illustrious All Blacks players were in serious decline and when an assessment is done - the performances in tests in 2015 is the only actual norm that should be used if comparison to the present team of the AB's. The BS spreading Mozart lost the plot already by not looing at actual performances in the 2015 All Black players and compare them with present AB players, That would and should be the only norm used - but as is normal with Mozart he remains the most stupid and prejudiced performance analysis ever.
So his analysis in starting this threat is of the same value as the shit I flushd down the toilet just now.
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NZ was lucky that we had so many once in a generation players at the same time.
Especially DC, greatest rugby player so far by a country mile.
The rest were up there , maybe not the best ever in their positions but bloody close to it.
We are blessed with choice in our front five, got a few issues in the loose, strong depth at 9 with our young boys such as Roigard, Ratima and Hotham. Major issue is at 10.
It's our backs that we have our biggest issues which has always been our biggest strength.
And this year our bench has been absolute mud, not sure what is going on there. Still better issues now gives us time to sort it before 2027
Tamaiti Williams is a good prospect and so is Wallace satiti. TW really gave Malherbe a go In Cape Town.
And satiti with his powerful runs will certainly be a hand full. I think Razor is the right guy to take this group forward.
Flyhalf might be a problem if DMac does not settle, but I think he will.
I'm not so sure, he has had plenty of time to take ownership but too flakey at times. A position we have been spoilt in for so long but at the moment we have SFA unfortunately.
Mounga is no DC but we desperately need him back
The ABs won't dominate the Boks again in the near future. The URC momentum for the SA sides, SA schools becoming ever more sophisticated in their approach, more and more players of colour coming through...balanced against NZ that are for all intents and purposes now virtually isolated in competition outside of Tests.
Unless NZ make a plan and/or SA politics really screws up SA rugby, I can't see NZ reliving the Carter days again soon.
No side will dominate ever again - the top 9 sides are pretty closely matched with one or two that will slip in cycles like Oz and Wales right now
Oz is completely gone. They won't be a force ever again. Wales might get a player or two and be pretty competitive but that's the best they'll do. It's France, England, Ireland, the Boks and NZ.
But then, this Irish side are just very well coached. Their players aren't too special. The Iriah never really have a squad with many special players in it. Even from the current crop, hardly any would get into the Bok squad.
England have the club depth to put together a very good team from time to time. And they're a smart sporting nation too. Always there or there about. And not too long ago they did put together a record equaling win streak. I still put my money on them ahead of Ireland and France if we're talking about coming up with a side that can have a good five years of dominating everyone and losing only occasionally.
For me, it's France, SA, and NZ. Those are the three with the right stuff to be dominant. But France never has been truly dominant even though they seem to have all the ingredients. They just can't muster the sustained coherence the England can from time to time. Hence they are behind England, for me, despite having more of the ingredients that I'd consider as required for prolonged dominance.
So at the end, we are still left with only two countries that actually have conveyer belts of talent and the presence of mind/will/determination/arrogance...SA and NZ.
...and NZ are in for some tough years ahead. There is no way they can dominate in this era while playing against shyte franchises all year long.
Even the best boxer will tell you, were he to spar against second rate opposition, he's worse on fight night for it.
I mean, maybe NZ can build world dominance by sharpening their teeth amongst their top four sides within NZ...but it doesn't seem likely. You spar with the same opposition over and over, regardless of how good they are, and you become too easy to read...and just as importantly, you struggle to read new opposition when you encounter it.
I dunno, but to me, SA are sitting very very pretty at the moment. Money, perpetual depth, varied and tough competition, growing professionalism at all levels, and exploding interest in the game...there are more reasons but I think I've made my point.
Does anyone disagree?
Oz and Wales will be back
And screw, I may as well go full philosophical at this point.
I used to play a ton of strategy games. And when I look at what the current Boks are, I have to give Rassie credit for seeing the worth of adding a shaman to his ranks instead of another fully armoured knight.
I don't rate Siya as a player, really. He's relatively middle of the road, for me.
