Lekke lekke!!!!
Lekke lekke!!!!
PSDT walks it, especially the way he is playing these days
"Pieter-Steph du Toit is the best forward I have ever seen in the flesh."
Quite a statement from someone who has earned an international reputation for astute rugby analysis.
I'm pretty sure that will not go down too well in that snapping, snarling and spiteful little world where PSdT is a plodder, but it's nice to see that kind of recognition from someone who actually knows something about rugby.
I'm quite sure this is the only rugby message board in the world where PSdT is slagged off as a process-tackling donkey by such a high proportion of posters. I honestly shudder when I think of regular rugby lovers reading this board and seeing some of the ignorant and juvenile bile which is regularly spewed at a truly legendary Springbok.
Greatest Springbok of all time? Not 100% sure I agree with Eggchaser there . . . but Pieter-Steph is definitely in that conversation.
Haha mine was in Spanish, all I saw was a commentator whining in Spanish and a still image of Dud. So I’ll give you my power grades:
A=excellent…3 points
B=above average….2 points
C= below average….1 point
D= fail…0 points
So here is Dud Toit:
Ball carrying…D…0
Passing …C…1
Kick off receiving B…2
Pick and Go….A….3
Lineouts…B…2
Maul support …B…2
Process Tackling A…3
Tackle in space …C …1
Jackal activity ..D…0
Totals
Dud Toit 14 points
Average 13.5
Implied Egg Yolk rating 27
Inferred Hype factor 13.
Highest hype factor ever recorded Luke Watson 18
mozart
With due respect you are talking shit in the case of Du Toit. Your own idea about Du Toit is just about zero when it comes to rugby intelligence, Tio me help you ot with D u Toit's ratin g
Ball carrying…A…3
Passing …A 3
Kick off receiving A…3
Pick and Go….A….3
Lineouts…A…3
Maul support …B…2
Process Tackling A…3
Tackle in space A …3
Try-scoring A 3
M o M and Player of the Year A ....3
Mozart for fun - give us your sessment on Mostert. i really need a good laugh..
All embarrassing for savvy Bok supporters posting here.
I like EggChasers, but he's for sure a fluff guy.
It's fun watching his reactions to games, but in terms of analysis, everybody is a rockstar as far as he's concerned.
It's far more beneficial to sing everybody's praises than it is to speak honestly about players who underperform and make clear concise arguments for players that they feel would do better. The machines like the likes...tis $$$.
Apart from a few loons on this board DuToit praises are sung far and wide.
I doubt.even 01% of people think Du Toit is merely a process tackler.
But when you get both Du Toit and Rassie so wrong it means you are either stupid, too proud to admit your horrendous mistake or you simply can't stand the Boks.
As I said it's emabassung to think what people visiting this board think when viewing these absurd posts by unhinged loons and anti Bok posters.
Show me the numbers HasBeen, your ‘proof’ is the opinion of others. The only number that I have ever seen quoted was the number of tackles made in the WC final, but look at the rest of the WC. He tackled at 80%, about average. His defenders beaten, metres gained per run are well below average…..and he hardly offloaded in the whole WC. Which means he simply died with the ball doing nothing.
Where is the beef man?
Do you really think I would waste my time with a total bigot like you. Nothing and I mean NOTHING, no amount of evidence will get you to admit your monumental BLUNDER. Or should I say blunders.
Over the years the evidence has been given all to no avail.
You are such a clown that you virtually alone have these daft ideas you keep pedaling.
So no I won't go running off to get the stats to please you. Hahahahaha crash goes the mozzietard!
Can you imagine poor Mozzietard sitting around a table with Rassie, Mallet, Egg Chaser and rugby men etc trying to convince them that Du Toit is nothing special. They would have him certified! ??????
No evidence just opinion…no examples. But I’ll give you an example …..trying to be kind. Look at the Irish test we lost last year. The second last play, Ireland gets the ball from the lineout, their ball carrier falls right at Dud’s feet, it’s a perfect Jackaling option, but at worst he needed to drive over the ball.
