Brilliant disguise, a Willemse thread which is actually an anti Esterhuizen thread.
Brilliant disguise, a Willemse thread which is actually an anti Esterhuizen thread.
No it is not anything you say it is. I mentioned Esterhuizen since so many on site think he is the 8th wonder of the rugby world and what is factual abour the two players and mentioned how much better a player Willemse is compared to Eaterhuizen.
Yes, I want to see more of Willemse at 12, outside Sasha Zulu. This could be the best combination for the World Cup. I would bench Libbok for the Stormers, and bring him on near the end when the game opens up a bit more.
Then, sub either Sasha or Willemse if the game is already bag (Shift Sasha to 12, if Willemse is injured)
Esterhozen dominates the Edinburgh match….the MOM.
Esterhuien was suershit when t came to thinking rugby. Who made him te MOM and for what? Two enalt at readowns ewas the sumtotal of his performances,
Esterhuizen was vert good in that messy match last night Mike, but the Sharks were lucky to win...well done to them, but their game needs a lot of work...I know Edinburgh in Scotland is a tough nut, but the Sharks aren't firing on all cylinders...something missing.
The Uncle needs a new pair of Glasses…..
Draad
The thing that is missing is having played together for a few weeks. When your big guns return there are bound to be some cohesion issues.
Two Fassi mistakes is what gave Edinburgh most of their points. The botched 22 restart and the similarly botched retreating pick-up. Both of those ultimately led to points for the Scots.
Very uncharacteristic of him and on any other day he wouldn't make those errors.
Sorry to say, and I don't do this often when it comes to opinions on performances, but Mike's take is clueless.
Most of us actually enjoyed the game. Even old RooiBalls got a bit excited.
My girlfriend is adding Esterhuizen on Instagram as we speak :(
"(Shift Sasha to 12, if Willemse is injured)"
Umm, why? Seriously!
"(Shift Sasha to 12, if Willemse is injured)"
Umm, why? Seriously!
Sacha is a flyhalf - not an inside center, That as a bitter lesson that cost the Stormers dearly and the cause o his injuries this year playing him in the wrong position.
I want to ask you lot a simple question - in which test Esterhuizen was a success and why in all the 21 tests he played inh he never scored a try and never contributed to scoring a try. I have been watching Esterhuizen since he played under 20 rugby in 2014 and he lost the Juniors the series victory in the final by knocking on a ball with an open line to score in friont of him.
He had one opportunity in the tests he played in when a similar inciodent happened and he knocked on the ball again. I have never once in tests see him making a decisive break - neither in showing any skills where tries resulted from. He has very limited thinking ability and reading of games and that is the sum total of his ability n test level.
I must emphasize - I think that from a rugby situation he has deficient thinking abilities as to strategy and he is slow paced as well. He is a clumsy player that is tackled fairly easily. At best a franchise level player and nothing more,
So lets do a comparison:-
Estehuizen - tests payed 21 - points scored - 0
Willemse - Tests played 39 - points scired - 56 Tries scored 4 - kicking at goal 32
De Allende - Tests played 88 - points scoired - 55
The following from WR:-
-Du Toit, who also won the award in 2019 following the Springboks’ Rugby World Cup win in Japan, beat countrymen Cheslin Kolbe and Eben Etzebeth, as well as Ireland’s Caelan Doris to the award.
Du Toit is also one of seven Springboks who were included in the Men’s 15s Dream Team of the Year, with Ox Nche, Malcolm Marx, Etzebeth, Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel and Kolbe all making the team.
So what makes Esterhuiszen a better payer thatn Willemse and De Allende?
ButtPlug, you do realise that a reserve flyhalf is usually on the bench. With a 6/2 split, the only 2 backs are usually a scrumhalf and flyhalf. I realise you did not play rugby, but even you should know that.
If it is a 5/3 split, there is room for one more back- typically an outside back.
Libbok is the reserve flyhalf for the Stormers. So if Sasha starts at 10 with Willemse at 12, and one of them gets injured, most people realise that Manie is not strong enough to play 12.
Sasha has also played much of his rugby outside of Libbok for the Stormers.
Granted, with injuries, one does want to wrap Sasha in cotton wool- but things do open up a bit towards the end of the game.
Given the long season, players also have to be subbed during matches so as not to overplay them, especially if they are dominating the game.
VisKop...
I realise that thinking outside singular dimensions is well beyond your grasp but Sacha is looking like he'll be the best back in the Boks for a good decade.
...and he's a tad too brave for his own good.
I would rather see Moodie or Hooker subbed into 12 instead of Sacha...with Sacha then playing at 13.