Everybody else picks their best 15.
But Rassie picked Siya as captain, and to my mind, whether he intended it or not, Siya has ended up providing an intangible that has elevated the Boks to something they wouldn't have been without him as captain.
In real time strategy game terms, he adds that +2 to the morale score of the other 14 men on the field. Which is over all more valuable than were the best out and out flanker picked instead and somebody else the captain.
I doubt I'll ever know exactly why Siya was made captain. And I know this will make Dave jizz in his shorts but it's possible that...
1) Rassie was smart enough to spot that intangible. 2) Had the presence of mind to weigh the pros and cons and summise that his side would be better with that intangible despite losing some ability in the process. 3) Decided to add a multiplier to that intangible by making Siya the captain. 4) And lead from the top down to ensure that the environment was conducive to nurturing, receiving and growing the intangible as well as the effect it has.
See, Dave...it's possible to make an argument for Rassie without sounding like a complete poes.
Haha yeah, I should have alcohol more often. In case an explanation for the ramblings was required.
The All Blacks still have their days when they look better than the rest, but they are just less consistent nowadays. The forward pack should get better as long-standing players have been replaced.
Ireland is the most cohesive unit which gives them quick ruck ball. Also, players never get isolated and always have support runners giving options to keep the ball alive.
They have some very good players but they lack outright pace. New Zealand exposed this weakness in the WC quarter-finals.
Although Ireland arguably overplayed their first-choice players by playing the best starting team for each pool phase instead of trying to peak for the knockout stages.
Plum I like your take and it makes sense in terms of Rassie seeing the value in Siya as the captain not just in that tangible sense but also the intangible. One of Rassie’s strengths is identifying golden nuggets and Siya is just that.
There is something about Siya the man that draws you in, he is very likeable and there is something very authentic about him. Just look at the reaction of every opponent that embraces him after the game.
The only part I disagree with you on is his ability as a player. I’m a huge fan of Siya the player - for me he is by far our best openside albeit not your fetching type.
Admittedly we are not blessed with a long line of openside candidates which makes Siya’s job of standing out a little easier
Kwagga is your all round openside but far more impactful off the bench, having never set the world on fire starting
Nice post Plum. Like many decisions that look brilliant in retrospect, I suspect the logic may have been found after the idea had already succeeded…but no matter.
Moz trust you to spin a negative
Dave n mdern sport te funding of professionals remain a major compoment of the viability of the sport. This is where the major problem is with rugby at present.
In th case of New Zealand and Australia the decision of New Zealand made a massive mistake when theykicked SA and Argentina out of Super Rugby and that negative had major impact on fundig of rugby in Australia and in New Zealand. In the case of Austalia the damage and will be ard to get rugby back on track. In New Zealand the damage resulted in profssional players leaving NZ clubs and plyteir trade in Japan and France more tan in other countries.
The ther act is that spectatos want to watch competitive rugby and with te rset scenario spectators ar not rally interested in one-sided rugby and that s largely the case at present. The the other teams at present in Super Rugby cannot compete against te NZ teams/ So in essense with competitivnes reduced so are the opprtuities for players coming through the system detrimentally affected.
Taking into accout the above - the copetitivenes of the national team is effected as well.
In the case of England it seems to me that some of the premier league clubs are in financial trouble as well, The fact eems to be that the cash cow system needs to be inroduced and that may be or ngland to run the system like SA is doing at present to play for the Curry Cup and o have 4 Frnachises that compete in the URC/ In SA major funding of rugby of the national and franchise teams became te caaah cow that keeps the local provincial teams operational/
Another aspect i the player resources issue, I saw comments from foreign obseres that the feeding resources of SA Rugby is "scary". From the are lasting until about 2018 Rugby was not really a sport of iterest of the Black comunity, Selection of Black and Coloured players in the Springk team was o the one hand regarded as quota players and on the other hand as token represetatves, However, since 2018 the situation was turned around totally and now we have really good and top class players coming through to the Springbok team playing in varied positions. As stated the country has player resources far exceeding those of other rugby countries/
/ . . . . .
