Robertson has included Cane & Perenara in his 36 squad for EOYT although the pair will be retiring from internationals next year.
Robertson has included Cane & Perenara in his 36 squad for EOYT although the pair will be retiring from internationals next year.
Dave
Erasmus will not drop top performers as long as they remain regarded as being the best in the world in the positions they play in. In other words reputation is not going to keep players in the Springbok squad - actual performacnces would determine who stays in and who goes out,
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I’m ditching Libbok
Mozart
I am not a Libbok supporter - but Dave will have a seizure about your comments, Shaca is already the first choice flyhalf - and according to reports there is a youngster by the name of Chamberlain that plays rugby on the same style as Shaca - while Wolhuter from the Lions is also worth watching for further development.
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Chip chip you dumb prick there are far more players on my list of discards that I would retain ahead of Jessie Kriel starting with Am
"I’m ditching Libbok"
You already did...looong ago.
PS...who played 10 when we beat NZ 7-35 at Twickers?
If we had to be this Brutal, we will have losses for a period of time, but eventually the players will gel.
I think Rassie will try and take as many of the current incumbents with to 2027.
He knows the value of a group like this and it doesn’t come around very often. Similar to the Richie Mcaw era and that group of AB players.
No ways would I ditch Libbok, he is class
ccording to stats Erasmus used circa 70 players in his squads and about 60 new players played in international matches since July 2024 - a wide /range of esperimentation already in evidence,
Libbok is an incredible ball player.
I’d love to have him running the 10 channel and have Sacha at 15.
Then we can relieve Libbok of the kicking duties.
He’s such a good flyhalf.
‘He’s such a good flyhall’……who caves under pressure, can’t tackle, and can't kick the crucial kicks. Sacha is the exact opposite, a competitor who enjoys the contest….who is more likely to make the crucial kick than the unimportant.
A few weeks ago everybody pretty much accepted that. But Sacha’s injury absence and a decent game at home against the Bargies, suddenly resurrected Libbok. Now we no longer want to play the kid who set the world alight at flyhal….,but the Dud who would have cost us the WC if Rasmus didn’t drop him for Pollard.
Sacha is reduced to maybe at 15, maybe at 12. Crazy. Sacha is the best young flyhalf talent we have ever seen in RSA. Libbok is the new Jantjies…a player who flops but somehow lingers on.
Sacha has more BMT and he should carry on being our 10. Besides his Attack skills, his kicking under pressure is good.
The make of a test Flyhalf is to get those pressure kicks over and pull it thru.
Libbok is a very good distributer of the ball with his good passing skills. But he still needs to kick for poles.
In my opinion his game will deteriorate if he always has a kicker on the park to take his kicks for him.
A flyhalf doesn't have to be the dedicated kicker, the great Larkham didn't kick for poles. There's a lot to be admired about Manie, he has unbelievable hand speed and accuracy, a good reader of the game a good kick pass and forms a good combination with Fassi. And he uses the short pass to great effect. I'm sticking for the time being.
A simple solution to the abundance of our rugby talent is to form two Bok teams. lol
It’s a load of shit that Libbok can’t tackle or kick for goal
His career kicking record is no different to any other flyhalf out there
Yes he has failed when the pressure is on but he has nailed the odd pressure kick as well
Sacha is our best prospect at 10, along with Pollard - Libbok is third in line
Rassie is spot on for backing him - too good a player to discard - in typical Rassie fashion he found a way around Manie’s kicking hiccups - start him with security on the bench or have a second kicker on the field
Perfect solution. Manie’s last outing against the Argies was brilliant - he is going nowhere
Geez Dave your inconsistency is breathtaking. You rumble on for years about Mostert being too weak….but nobody gets through him. Then you tell us there is nothing wrong with Libbok’s tackling, but match after match he misses a third of his tackles.
If you want to look at physical requirements. Look at Manie. 5’ 11.5” and 168lbs. Exactly my weight when I played in high school. He is a very slight chap. Imagine him trying to stop Wiese coming off the scrum.
In today’s rugby 10 is in the crosshairs. You justify Dud Allende at 12 because you claim rugby has changed. The guy that’s targeted most is the flyhalf. Look at Ford in the 2019 WC final. A total target.
Add to that his non aggressive temperament. I give Faf a better shot at defending 10 channel.
Get real and above all stop blowing up your own logic.