What does Dud do, he bottles out of the fetch, allows Ireland to recycle without any opposition….drop kick, game lost. Opportunity to put one over the team that beat us at the WC gone.
That was a classic Dud reaction, he simply has no instinct to secure the ball on the deck…..I’d ask Dr Lucky and Egg Yolk to justify that Irish incident.
But we all know the reason you won’t try to defend Dud with numbers is….you’d lose. I’d wipe the floor with you.
And HasBeen, you calling anybody else a bigot is hilarious.
Mozart
hat th e dfuck is ajckalding - it was never done by ou ero Mostert
Ball carrying…C…1
Passing …C 1
Kick off receiving B 2
Pick and Go….D 0
Lineouts…B…2
Maul support … D O
Process Tackling A…3
Tackle in space D 0
Try-scoring C 1
M o M and Player of the Year D....0
Tryscoring scored 4 tries in 81 tests - Du Toit 13 in 92 tests
Moster is pushed out of ball protection by backline players - never any evidence he was capable of any ball protection
Moster virtually never got balls from opposition throw-ins. Recently he does not even accept resonsib lity in line-outs, Own throw-ins goes more to Du Toit than to Mostert.
Tackle in space - in the 2019 RWC he was dropped from the sarting line up because backline blayers ran straight through his defesme.
Mostert was always a fringe player when proper locks were injured,
By the way - in earlier posts you blame D u toit for not charging down the drop kick - now you invented otther shit about the same incident.
.
Poor old mozzietard he just insisting he is right. I am right he squeals the whole world bar a few nutjobs on this board are all wrong. I know more about the game than everybody barring a few nutjobs on this board.
Sorry mozzietard you are done and dusted. Cred is totally shot.
Time to man up and apologise!
' Crecld totally shot.
Time to man up and apogies!'
Says the man that can’t even write or spell properly?? Now he claims he knows more about Rugby then everybody??
Davies will definitely claim otherwise ou Beeno Biscuits…..
Shame man get a grip you lunatic cheerleader.
Get a grip on the shit you publish regularly on site, I corect mistakes - you cannot ever correct B S spreading on site,
Uncle BS i was speaking to Beeno Biscuits, not to you:) catch a wake up, drink a cup of tea and carefully read my post again….
Since when are you a grammar/spelling Nazi M?...moenie vergeet om voor jou eie deur te vee nie.
Draad ek maak n punt daarvan om my posts te double check, mar Dankie vir die reminder …:)
Die punt is, as Beeno Drol vir Moz wil aan val, dan moet hy eerstens sy feite agter mekaar kry en tweedens ten minste skryf soos n groot mens en nie soos n kleuter skool Kind nie….Wat n Poephol Se ek vir jou :)
Toe ewe skielik val Oom Kak Praat uit die bus uit en dink toe ek praat Met hom….Kak Snaaks:)
"Can you imagine poor Mozzietard sitting around a table with Rassie, Mallet, Egg Chaser and rugby men etc trying to convince them that Du Toit is nothing special. They would have him certified! ??????"
They would all just look at each other and laugh.
Again? Seriously? Why persist with this myth?
If you're going to claim Du Toit is the best flanker in the world, then bring the data: tackles made, breakdown turnovers, ruck arrivals, meters gained, missed tackles, penalties conceded, and the timestamps to back it up.
I've gone through the footage frame by frame. I know exactly what Du Toit does well... decent line speed (in the wrong direction) and reliable positional awareness (exploitable, in other words), and what he doesn’t. He’s not the most dominant in contact, he’s not the most dynamic with ball in hand, and his impact efficiency (work-to-result ratio) doesn’t compare to the top 20 flanks in SH rugby.
Let’s deal in facts, not fanboy folklore.
"Can you imagine poor Mozzietard sitting around a table with Rassie, Mallet, Egg Chaser and rugby men etc trying to convince them that Du Toit is nothing special. They would have him certified! ??????"
They'd be asked for specifics and suddenly the analysis would turn emotional, they'd start tripping over their own fabrications and aim for him instead. The sure sign of an intellectual pauper.
