Welcome back, Deus.
I was hoping you'd be back for the festivities.
I take it you caught that episode of The Breakdown after we trounced them at Twickers?
Welcome back, Deus.
I was hoping you'd be back for the festivities.
I take it you caught that episode of The Breakdown after we trounced them at Twickers?
No, I didn't, but I did watch the test. Unfortunately, a good friend of mine passed away a couple of weeks ago, so my appetite for any sport has been rather weak. Still, it'd be hard to miss a WC entirely.
Great to have you back
France really deserve congratulations in beating the AB's/ I was too conservative I predicted that France would beat the AB's by 7 points,
This essentially would not be that the AB's are out fo the WC altogether. However, the only team won the WC after losing in the Round Robin stage of the tourament an went on to win the WC was South Africa in 2019. The SA loss was in fact to their advantage since the Quarterfinal was against Japan
It is likey that France will go into the quarterfinal stage as the winner in their group and the AB's as te number 2 team. However - it is clear that the road to the final for the AB's will become increasingly difficult when it comes to the play-off stages of the tournament.
Sympathy with you for as to losing of a good friend of yours.
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France too good in the end as again ill discipline cost the ABs big time. ABs clearly better in first half but penalties kept France in it. Foster needs to sort out this continual infringing if we are to go much further in the tournament. Could have been a lot worse as I’m sure that pass to Talea for our 2nd try was a mile forward!!
Never caught that…kudos for admitting it. Moolaa I listened to Foster’s interview…maybe he is different with the players, but there’s just no fire.
Congrats to France. ABs did fairly well early but could not get the ball into French half, once the penalties started, then the yellow card it was too much for them to overcome. Some good signs but it's a tough loss.
Sorry to hear that, Deus.
I'm sure you'll see your friend again one day.
Well, all not lost. We lost to you ABs last Cup and came back.
Thanks Moz, Mike, and Plum. One thing that still strikes me is that there still isn't that one killer of an international side at present. It really is the most open cycle of rugby I can recall. In some respects, soft. We still have a shot, if we can make it past the first knockout game. I feel that this WC is going to be harder on the front end. We'll take Scotland for sure, and we'll likely take Ireland too. It's that third big test that is the hard one. We also have Tonga, who are by far the most physical and violent of the islanders. It could be tricky.
When the gap closes, as we've all be saying it is doing, then those killer teams would by default be rarer.
I think it's good for the game.
Less forgone conclusions makes it more watchable for everyone.
That might just be the most Marxist thing I've ever said.
Sorry to hear about your Friend Deus….The French was good Ton, but not unbeatable….there Forward Dominance created the necessary pressure for the AB to crack….the Bok Forward pack on the other hand, will be much better equipped for the Task….a Rampant Bok Pack will be hard to stop this WC.
Indeed excellent Le Bleus.
Deus understand just how you feel...lost my best friend since early school days too this year, very unexpectantly.
You are a good lad with depth and can think for yourself. My condolences.
What a boring game, struggled to stay awake for most of it. To much ping pong kicking. All blacks did the most attack in the first half.
A lot of French players just stood on the half way line with their hands on their knees. So France did look really tired after only 20 min.
But looks like New Zealand fell into the same trap trying to run from everywhere. They had nothing left in the last 20 min.
Not sure Richie is the answer at 10. Looks good with ball in hand but often results to nothing. Reminds a lot Elton Jantjies. His kicking was terrible too. I would drop him for the next match. Bring Barret back at 10 and move Will Jordan to 15 where he belongs
I'll put my neck out for a Ireland Springbok final...last night was a total let down...ja ja, I know things can turn around quickly in rugby, but this isn't the same French side as a year ago and I don't have the foggiest what's going on with NZ..
I think Ireland and Argentina will step up to the plate...pity Scotty is in our and Ireland's group.
Deus talking nonsense yet again.
Rugby has never been as physical as it is today. Training methods have advanced and today play is faster and harder. This incidently is the trend in all sports. Competition just keeps growing.
Deus made one of the daftest comments ever made on this forum when he said the Boks, the second ranked team in tbe World, have a glass jaw and soft underbelly. Really!!
Name me one soft glass jaw type in tbe Bok pack of Kitshoff, Marx, Malherbe, Eben, Snyman, Kolisi, Vermuelen and Du Toit.
Deus and Plum are correct about NZ lacking good competition now we don't okay Super Rugby.
I said this would be the case when discussion arose here about us playing in a NH comp. Financially also they were losing tbe country providing most of the money.
As for the wee abs, they have a strong rugby tradition and will rise again. I don't buy the line they are in a permanent decline, neither are they out of the RWC just yet.
One wonders where the solution is for the ABs.
