I can't believe that we use to believe that any southern hemisphere team would easily put 50 points past any club team from Europe, but the opposite is actually true. 

I would think the bools would destroy Northampton with the heat as well as the altitude but it was the opposite. So many handling errors and poor decisions. 

The Guppies had a decent team on the park with some fringe boks but they do got given a harsh lesson.

I didn't have much hope for the Stormers as they are poor travellers, but it looked like a scratch amateur team. 

Only two players put their hands up which were Hanekom and Hooker.

I'm starting to question whether we have as many good players as we think we do. 

Players up north are far better conditioned these days and you can tell in how professional they are. 

I also wonder if it is a hit of a world cup hangover and players have stopped working and just over confidence. 

Anyway, just hope SA teams can save the rest of their season 

Well at least the Lion's won

Indeed KC

The conveyer belt might be partly built from myth.

For me, the only saving grace is that we have SA players all over the place. So I guess the Boks are a closer reflection of where we are at than our club sides are.

But that's the only consolation I can't think of.

...and regardless of how many guys we have playing in so many foreign teams, I've not been impressed with the younger forwards that have come through for the Boks. A couple of good ones but not they've failed to shine.

Wiese, apparently dumb muscle, is the only one that has really stood up and claimed a position.

This is a worrying sign for SA sides. I personally do not think it’s the players but lack of coaching structures. Especially skills training.

The platform the European players get is just more professional. They are better coached.

The Saints team was mostly unrecognised players. The same can be said for the Harlequins and Leicester Tigers.

So it must come down to Coaching or as KC mentioned the Professionalism. How Can it be all of a sudden that we are so far of??

The coaching methods that we have at Springbok level, should be implemented more at Franchise level.

Couldn't agree more with MPower. It is not because Saints are no names, they have some excellent youth talent have performed really well the last few seasons. I think the won last year or came close. They some electric runners and we saw how easy they turned the bulls over. 

Andy Goode who was commenting said that in his days players were rugby players, but today these players are athletes than can play rugby. I would say that if SA players way back when that they were very athletic but didn't have the same skills as the kiwis, but the English club players now pocess the both. 

Don't forget a couple of years ago our A team lost to both Munster and Bristol 2nd teams in a mid week game. 

I almost believe our players abroad are way better than those at home because how good the clubs are. 

Then you look at the Rubble coming from Jake's bools, all young players hut can't close our games. Sharks has been a lucky box, Stormers are dropping fast and their obsession with hot steppers. Then lions are a still 4 years out of being a proper unit 

South Africa has many players all over the world. Some of the players in the current SA club sides would not make these teams if SA could choose from all of its talent pool.

All the more credit to Rassie.

That said, the Stormers have serious injury problems effecting their performance.

It also seems sides playing the Tigers rest their top players?

That’s not true that the Saints fielded unknown players ! 

The back three are the current England back three for starters !! 

Apologies for the above.

For some reason I thought Pakie had made the post.

Replacing our tight five is looming like the US budget deficit.

Theeis one hing Mpower write baove - our coaching is onann unbelevable poor qualiy.   ith the player th Buslls and Sharks  have one xpces much btte performanses - buyt the Buls dos not play a a tram,    The one outstanding playe was Hanekom = but heuy nee a team to play  - not 15 individuals, 

A othe S haks - they also t key plays through inkuy mos be back to be soon.   I sw the S harks did not play Esterhuizen yesteday despite the fact he is not on their injury list - if he played the loss would actuall have been worse,

I know had a long list of injured players and players they wanted to rest,    What they did was the fact tat the ad the weakest eam ever playing for the Stormers,    Thy must have not chose he front players yesterday and might have kept them back to play the Lions in he URC match coming up on Saturday.         

Becs not all of saints players are well known. Quite a few are new and not so well known.

But yet they can put together a winning performance and be competitive.

So it’s not a insult rather a compliment and testament of good coaching structures in Europe club level.

No, they’re not all well known but it’s not true to say they’re a bunch of unknowns. 

So 50% of the team was recognised test players then??

Eleven players are full internationals. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/dec/14/leicester-sharks-champions-cup-rugby-union-match-report

Don’t treat players like robots’: Sharks coach hits out after Leicester thrashing

Could it be that our success is based on a brill iant coach and a handful of world class players. Ie it's paper thin. 

Or do we have real depth but due to injuries, poor coaching and players playing overseas we are struggling.

Which is it oaks?

I question whether the European cup isn’t a step too far for SA teams. It is one thing playing in the same time zone and another when having to fly so many times. Looks like SA can’t catch a break. We use to kaon because of the time zones and jet lag, but now our teams are flying 6 times a year and sometimes in economy via the Middle East. 

I don’t think SA can find a solution, we just have to accept it of simply withdraw from the cup as we can’t get momentum when one week we travel to with a b team and the expect our A team to perform with ring rust. 

The only solution I can think of is for SA teams to be based up north for 2 months. Find a good location that is easy to travel from and train from. Bring their families along and spend 3 months of the year in Europe. Create community of all SA teams being together and maybe it will feel a bit more like home. 

I almost think it would be cheaper than all those flights. That way we can get the travel out of the way, settle into one place and then just travel home. 

However, we would need to persuade both the European cup and URC to adjust the schedule. I would do it during the later from Nov until Feb when the 6 nations kicks in. 

There are many holiday villages that you can rent with great facilities. 

Most of these players are in their 30s and rugby players these days prefer to go abroad. 

It will also be better for our home fans to have a proper season with week in and week out games. 

I would almost play our domestic games and combine the Currie cup with the URC pool with invitational teams. 10 weeks of rugby between Aug, Sept, Oct and then travel to the North from Nov to Feb, come home and all teams take a break for 2 months before taking a run towards the finals and knock outs. For June to July a break. Boks will play, but could start later or start their rest period sooner to get a proper break. But this current setup doesn’t work