If a player performs there are all manner of stats that document that performance….if you can’t find it in the numbers it doesn’t exist. Fifteen minutes in a test may go by without Dud doing a thing….and then he appears making a decent tackle and the commentators gush. ‘He has a huge engine’.
It’s hype generated first in South Africa and picked up by the world rugby press. Du Toit had 2 strong WC finals, because the game plan was kick and defend, and he was number one process tackler. And I’m sure by now his reputation is intimidating, that probably has an effect.
But his production remains one dimensional….process tackles.
Waffle waffle BS...lol...plain numbers does not reflect the context...
If you can’t find it in any numbers it doesn’t exist….maar miskien is hy die Skim. Now there’s a thought Draadtjie.
Mr Draad, are you drunk? What have I asked for? What have I forewarned about my preparation? Do pay attention now Mr Draad.
He wasn’t especially convincing in either final, least of all the second, when the Boks were ragged. The irony is that the 2019 final was won largely by players Dawie tends to dislike, which makes using that win to defend Erasmus beautifully self-defeating… and rather hilarious.
There is some sense to an "emotional argument" for PSDT.
Say, like an opening batter that always sticks around a little. He may average low but you know that he's gonna give you 25 to 30 runs every time and see the shine off the ball.
His numbers won't look great, but the middle order can rest easy knowing that, unless it goes badly tits up, they'll only come in somewhere after the 15th over.
I suppose, in that sense the guy offers something, some sense of emotional comfort to his side that isn't too visible in the stats.
So perhaps PSDT is seen somewhat in that sort of light. An intimidation, rallying, or some other not perfectly quantifiable factor that leans more toward the abstract.
That's the best argument I can make and it's probably not one the hype train passengers above have considered much, if at all.
If you're making, or agreeing, with the claim of PSDT's greatness then the onus of proof does rest on you.
And it's really not the end of the world if somebody asks you to lay it out for them.
Of course, appealing to authority starts you off on the weaker foot, but we're used to that from this crowd by now.
Plum
You apparently have not discovered why often in the backline or outside of the wings yet, Terrible to be as pooras you are in performance evaluation, Two try assists should maybe help you out on that issue.
I enjoy your rugby contributions on site very much - knowing that they are always ridiculous and good for a laugh,
.
Du Toit was crowned before he ever arrived. This goes all the way to 2014. This is an unfortunate mallady of the South African rugby community. The reputation devoid of substance. These positions are seldom corrected by the body of evidence.
"I enjoy your rugby contributions on site very much - knowing that they are always ridiculous and good for a laugh,"
Yeah Mike, good on ya.
'You apparently have not discovered why often in the backline or outside of the wings yet, Terrible to be as pooras you are in performance evaluation, Two try assists should maybe help you out on that issue.‘-
Huh?? Hey Uncle are you drunk?? Stop Preaching to other’s about ridiculous Posts. Just have a look in the Mirror first:)
I think this is what you intended to write: 'You apparently haven’t figured out why he’s often in the backline or out wide near the wings. It’s terrible how poor your player evaluation skills are. Maybe the two try assists should help you understand that.'
Get it right Uncle….Rather start the morning with a cup of tea and a Marie Biscuit:)
The loons are at it again.
Their attempts to belittle Du Toit and Rassie have blown up on them and they have disappeared under tons of EGG. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Poor Mampara power finds comfort in some typos of mine. His relief is palpable and hilarious to behold.
Two World player of the Year awards mean nothing to these Mamparas. The praise of tbe international rugby community means nothing to them. They are right and everybody is totally wrong.
Oh the conceit of these nutjobs!
But to even the casual observer their animis towards Rassie, Du Toit and tbe Boks as a whole was very apparent after the second Rassie World cup win. Poor Card was in a complete froth and nervous breakdown and Mozzietard not much better.
