Defenders creating opportunities . . .

Forum » Rugby » Defenders creating opportunities . . .

Sep 18, 2023, 16:12

We're still waiting for our self-proclaimed rugby guru Doos XL to explain to us lesser mortals what he means when he says:

"The Bok defence doesn't create opportunities, sadly."

He did promise us he'd back up all his statements "frame by frame" so I think it's a reasonable expectation that we at least get an explanation even if he can't back up his big talk about video footage. 

If no explanation is forthcoming then it makes a mockery of his other laughable and self-important claim that no-one in the long history of this message board has ever refuted anything he's ever said . . . because it would appear that the reason for that is because whenever he's challenged, he runs away shrieking in terror to his little hole where he trembles and cowers for a few days while he decides whether to admit he has egg all over his smug and pompous face or whether to change his name for the 37th time and come on as someone who hasn't displayed unprecedented rugby ignorance.

Sep 18, 2023, 16:23

Defenders are always the best playmakers and finishers despite not having the ball.

This very same guru, has also stated the Boks have the worst attack and defense out of all top-tiered nations. (Despite being ranked 2nd in the world...which of course is impossible). 

Sep 18, 2023, 17:12

Doosie, Doosie where are you?

Come out to play with us please

Frame by frame

Sep 18, 2023, 18:00

I mean, not to pile on Deus here, but we do have the best rush defence in the game and one would think if any defensive style would create opportunities it's be the rushy one.

Let's see what chat GPT says about a rush defence creating opportunities...

Certainly, here are some bullet points on how a strong defense in rugby can create opportunities for your team:

1. **Line Speed**: - Rapidly advancing defensive line puts pressure on the attacking team, forcing errors or hurried decisions.

2. **Tackling Technique**: - Effective tackling can lead to turnovers by dislodging the ball from the attacker's grip or forcing them into touch.

3. **Counter-Rucking**: - Aggressive rucking at breakdowns can disrupt the opposing team's possession, allowing your team to regain the ball.

4. **Interceptions**: - A well-organized defense can read the opponent's passes and intercept them, initiating counter-attacks.

5. **Pressuring Kicking Options**: - Closing down space for kickers limits their options and may result in a charged-down kick, leading to turnover opportunities.

6. **Forcing Errors**: - Defensive pressure can induce handling errors, knock-ons, or forward passes, giving your team scrums or lineouts.

7. **Kick Returns**: - Securely catching and returning kicks can launch a counter-attack, exploiting disorganized defensive lines.

8. **Defensive Structure**: - A solid defensive structure can create a "wall" that's difficult for the opposition to breach, leading to turnovers.

9. **Lineout Steals**: - Well-timed jumps and coordinated efforts in the lineout can disrupt the opposition's set pieces and provide possession.

10. **Offloading in Contact**: - Skilled defenders can offload the ball to supporting players while in contact, creating attacking opportunities.

11. **Communication**: - Effective communication in defense can lead to quick decisions and coordinated efforts, preventing breaks in the line.

12. **Kick Chase**: - Chasing kicks aggressively can pressure the receiving team, potentially causing handling errors or turnovers.

13. **Scramble Defense**: - Rapidly reorganizing when the defense is breached can prevent tries and buy time for teammates to arrive.

14. **Turnover Ball Strategy**: - Having a game plan for immediately exploiting turnover ball can catch the opposition off guard.

15. **Fitness and Endurance**: - Maintaining defensive intensity throughout the game can wear down the opposition, creating opportunities in the later stages.

16. **Psychological Pressure**: - A relentless and physical defense can demoralize the opposing team, affecting their decision-making.

Remember that a strong defense not only prevents the opponent from scoring but also sets the stage for counter-attacks and turnover opportunities, making it a crucial aspect of rugby strategy.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:02

I mean, fuck me, AI is amazing!

We are so lucky to live in this age.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:27

So ChatGPT is basically confirming what Deus said, ie that a great defense does create opportunities.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:30

Hmmm . . . maybe Doos is an AI bot. It would at least explain his lack of personality . . .

Sep 18, 2023, 18:34

It's the job of the defence to snuff out opportunities, not create them. A leaky defence creates opportunities.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:39

Counter attack is defence turned into attack. (It starts as defence, and becomes attack). 

However, Doos-XL specifically said the Bok defence are "not" creating opportunities. 

So even if we go with defence creating counter-attacking opportunities,
Doos-XL is also saying this is not happening.

How are the Springboks scoring any points then?

Sep 18, 2023, 18:46

Defence obviously can create opportunities, as the AI bit up there amply illustrates. I just started typing out some examples only to see them all covered in that list.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:49

Disagree a powerful defense  creates turnover ball…..and the Boks live off turnover ball.

But the Boks most reliable point scoring mechanism is scrum penalties, followed by maul  tries….I expect that to be the case again in the Irish match with some counter attacking off defensive turnovers if the Irish are forced to open up.