That coach wasn't the right pick when Hansen retired. I believe most of the Kiwis didn't want him.
Perhaps some of the new chaps coming through might refresh the side?
But what do they do about the their franchise situation?
Perhaps I'm panicking early and on their behalf, but playing Ozzie and Island club teams isn't the answer. So what do they do?
All I know is, I'm mega-chuffed the Saffa teams are in Europe. Everything about it has been a win for us.
For fans, we get go see games a normal times.
Players are earning more.
Good players playing in Europe are no longer being ignored at Bok selection time.
We're learning much more about Euro refs and how to manage them.
There is far less cheating(the difference is so clear). I remember watching that first URC season and having to adjust how I viewed the game because I was constantly waiting for the shenanigans that I was so used to seeing in SR, and it never happened. Perhaps nobody agrees with me but in my view there's an unmistakable difference.
The question I do have regards the benefit to the Euro teams of having us in their competitions. I'm not sure what the average fan or player there thinks but I do wonder if they see us being there as a net benefit.
Plum, it wasn't cheating but they have strong bias agaist us...they don't like our combative attitude in general, yet they love playing against us for the very same reason...love hate relationships are the best.
To my mind, if you admit that your teams "plays to the edge of the rules" then you are openly stating that you are cheating until you're caught.
But Draad, do you not see a difference between the UEC teams and how they play versus the Kiwi sides back in SR?
It could be my bias, but for me the difference is day and night.
Yes, I see it...entitled way of playing...always p!$$ed me off...like Tradhole, their way is the way it's supposed to be played and everyone should agree better than everyone else attitude, but they're not all like that...NZ has some solid rugby folk...miss the rivalry, but I'm also loving the URC.
They called it "street smart". Those were the days of New Zealand simply and blatantly breaking the laws. I recall the Kiwis saying that it the Boks could get away with things, then I'd turn a blind eye. It turns out that this isn't true at all. Rugby looks like a lot of back scratching. I see the leniency we have received with reffing (the least penalised team for many, many years) as currying favour.
Yeah, I agree Draad. Kiwis are predominantly good rugby people.
The problem is that at some point, under Richie, they go this idea that it's only wrong if you get caught.
I always felt that was a bad example for kids and bad for the game.
It was an excuse. New Zealand were heavily gifted for an entire cycle. The Boks are currently the beneficiaries in like manner. The question is this: what dealings are going on behind closed doors? Where there is money, there is corruption. Rugby Union needs a thorough clean out.
The question I do have regards the benefit to the Euro teams of having us in their competitions. I'm not sure what the average fan or player there thinks but I do wonder if they see us being there as a net benefit.
In Ireland we are delighted to have you onboard. It is the saviour of URC as the Welsh are a mess.
Sorry but I’m flabbergasted you guys think that the ABs blatantly cheated for many years while the “Sacred Boks” apparently never transgressed the laws!
You guys simply had to find an excuse as to why a country with far less player numbers could continually pound your team into submission.
Dirty pool guys. Look within when you are beaten, not without. The ABs are going through this examination right now…….
Ok, Moola...
Give us your interpretation of "playing to edge of the law".
Keeping in mind that playing within the laws is something different.
So if your interpretation of that phrase is simply to "play within the laws" then there was no need for a new and redundant term.
Playing to the edge of the laws is using all your skills to advantage. Still doesn’t explain why you think it’s only the ABs play to that extent! All teams do it FFS!
Shall I start with Bakkies indiscretions, the Beast’s shoulder charge to the head of the Mighty McCaw, Le Roux’s eye gouge on Fitzy back in the day? And we don’t want to get into the Boks continual and convenient “injuries” in a very unsubtle plan to deliberately slow play down……
Ah, so playing to the edge off the laws actually has nothing to do with the laws.
Why is not then simply called playing to your potential...or playing as well as you can...or using all your skills.
Seems strange to invoke the word laws when laws having nothing to do with it, doesn't it?
Look Moola, at the end of the day, like I said previously, I noticed a stark difference when we entered the URC. Many others have noticed it too. Everybody else is supposedly crazy, right?
At the end of the day you can call it all the usual, like jealousy, coping, or whatever else, but the fact is it's clear.
Let's bring a up a golden oldie. That of kicking players in the face when you go for a high ball. I said I saw Kiwis doing it, that nobody else was doing it. Every Kiwi in here told me I was mad, jealous, coping...and guess what, the first player ever to be sent off for intentionally kicking another player in the face while catching a high ball...was a Kiwi. For reference, Ben Smith's teams mate. Ben Smith himself being one of the biggest perpetrators of the king-fu catch...and the guy I initially called out for it. You'll have a hard time convincing me that none of that is related and that it's all organic.