These two loons were unable to cope emotionally and were left fully unmasked. Year of lies and propaganda had blow up in their faces in tbe most devastating way possible! Hahahahahaha. didnt they deserve it
But mozzietards lack of Judgement extended into the political arena. First he made the blunder of backing Ron against Trump as Trump could not win the presidency. When that failed he switched his support to warmongering NeoCon Nikki Haley who would ensure his Raytheon shares would climb. Again it was all because Trump could not win.
Man the guy lives in the States and still has no clue as to what is going on.
I see the other day he was supporting illegals in the US. Being the Globalist he is he wants a World without borders and all tbe other evils these Globist scumbags want to foist on humanity believing he somehow will not be part of the herd that is culled.
The guy lacks Judgement. He fabricates cases and when they are shown to be ludicrous he doubles down. This of course makes him a comic figure as he pedals his drivel on the board.
So again the challenge show me anybody who has made greater blunders than mozzietard and card. Trashing Rassie and Du Toit was the heights of stupidity. Nobody can correctly say otherwise.
It is a pity Plum has thrown in his lot with these two hapless propagandists. Perhaps he will eventually wake up.
...then make the argument for PSDT, don't list awards that are not based on statistics.
I've tried to steer you towards constructive debate.
Tell us about the intangibles, or the stats we're missing.
What stats are the clowns after?
His carrying in traffic is the same as the likes of Eben, Lood and RG
His tackle count is higher which makes sense given he is at 7 - tackles include a number of dominant tackles
His value out wide has increased under Brown ball - playing a good attacking and linking role
His work in the line outs is spot on.
He has a huge engine
Stats tell you very little as they provide zero context - I’d give stats 20% of the picture
PSDT is not good, he is phenomenal. Always a standout on the field - even more so these days with his attacking duties
By some distance the best 7 in the game and easily the best 7 the Boks have ever had and also one of the best players the Boks have ever seen
You don’t need stats to tell you that - just watch the great man play
EG Du Toit often has the highest tackling stats.
But I have something much better than any stats. Two eyes that work and a functioning brain.
There can be no constructive conversation with smear merchants with an agenda who have rejected fact after fact over ten tedious years or so.
Admit you are a microscopic minority howling at the moon!
You have no chance in hell of ever winning this argument.
Best thrown in the towel, offer a sincere apology and hope Bok supporters have the grace to forgive you for years of drivel.
His carrying in traffic is the same as the likes of Eben, Lood and RG - Stats
His tackle count is higher which makes sense given he is at 7 - tackles include a number of dominant tackles - Stats
His value out wide has increased under Brown ball - playing a good attacking and linking role - More stats
His work in the line outs is spot on. - Stats
He has a huge engine - distance travelled per game is, aaaaaaaa stat.
then...
"Stats tell you very little as they provide zero context - I’d give stats 20% of the picture"
You mention only stats, and attributes verifiable or refutable with stats, but then you say that stats don't mean anything. So are you saying "Here are some of his amazing stats but they don't really matter...because I think he's great."? Or are you saying "These are his stats and they make him great."
Yes, Beeno, we know, tell us more. Keep going and flabbergast us all.
Dud Toit WC stats:
Tackling:
Scotland 7/3
Ireland … 13/1
France …. 9/5
England 9/0
All Blacks. 28/3
Total……..Dud Toit 66/12
% made….Dud Toit. 85%
Overall 13 tackles a game at 85% success, solid but not unusual
Ball carrying ….runs/metres/defenders beaten/clean breaks/offloads/ lost
Scotland 7/27/0/0/0/2
Ireland. 6/8/0/0/1/ 1
France. 7/18/0/0/0/1
England. 8/14/2/0/0/0
All Blacks. 5/27/0/2/0/0
Total. 33/94/2/2/1/4.
So Dud ran the ball 33 times and gained 94 metres at just below 3 a carry. But his two big gaining games against Scotland and the ABs came with no defenders beaten. In other words he was running through open field.
In 33 runs he broke the line twice! And in 4 of five games, 31 of 33 runs he never beat a tackle. And he offloaded exactly once, which meant not only did he not provide any penetration he just died with the ball.