So, calm down, it's not rocket science.
They're talking for Stormers not Bokke...but same logic should apply.
Sacha playing at 12 for the Stormers in three matches this year, In the case of flyhalfs we have a problem - we have Sacha and Pollard - with the rest in the Supershit category. We cannot play anything of value with poor pivots at flyhalf and one can only hope that somebody comes through from the youngsters and I would like to have to see what happen in the Zanzaar series this year. I believe the series start on 1 May 2025 and one should watch and see whether another Sacha may come through like he did two years ago in tthe WC series .
Looking for Jurenzo Julius obviously the thing that was missing
Mozart
With respec I watched Julius after Dave started raving about him and in him I saw anoher Esterhuizen - slow in pace and one-dimentional with no real rugby intellgence that does not add value to backline attacking play and whose conributions are limited because opponents see their limited capacities in perf\ormances - that being the reason why a player like Esterhuizen in 22 tests have not been able to score a single try in tests, Frankly I would rather play a players like Hooper and Kriel at outside center that some people think they should play at 12 are not physucal enough at 12, but pacy enough to be effective at 13's, I would also prefer a player like Moodie ahead of Julius at 13,
I always in the past said that the "dead backline attack" deficiencies stemmed from having slow and unthinking players in cente posiions. That is why I liked Am at 13 - but he is getting on in years and is not as effective as he was in 2019 anymore, There are also a number of Lions wings and centers I prefer ahead of slow coaches like Julies at 13,
If you look at the Sharks peformances ths year and their inabiliy to score backlne tries is seen as defective center play, When their outside players score tries their cemters are preventing real attacking play and limiting tryscoring by their backline because Estrhuizen and Julius are as ineffective as backlie players was in the past with kicking away balls was the reason why try-scoring by backline players were lmited. That is why players like Frans Steyn was an extremely limited player that Erasmus basically brought back into the squad and whenever used in 2019 was at full back and not center. That is why in 2019 Esterhuizen was not in the 2019 WC squad and when Kruel got injured Erasmus called up Willemse to replace him.
Willemse was after an absence of more than 6 months from playing rugby this year was not as effective at center than he was n the past. That is why I think Esterhuizen being in the Springbok squad being about as limited as a snwballs survival in hell is.
Fuck me Mike your take on Julius tells me you are now the most rugby ignorant poster on this board
Your bullshit about Esterhuizen is bad enough but you have topped that with Jurenzo being slow and one dimensional
You know fuck all
Sorry Dave
My readig of Estrhuizen - he has been around now for 6 years and never showed anything making him a Springbok player, After 21 tests and no trioes scored showed me he is not up to standard,
I think Julies is still very young - proper coaching could develop him further, For that he must be kept away from fopr instance of White or he will end up as dead head center for keeps, ,
Absolute bullshit re Jurenzo - he needs very little coaching - if you have not seen his potential you know fuck all about rugby
But your ignorant take on Esterhuizen already tells me that
To be fair, we are still waiting for the JuJu magic.
Dave, I think your gonna have to accept that you call is either two years too early or perhaps just wrong.
The future greats make themselves known early on, through impactful performances.
...JuJu is yet to have one this year season.
I'll be you that Hooker will see more Bok caps than JuJu this year.
Plum
Performance of players are largely determined by the effeciveness of their coaches, Take for instance for years the Lions did not have the top quality playes they could not afford - but perform above ther expected level of erormance, This has happened since 2014.
In SA the four franchise coaches and with the quality of players available to him th e Lions coach is a better coach than the other three franchises in SA. That is why the playes with potential cannot reach their expected performance levels, If Julius go to the Lions he wll develop faster and better than he does under Plumtree and the same can be said of players coached by Dobson and White,
Take the case of Sacha - he is under direct protection of Erasmus and is a natural pivot at flyhalf and Dobson was buggeinga round by playing him at inside cene where his quaties as a privot were wasted and his style of play is dangerous exposing himself to injury, The monment he came back at flyhalf this year he was brilliant since he was used in the position natual to his playing style. To play Julius as a partner to Estehuizen as a center is turning him into a dead head player - despite all the ravings of members the Sharks and Bulls have good outside backs and suffer iro flyhalf and center deficiencies, I am sure that if teams likes the Stormers, Bulls and sharks have better coaches their backline perrmances will be better, Many people will differ frm me - but I believe that the Lions backline in attack is better than the other fhree poorly coached backlines.