Surprisingly, after that incident, all of a sudden, nobody was doing it anymore. Now that is a perfect example of playing to edge of the laws. Doing something that is against the laws until you get in trouble for it.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. That's the kind of thing we did not see other teams doing. That's the kind of thing that happened under Richie while Kiwis convinced themselves it was fine...and claimed was totally normal when somebody brought it up. I can pull up posts here where I lay out quite clearly that it's completely abnormal to take a high ball like that.
...where I'm then told that it's simply a player "protecting himself" while going up for a catch.
Anyway, now you guys can play "to the edge of the laws" against Ozzie and Island opposition until the cows come home. It's clearly doing wonders for ya.
The difference with Bakkeis is...Saffas were the main people calling him a dirty player.
We were under no illusion that he was squeaky clean.
Again, I can bring up numerous post from this very board as proof.
Or you could simply ask us and I don't think one of us would make a single excuse for him.
Here, I'll give you my opinion. He was a good player but he didn't need to play as dirty as he did. He was often reckless and intentionally far beyond the line of what is acceptable. Eben is the type of enforcer lock that we can fully appreciate and a better man than Bakkies.
Big difference bud.
https://drop.download/eau6gbsi6psh/Rugby.World.Cup.2023.09.08.France.Vs.New.Zealand.480p.x264-mSD.mkv.html
Sorry Plum, not buying your bullshit I’m afraid. Ludicrous to suggest the ABs are somehow cheating when nobody else is! Obviously I’m not going to change your opinion but please note it’s not fact, still only your opinion…..
Well, partially.
What is fact is that I did call the Kiwi kung-fu at the time.
Your lot did deny it while chucking many insults.
A kiwi is the first player ever sent off for kicking someone in the face.
Normally this would be cause for self-reflection.
Well, normally, but the Shire ain't no normal place.
The difference Plum, was that everything I cited for New Zealand was unpunished. We were punished and slandered. In fact, during that period New Zealand was at around 54 penalties to every yellow card, whereas we were in the region of 5 to 10. Moola doesn't have a leg to stand on. I recall Fitzpatrick and other pundits watching a clip of Nonu hold two defenders for Smith to run past and score a try and conclude that we were just whiners. That's the level of bias. I don't blame Greyling for lamping McCaw out in 2012.
Did the Beast get carded for his gutless shoulder charge to McCaw’s head? I don’t think so Deus. Unpunished perhaps???….
And to add to that, you watch URC and you see very little of that.
The vast majority of infringements are in the moment or brain farts. The sort of thing one can mostly excuse.
What I despise is premeditated stuff.
Because that speaks to the nature of a side and what thinks of the game.
The notorious get the Jarpy saga was instigated by a New Zealander - the father of Disgraced NZ ref Bryce Lawrence.
The kiwis and also Oz took cheating to a whole new level as I said repeatedly over many years. Who can forget the Oz cheat Stuart Dickinson!
My comments had the very frot Rooitwit in a complete froth.
I also said moving north would benefit our players and franchises financially and in terms of better travel arrangement and of FAIRER REFS
I also warned NZ and Oz of the detrimental consequences of their folly.
I have been correct on ALL accounts.
I also mentioned that there was a possibility of rejoining NZ and OZ at a latter point but very much on our terms and no more disgusting cheating down under refs. This remains a possibility but one that right now is diminishing rather than growing.
Why would we ever go back, Beeno?
As Boorad says, they apparently like having us in the comp, and it seems everyone is benefiting as a result.
A smart move by those involved and long may all parties benefit.
Having lived in Europe for many years, and played sport there for over a decade, in general they value fairness of victory. Their journos are also very harsh on cheating, which ain't always cool because they do sometimes go overboard...but it keeps people honest.
It's not perfect environment, but it's far better than what was going on in SR.
It's not a fairytale ending, but it is better. There's still much corruption etc, but as we learned in 2008, the NH had the integrity and purity of the game at heart. We nearly split into two separate codes over the ELVs. It would have actually been for the best. SANZAR didn't respect us, they just wanted a share of our revenue.
Careful boys, your halos may slip….. Talk about sanctimonious claptrap Hasbeeno. You just can’t handle the overall dominance the ABs have had over the Boks. Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe the Boks were just being outplayed??
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This will be interesting. I can't wait to see what the Kiwi media puts out tomorrow. France were good value for their win. It wasn't perfect, but it was the first high-level test I have seen in several years now. May it be a sign of things to come for the remainder of the tournament. The Kiwis are still potent, even missing some players, but France has another gear, as they clearly showed. The poise and skill under real pressure were a joy to watch. We used to see this kind of rugby in the RC. I'm sure some surprises are in store. This really wasn't one of them to be perfectly honest.