But that was the good news, 4 times he coughed up the ball. That’s a negative 100 metres right there wiping out his meagre 94 metres gained..
That’s a total fail in running.
There are no other ESPN stats, so I can’t comment on his lineout work. But ordinary defending and toothless ball carrying to me doesn’t add up to the best Bok loosie at the WC, let alone the best Springbok of all time,
...then I guess it's not in the stats.
So it must be intangibles.
I expect more chest pounding presented as evidence.
I do expect that Plum…..but if a player can’t register his contributions in fundamental variables like meters gained, tackles made and defenders beaten….it’s equivalent to a batsman’s averages being irrelevant. In short their arguments are really just excuses.
Bwahahahahahahahaha. If statisticians were always right they would be todays coaches. But no the people who understand the game become coaches.
Being a statistician is about as bad as being a lawyer! These lunatics lie through their teeth. Hence we have the most deadly hoax in history foisted on the world - the man made climate change hoax. No I prefer firstly the evidence of my eyes and secondly the virtually unanimous opinions of the experts of the rugby community.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics," which (strongly) suggests that statistics can be used to mislead, You start with lies, build up to damned lies and reach the highest point of lies which is the creation of bogus stats and their incorrect use..
Why am I not surprised that this warped mozzietard is a statistician who obviously doesn't understand the game after years of trying! Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Diversion….failure
So very bad has the use of statistics been that this adage has become famous.
I wonder how many times ou mozzietard has used stats to deceive people.. Fooling people on the board using stats is unlikely to have been his first effort in the regard!
Have the courage to debate the numbers, I look forward to that….come now, don’t be a coward,
So if some of you don’t rate PSDT, then injuries aside, who do you select at 7?
Mozart
As you claim you are rthe best rugby performance analyst in the world, I tod you before that the so-called stats you use is B S and that real rugby analysts use a system that followed every player and then indicate what he did, The system ws developed in 2014 and is used b nmational and amjor club teams. Rather expensive at I believe $50 000.
Until you get that program and use it your evaluations are totally worthess based on amateur BS. of zero value, .
Fair question Dave. I don’t rate the Deysel twins, but you could play Hanekom and Roos at 7/8. We’ll have to see what version of Hanekom returns after his serious injury, But the skill set of that combination is exciting.
I also looked at Ruan Venter over the weekend…..6’6”, 260 lbs, 22 years old. Inconclusive, he might need a bit more time. Maybe Kobus Wiese, but he too isn’t ready yet and I haven’t seen enough of him to be sure.
So while I still think 5 lock is Dud’s natural position, we haven’t got a clearly deserving blindsider at this point and Dud Toit knows the team and the systems….the inside track. And given we have ample coverage at 5 lock it won’t hurt us to continue his role at 7, until a replacement makes his case.
But I’d pull him into a tighter role, moonlighting on the wing hasn’t worked. Nor has his role as our main forward ball carrier. I’m not optimistic he will ever compete on the deck, but he could be more of a factor in rucking. If we can get our hookers to throw better, using him more at the back of the lineout is a natural….surely his height should be a plus there. And his role as first tackler is fine.
In other words until we get a natural blindsider get him to play more like Juan Smith not like a slow version of Pierre Spies.
Personally I’d love to see Hanekom at 6 with Roos at 8
For now PSDT reigns supreme at 7, I actually think his additional responsibilities out wide add to his value, he has done some good work out there
He will never compete on the ground, he is not athletic enough and too tall. There are the odd tall players than can do some work on the ground but PSDT is not one of them. It’s down to athleticism
His carrying in traffic as I keep saying is as good as players of similar size like Eben, RG and Lood. They are not as effective as the likes of Jasper who are shorter and bulkier. Those tall gangly giraffes are easier to bring down. They almost seem too heavy. But they are effective as they take contact and their bulk enables them to breach the advantage line, it’s a metre or 2 at a time.
Candidates to replace PSDT in the not so distant future are Elrigh Louw, Vincent Tsituka, Ruan Venter, BJ Dixon, Batho Hlekani and Reinhart Ludwig. Cobus Wiese is also an option but he is probably better suited to lock.