Stick with moz.

Sep 18, 2023, 18:57


The Boks more often use an umbrella defence than a rush defence.

A rush defence is when the defensive line rushes forward aggressively in an attempt to tackle the ball carrier at the gain line. This type of defence is effective against teams that try to play a slow, physical game. However, it can be vulnerable to teams that are able to play at a high speed and move the ball quickly.

An umbrella defence is when the defensive line drops back slightly and spreads out to cover the width of the field. This type of defence is effective against teams that try to play a wide game and move the ball quickly. However, it can be vulnerable to teams that are able to run the ball through the middle of the field.

The Springboks are very good at using both types of defence effectively. They will often switch between rush and umbrella defence depending on the attacking team's strategy.

In recent years, the Springboks have tended to use an umbrella defence more often than a rush defence . This is because many of the top teams in the world now play a wide game and move the ball quickly. However, the Springboks are still very capable of using a rush defence effectively if needed.

Ultimately, the type of defence that the Springboks use will depend on the specific match and the attacking team that they are facing.

Sep 18, 2023, 19:16

Oh, my eyes must be lying to me then because I seem to see the Boks rushing off the line almost all the time.

So much so that they've been accused of being offside lately.

All the ex pros perpetually mentioning the rush defence must also be full of it.

Either way, they're the best exponents of the rush defence and common logic tells you it would create opportunities.

Even it it doesn't result in turnovers, teams keep getting caught behind the advantage line, feel the pressure, make mistakes, and end up conceding penalties and conceding points.

That sounds like opportunity to me.

Sep 18, 2023, 19:22

So, you three picked the wrong vector of the summary of this thread.

Sep 18, 2023, 19:57

I'm guessing ButtPlug didn't understand what Sharkbok tried to explain to him about transitioning from defence into attack.

It's the job of the defending team (that's the team without the ball for the sake of ButtPlug and Doos) to prevent any opportunities. Once they effect a turnover (be that through robust defence or whatever other reason), they become the attacking team and their job now is to create opportunities.

Sep 18, 2023, 20:19

Rooi trying his best to use language to save a silly thread.

Surely you're not serious, Rooi?

This is gonna be like the time I tried to explain the different between probability and possibility to old VisKop.

Sep 18, 2023, 20:28

Of course defenders can create opportunities.  How often has Allende won turnover ball. How about intercepts, How about big tackles that dislodge the ball from the opponents hands. How about line speed creating pressure leading to mistakes by your opponents.

You need to explain why defenders cant create opportunities. Its pretty obvious they can and do.

Sep 18, 2023, 20:47

Against NZ the Boks were using the rush  defense….there were Springboks between the NZ backs negating the pass.

Sep 18, 2023, 21:14

They did the same against Scotland completely nullifying the Russell effect

Poor Russell had no one to pass to, the Boks were in his line

Sep 18, 2023, 21:23

I guess old Rooi just has no idea of causality.

Sep 18, 2023, 21:31

I could be wrong, but I think when the outside center shoots out of the line on defence, the Boks are using an umbrella defense. 
The goal of the umbrella defense is to push the attacking team inwards back towards the forwards.

The outside center runs up first to cut off options for going wide, while the rest of the line runs a standard flat/rush defense behind the 13. (or the inside center is slightly in front of the flyhalf). 
A bit like having 2 or 3 lines - instead of 1 flat line

It can be very effective at closing down attacking movements, but it is high risk if the outside center makes a mistake. 

I think that is what RassNabber sees in Kriel in the 13 position. It is not just tackling, but the tactics of where he needs to be in relation to the rest of the defense. 


A rush defense uses the touchline as the last defender and pushes the attack wide and away from the forwards. This is more suited to defending against a team that is playing 10-man rugby, by tiring them out and having to run from ruck to ruck.

Sep 19, 2023, 08:16

Still, Doos-XL said that the Defenders are "not" creating opportunities. 

So even if we consider counterattack as a result of strong defense, Does-XL is saying this is not happening either.

Sep 19, 2023, 09:44

"Rooi trying his best to use language to save a silly thread"

What else would I use? Are you more accustomed to people making grunting noises or pulling faces?

Sep 19, 2023, 10:36

causality..................& the drol accuses me of virtue-signalling


Sep 19, 2023, 10:42

Well, I'm used to you using so many grunts and commas that I begin to treat it like Morse code.

Case in point. 

But listen, I keep suggesting that you use chat GPT to clear up all the confusion this world causes in your, uhm...mind.

Input - "What does it mean when someone says you're trying to "use language" to avoid looking silly?

ChatGPT - When someone says you're trying to "use language" to avoid looking silly, they are suggesting that you are employing sophisticated or complex language or communication techniques in an attempt to appear knowledgeable, intelligent, or competent in a situation where you might actually lack the necessary expertise or understanding. In essence, it implies that you are using verbal skills to mask your lack of knowledge or to deflect attention from your potential shortcomings.