Moz
It was more than likely happenstance. It's very difficult to assume anyone could be smart enough predict an outcome when so many variables are involved...particularly social ones.
The question I have is, what happens when you actually have a best in position player with the same shamanic level social attributes that Siya has?
I was trying to think whether such a player exists.
As I ran various options though my mind...for some unknown reason or sarcastic reason, Owen Farrell popped into my head.
I burst out laughing.
I mean, no explanation required. Compare those two humans to each other and the life lessons pretty much teach themselves haha.
shamanic .......................... wtf. u smoking broer ?
Don’t really trust a guy with connection to the Otherworld :) Kollisi is a favourable Captain because so many people from different backgrounds/ Walks of life can identify with him.
And the Bonus is that he sometimes has a good Rugby game. So I can fully believe Tassels picking him because of his popularity.
On a player level though, there is better options in players to pick for a ageing Siya . Roos possibly? But a Cameron Hanekom is the more likely replacement.
LOL Blo...
It's a reference. I don't mean that Siya is a shaman lol!!!
In real time strategy games, the shaman is an archetypical type character that may not be the best fighter on his own but he buffs(improves) the strength of the other units(players) on his team.
"A character like this plays the crucial role of a **force multiplier** in battle, enhancing the overall strength and effectiveness of the army through their buffing abilities, even if they aren't a formidable fighter themselves. By empowering nearby units with increased damage, defense, speed, or other stat boosts, this character ensures that the entire group performs far better than they would alone. Their value lies in elevating the army as the combined force of the buffed units significantly outweighs the individual contribution of any single soldier."
Just because you don't understand a reference, doesn't mean it's nonsense.
Mpower
You and Mozart suppsely saw videos that I posted about try=-scorin i he last five yers. The vried game now played is vastly dfferet from waht was played since 1992 by the Springboks - but you rfuse to recognize i and long for the waythe Springboks flop for many years, Even the 2007 WC was a lucky draw that got the Springbks to win the trophy - they never played any ams ranked higher than them in world rugby in 2007.
In 2023 the Springbks played all four teams ranked highr than them and it was ugly rugby - but they still won the trophy. Now Erasmus appointed Brown as attck coch and you refuse to see what si really in eidveddence and sill akeep ahrping about how bad De Allende si nd how good a rally under-performing Esterhuizen. You harp about Kolisi - but he is not likely to play many more tests and the same goes for Pollard.- they are likely to add to the coaching set-up s specia;ist advisers.
In the end one wonders that snce accordig t you and Mozart Eramus is a coaching retard - who do you wan to coach he Springbok team - just give us the name and tell as why you support your recomended coach.
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Stop fabricating BS Spreading Uncle C. I have always given Rasse credit for making us a Formidable Forward Pack again.
But I am not happy with the Team rebuilding, creating depth/player selections. We are also slow on actually implementing a change in our playing style.
It doesn’t mean that criticism is always bad and everyone has there own views. Besides that, please provide some proof of your allegation’s.
The two main thing that have turned Bok rugby around is firstly we have a top flight rugby brain in charge and a coach whose motivational skills are second to none.
Secondly we have the contribution of the Black and Coloured players. This contribution has been mainly felt in the backs but some very good black forwards have emerged eg Ox
Black and coloured backs have made a very significant difference
Who would complain if the following backline represented the Boks:
Williams, Sascha.
Willemse and Am
Moodie, Kolbe and Fassi
The combination of Afrikaner forward power and the speed and running ability of black backs is a very potent combo. As I noted years ago. Not that white backs wont continue to make a contribution.
All this is contributing to our depth.
The biggest threat we face is going going back to second and third rate coaches.
Yes no side stays on top forever but I think as long as we have top class coaches the Bok should do significantly better in future years.
Mpower
Stop the dramtcs and p;ease tell us whom you want to replace Ersmus?,
Normally it would be the successor he is grooming…but oops….he hasn’t groomed anybody. Brown is useful though, there is no chance a foreigner would be acceptable as head coach…so no threat there. My guess is it will be Stick with Vermeulen as the real coach, just as he was the real captain.