The du Preez twins are 30 now - no point
Elrigh Louw all day every day. I despise the fact that he got injured last season. My heart breaks for these kids when they do everything possible to get to where they want to be and the universe just says "Nah."
Honestly, there hasn't been a peep from him since his injury and it was a horrific one. I'm not sure when he'll be back. Have searched the tinterwebs for some news but haven't found any.
Ruan Venter needs to leave the Lions ASAP. He's totally wasted there. A massive unit of a man but entirely mismanaged at the Lions where the coaches don't seem to know their arses from their elbows. I think he could do very well under the right boss. Having a guy like that in your squad but not a single strike play that involves him coming on at pace...how!!!??? That should be your guy. He's the one that will break the oppositions back. And as much as Dave disagrees, Venter is still the only guy from SA that I have seen totally shut Roos down. He nullified Roos so effectively that at halftime the commentators specifically spoke about he's all but removed Roos from the game. I've yet to see any other SA forward do that.
But it's worth remembering that the combo of Tsitsuka, Wiese and Eskom worked extremely well against the Georgians. It's the most dominant I've seen our back three be this season, granted it was against lesser opposition, even if Georgia's pack is far better than their Tier 2 status suggests. All three are fantastic ball carriers and can give momentum at the drop of a hat. All three threaten on the ground while not being exceedingly good at it. I dunno, something in the way they rumbled against Georgia looked very good...but then Tsitsuka fell out of favour with Rassie because apparently he had some issue with his breakdown work. I felt that was a quick judgement and Vince deserved a few more bites at the Apple. Particularly when you consider the shambles of a Sharks side that Vincent comes from.
Watch out for Ludwig at the Bulls. The guy made about million tackles on the weekend. He's well on my radar at the moment and if you were to ask me for a long term replacement for PSDT, along with Elrigh, that might be where I'd be looking. 199cm and 115kgs....yet puts in 26 tackles in a game like it's nothing.
Agreed, on keeping PSDT. He's doing a job and probably playing better right now than he ever has. While I don't think he is the greatest 7 in the history of the universe he does do a job and he is the incumbent. Nobody is really threatening to take the jersey off of him right now anyway. There are elements of his game which I do enjoy and though I don't think he really excels at anything I am willing to concede that there must be intangibles that he brings to the table.
But here's a question...
What can PSDT do that Roos can't?
PSDT is a bit more physical than Roos, but not as explosive, but ATM I think Roos is his natural successor...would love seeing the 6 Hanekom, 7 Roos and 8 Wiese combo.
PS, Roos can't cover lock.
Disagree there Draad - I’d have 6 Hanekom 7 Jasper 8 Roos
Roos is the better all round player, Wiese is about the power. Your blindside should be a physically imposing player and probably the least skilful of the 3 loosies
I like my 8 a big bruiser...like Vermeulen en Wiese...and Trokkie...but Roos is more than physical in his own right...he has done well at both 6 and 7 for the Stormers in the past.
A part bruiser, part ball player is your ideal 8 and that is Roos for me
Wiese is a bruiser
The thought of Hanekom and Roos combining with Williams, Sacha, Willemse, Hooker, Moodie, JJ, Arendse, Kolbe, Edwil and Fassi is mouth watering
I can live with that too...I like the idea of those 3 playing together...
39,562 posts
As I vowed this video, I couldn't but wonder what Eggchaser would think of the boards mamparas Mozzietard and Card!!!
Ou mozzietard and his little echo will no doubt think poor Eggchaser knows nothing about rugby. Indeed for these two loons and a couple of others here only they know DuToit is no more than a process tackle.
Indeed what would Eggchaser say if he learnt Erasmus was just a lucky coach!!!
I had to assume he like any informed Bok supporters wouldn't linger here too long.
To Eggchaser Du Toit is his pick as the greatest ever Bok.
It gives and indication of what a monumental error was made by poor Mozzietard and Card and a few others.
Enjoy the video and perhaps the ignorant here could learn something.