This can be seen as a form of intellectual posturing or trying to sound impressive without genuinely possessing the substance to back it up. It often occurs when someone is trying to save face or protect their image in a conversation, discussion, or situation where they feel vulnerable or unsure of themselves. Instead of admitting ignorance or asking for clarification, they may use verbose or convoluted language to create the appearance of expertise.

Perhaps you should run our responses through ChatGPT first. I mean, not that you have any face worth saving, but it's probably precious

Also, here's a poem I wrote for you in Morse code...

.-. --- --- .. / .. ... / .- / - --- ... ... . .-. / .-- .... --- / --. .-. ..- -. - ... --..-- / ..-. .- .-. - ... --..-- / .- -. -.. / ..- ... . ... / ..-. .- .-. / - --- --- / -- .- -. -.-- / -.-. --- -- -- .- ...

Sep 19, 2023, 11:00

I'd love for Blo to explain the relationship between mentioning causality in the context of the causal relationship between good defense and creating attacking opportunities, and virtue signalling, but he won't because he's about to google it and realise he's confused...

or perhaps having a stroke.

If we don't hear back from you in 30 minutes, we'll send help Blo...

Hell, while we're at it, perhaps we could ask them to deliver you a dose of personality too.

2 boring know how it goes.

Sep 19, 2023, 12:32

 We all know by now than l'Grandxe Merde aka Doos does  not watch matches and if he does  he comes up with the wierdest conclusion.   He claimed  in  2019 that Meyer was the was the best atacxking coach the Springboks had since 2008 -  in fact he claimed  Coetzee.

Beforfe th e 20019 he hed from sote for abut theee m onths and then came back to prove hatn the Spinrgbok team of 2019 wasa worse than the 2007 Springboks..

I am surpruised he till now did not do the 2019 trick and vanish from site and even f the Sringboks win the series again wild come back and tell us  how abd the Springb oks were and did not deserve to win anything.    

Hopeeless case of warbed thinling.   

Sep 19, 2023, 13:44

Oh I don’t know….I’ve seen worse cases of ‘warbed thinling’. Come to think of it Malherbe looks slimmer to me, perhaps he has been ‘thinling’ too much?

Sep 19, 2023, 15:26

"Oh I don’t know….I’ve seen worse cases of ‘warbed thinling’. Come to think of it Malherbe looks slimmer to me, perhaps he has been ‘thinling’ too much?"


Thanks for the chuckle Moffie.

I think it was over 20 years ago that I used to make similar responses to ou Maaik and you used to reprimand me (in your rather overbearing and patronising manner) . . . something that set you and I off on the wrong foot. 

I know that demanding apologies on this board is a rather fruitless exercise and it's not really an apology I'm asking for rather than a simple admission.

I recognised ou Maaik for what he is a lot earlier than you did. Admit it.

Sep 19, 2023, 17:12

I freely admit I can be accused of being pompous and overbearing, I apologize for that. Although I will say I am not alone and generally speaking I have tried to be collegial.

As for Clever, there is a streak of arrogance I missed and an aversion to the truth I spotted far too late. So yes, you nailed the old coot far earlier.

Sep 19, 2023, 17:31

Hahahahaha. Mike being careless with his spelling is jumped on by the hapless Rooitwit who just got owned by Plum. The spell check move is a sure sign the oak using it has lost the debate. 

Sep 19, 2023, 17:51

Mike is a force of Nature...and at 80 something will probably outlast a good some of his juniors on this site...the petty critique on him says a lot more about his accusers than about some stage Rooi understood that...and, it looks like Moz also did, many moons ago... pity how people can get lost in their own sense of importance...go Maaik!!!

Maaik, please post that pick of the Storm Trooper on the toilet...legendary avatar!!!

Sep 19, 2023, 19:08

Sorry, what exactly do I understand?

Sep 20, 2023, 06:03

What a crock ....

Sep 20, 2023, 07:48

Draad, imagine us at Mike's age. I'm a loon already haha

I feel so sorry for people that have to deal with me when I get beyond 65.

Hopefully AI sorts out the telomere problem.

Sep 20, 2023, 08:41

Bering old is no excuse for being a stupid, stubborn liar.

Sep 20, 2023, 08:46

Sep 20, 2023, 12:41

The wrap around from an inside player has to be one way….Sexton’s specialty. Surely this is something the Boks are anticipating though. But much like Dud Toit’s pick and go, in the heat of the battle, these well known tactics still seem to surprise defenses.

Sep 20, 2023, 13:02

M ozart

If shitspeaking on site equates to $1 billion - you would be worth $25 billion.     

Sep 20, 2023, 13:20

And yet today you post a massive piece on Washington corruption which obviously took you hours to write with the (revised) heading:

‘Mozart a very serious question - please advice (sic) me on this’

Can you spot the irony?

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