What is likely to happen is whst you would "think".will not happen. When last have you think anthing bar BS. Your thinking has ben constantly negative and 100% wrong. If you said that Erasmus is busy preparing a new group of poential replacements after 2027 is that Erasmus is likely to revent to him being revering to he job of Director of Rugby and that he is in the meantime is usind the situation where Vermeulen - soo to be joined by Kolisi and by 2026 Pollard would gain coaching experience under Erasmus and from those three the Head Coach, and the backline or forward coach would come.
Stick is already effectively been sidelined and your comments are again BS. If Erasmus is not traning anyone as you claim - then why has Erasmus moved Vermeulen into the coaching set-up and announced that Kolisi would follow him and so will Pollard. They are partly there because they showed skill in playing and having the abiliy to take over they get training in the coaching field, Nienaber was giving opportunity to get independence as coach in his own and may also be coming back into the Springbok coaching set-up after working with Easmus for more than 4 years.
So your "...oops he has not groomed anybody" is the BS you normally dream up and spout on site. How many more people you want to be groomed - one is already there and two others are to follow - but Erasmus is not paying attention to his successor stuation. It should rather be "oops I am talking shit again" as expected.
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It's actually staggering, Mpower...
That Roos and Henekom can be sidelined and the Boks remain unstoppable.
It lends strength to Moz's argument that much of what we may be seeing from the Boks is down to sheer talent.
I'm a semi Rassie fan, but I don't believe that he gets the best out the talent we have.
I always talk about it, but imagine Swys as coach of this group of players? The way the Lions played under Swys, I imagine that, but swapping out those Lions with man-for-man better players. I actually think the Boks would be untouchable...by anyone.
Yes plum it is this group of players that has gelled over a long time and know how to win.
They have a specific way and will grind it out. I think the likes of Cameron and Roos should be more involved.
Hahahahaha so this is the new way to belittle Rassie. These Mamparas are forced to admit Rassie gets results. It can't be because he is a great coach so what can it be. After months nay years of thinking the Mamparas led by mampara in Chief mozzietard now say it's because all because Rassie has so much talent at his disposal. Never mind that just prior to Rassie taking over that tskebtvwasnykt achieving much.
Never mind that they claimed Bok stalwarts like Alkende, Du Toit, Malherbe and others including Kolisi. Nyankanye, Koch, Reunsch and a number of others along the way have been severely criticised. How many times have heard from these keyboard experts that Rassie has made bad selections ie the Bok players He selected were poor players.
Hahahahahaha hilarious nonsense from these arch buffoons!
Try again lads. It's back to the drawing boards once again. 
45,726 posts
So HM was derided for losing to the ABs in the WC semi, while Rasmus was a genius by narrowly beating the 2024 ABs at home. Here are the two sides and the best player picks:
2024…………..2015
Jordan…………BenSmith……………..15
Reece…………Milner-Skudder……...15
Ioane…….….Conrad Smith………...15
Barrett……….Nonu……………….……..15
Tele’a………..Savea……………………..15
McKenzie…..Carter………………..……15
Ratima……..Aaron Smith……….…..15
Williams…….Moody…………………….24
Taylor…………Coles………………………Even
Lomax……...Franks…………………….15
Barrett………Retallik…………………….15
Vai’i………....Whitelock……………….15
Sititi………….Kaino……………………….15
Cane.,………McCaw…………………….15
Savea……….Read………………………….Even
So two choices which could go either way, one player out of the current team who would have made the 2015 NZ team and 12 slots where the 2015 team was better. Leaders in 2015 were Ben Smith, Nonu, Carter, Retallik, Whitelock, McCaw and Read. In 2024 Savea, Cane and the Barrett’s, another massive edge to 2015.
There is no doubt 2015 was a much higher hurdle….we are benefitting from the weakness in Aus and NZ our direct competitors. And struggling against Ireland and France, the teams that have improved.