,
Plum trust you to compete with Mile as the most ignorant rugby follower on this board
If you have not seen the Jurenzo magic then you simply lack rugby intelligence - after all you think Hooker is the better prospect
Enough said
Hooker is getting a bad deal playing on the wing for a side that barely ever gets the ball to their wings. He needs to be midfield, but he's not going to break the Sharks midfield while Andre, Am and JJ are there.
Yes, Dave...we know, whoever disagreed with you the most recently is the most ignorant person on the board.
Again, point to the impactful performance.
Plum
I actually think that Hooper will be a better 13 than a 12 - to an extent he lack the physicality needed by a 12 - but has the pace nd rugby brain to be an excellent 13,
JJ in virtually every game he has played bar one or two has shown that magic
For me he is up there with the X factor players like Fassi, Arendse, Kolbe, Green, Moodie, Willemse, Libbok, Sacha and Williams
All have that something special with ball in hand
What do you think of players like Wolhuter and Van Wyk of the Lions. Players with ball skills that play well in a weak team is to my mind generally underrated - but the fact that they perform well is for me indicating more class than they are given credit for. As to Libbok I have seen flashes of good play - but far too little of that being consistent. There are two players in the Stormers backline I do not rate and Gelant is one and Libbok the other one.
What do you t h ink of pl;aers like Wolhuter and Van Wyk of the Lions. Player wit abll sjkills that play well in a weak team iss to my mind generally underrated - but the fact that they erorm well is for me indicating more class han theya re given credit for. As to Libbok I have seen flashes of good playe - but far too little of that being consistent. There are two players in the Stormers backline I do not rat and Gelant is one and Libbok the other one.
Henco v Wyk is very good -,punches way above his weight - real nuggety player - I rate him highly but he does not have that X factor in terms of skill - he relies a lot on his compact power - not silky skills - more robotic than creative - more like a Jessie Kriel kind of 13 than the silky skills of a Am - JJ is more like Am - I prefer skilful players to solid ones
Wolhuter - jury is still out on him - I’m not convinced by him yet but that’s probably because we hardly see him play. He spends more time not included than playing. I need to see 10 consecutive performances from him to make a judgement call on him. Time will tell
Ive always preferred creative silky players to those that are more solid and robotic - hence me favouring the likes of Willie, Gelant, Fassi, Kolbe, Arendse, Green, Moodie, Am, Julius, Willemse, David Kriel, Sacha, Libbok, Elton Jantjies, Williams, Nohamba etc
Solid are more the likes of Mapimpi, Jessie Kriel, Esterhuizen, de Allende, Henco v Wyk, Hooker, Pollard, Reinach, Faf etc
I want to see more of Hooker and Henco v Wyk beating defenders through skill, fleet of foot, using soft hands etc - not just bashing their way through - that is predictable and more easy to defend against the higher the level you play
Dave
I like t he following:-
"I want to see more of Hooker and Henco v Wyk beating defenders through skill, fleet of foot, using soft hands etc - not just bashing their way through - that is predictable and more easy to defend against the higher the level you play"
The absence of the above in Esterhuizen is why I do not rate him. Tha is why I believe Erasmus does not rate him either,
I do not now where you will be able to watch the Zanzaar Under 20 Championship matches played in Port Elizabeth starting on 1 May 2025. I am looking forward to that series and hope it provides us with further skillful plaers - especially like it did with Pollard, Willemse and Sacha. I do not know whether you will be able to watch the series = I hope you do since I would like to get your assessment of playes as well.
Esterhuizen is a power player and a very very effective one. He also has good distribution skills and a great offload
Rassie definitely rates him, he just prefers de Allende and rightly so
Your take on Esterhuizen is completely wrong and smacks of rugby ignorance
No one having watched Esterhuizen playing for Quins over the years could ever but rate him. He was awesome for them. He has also been good for the Sharks when he has been available
55,316 posts
The first time I saw Willemse playing was when he was playing nder 20 rugby for the Junior Boks in England, The position he played in was at 12 amd he was so good that he was the playerr of the tournament. He hen played rugby for the Stormers mostly at flyhalf - but Erasmus obviously regard him a a center, When Jesse Kriel was injured in the 2019 tournament Erasmus called up Willemse as a replacement and not Esterhuizen. In hsi first test he did someth ing Esterhuizen was not abble to acheve in 21 tests,
I think that Erasmus sees Willemse as the replacement player if Se Allende whe he calls it a day or injury forces him out of Springbok rugby. Willemse has the necessaey stremgth and physicaliy to play in that position - buit he is alsi thinking player which leads to a more dangerous backline from an attacking perspective.
So if he stays injury-free he will play in the upcoming test series in July 2024.
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