Well if Libbok had issues defending he would not be playing test rugby
I have never watched a game thinking shit, Manie is missing too many tackles as it would be obvious
It’s simply not the case
He is a fantastic attacking player, with vision and great hands - you can’t coach that. He ignites every backline he is a part of
His defence is solid enough, never dominant and his general kicking is good
His overall goal kicking record is the same as all other 10’s out there. He has an issue with pressure kicks and consistently when it comes to goal kicking
That’s his only issue - any coach that discarded him because of his goal kicking would be a poor coach
Nothing inconsistent about me - Manie bar his goal kicking is a class act, Mostert adds zero productivity physically which is a big issue for me as a test lock. I will NEVER measure a Bok test lock by the number of process tackles he makes a game. Mostert in my books is a test liability and I won’t change my mind on that
"Rassie is spot on for backing him - too good a player to discard - in typical Rassie fashion he found a way around Manie’s kicking hiccups - start him with security on the bench or have a second kicker on the field"
What on earth are you talking about? He didn't find any way around Manie's shocking performance under pressure.
All he did was get an even worse kicker to kick,...someone who isn't even a kicker and, if I'm not mistaken, managed 50% against the Bargies. Imagine having to relieve your main goal kicker from his duties because his mind is too fragile...to the point where you get Jayden to kick for you. I mean, what next...are we gonna relive tightheads from having to scrum and call it genius?
You say "found a way" like there was some genius strategy involved.
Manie is a terrible defender. Which one could live with were he reliable off the tee. But I'd much rather get Jordan Hendrikse instead because he's a reliable place kicker, can actually defend, and is perhaps only slightly behind Manie in terms of creating.
Ja, we know, the WP boys will be up in arms. Which would be understandable if the non-WP board members habitually picked on Stompie players, but we don't.
I am a WP Boy, so not all will be up in arms. I see the Positive in Manie but also the negative.
That is why I said, putting a substitute kicker in for Manie is nonsense.
Especially one that kicks worse.This will deteriorate Manie,s game.
But it’s difficult to really know if his pressure kicks and defence will get better. Can you trust him again in crunch Moments or will he loose the game again?
He has had plenty of time to prove it or settle, but unlucky he hasn’t in that regard.
I really like Jordan and in his game against wales he did well. Difficult to understand why he has been excluded from the squad by Erasmus??
M, I don't put you in the WP above logic crowd.
"Ja, we know, the WP boys will be up in arms. Which would be understandable if the non-WP board members habitually picked on Stompie players, but we don't."
Nee man Plum...we get the concerns WRT Manie...and most of the WP boys are with you on most issues except DdA, but some agree with you there as well...this isn't a provincial thing...
"M, I don't put you in the WP above logic crowd."
Huh?...your pet hate for DdA is clowding your own logic.
Saffex don't support any province in SA, Maaik was a Sharks supporter when I joined this board in 2010...Beeno is a WP man and so am I, but there are some other than WP people on this site who aren't 100% opposed to DdA playing 12 for the Bokke...
Moz, Bob and Pakie are WP all boys who'd prefer AE...you're barking up the wrong tree...
Clowding(sic) or crowding or clowning ….Libbok can’t tackle. He is puny and should have hit the gym. I’m sick of these guys that are too lazy to do the work. Powder puff...hell du Pont would run straight through him. A bunch of process passes doesn’t offset the fact that he is a weed, that is terrified when he needs to make a kick to win the game.
Maybe I was talking about you and Beeno, Draad.
You two DDA lovers...
Haha
Manie's problem is that at 10 he had to make too many tackles. It's fine for Cheslin and Arendse to man up a few times a game...but a 10 has to make twice the tackles a winger does.
And his frame can't handle it. He's small enough that he could have put on an extra 10Kgs and lose almost none of his pace...but he hasn't.
Hasn’t hit the gym….I hate that. One of these days the opposing team is going to run back one of those flat cross kicks that are basically 50/50 balls and that will end the debate.
"You two DDA lovers...
Haha"
Nope, just not haters...or vehement opposers...you forget we both rate AE highly...as for Manie, I always had my doubts...even when he's playing for the Stormers...and I don't think he'll ever get his head 100% straight, but when he's on song, damn, he can do magical things...but too inconsistent to be a serious Bok 10.
Totally agree with you DbDraad.
We are blessed with some young talented players that should be selected to gain international experience now not at RWC 2027.
It's happening Arthur...we already saw some exiting youngsters putting up their hands and we have the November tests ahead...I'm sure we'll see some more coming through...traditionally we blooded the new Bokkies during the Nnovember tests...we've seen new players given opportunities in all positions except for center 
...would like to see Rassie surprise us...
Compare Manie to Cheslin.
Cheslin has turned into a little tank and lost almost no agility or pace. What reason would Manie have for no bulking up?
Provide video evidence of Manie missing all these tackles in the tests he has played it’s all bullshit
He is scrawny and not much chance of him ever bulking up. Built like Aplon
The stats are a load of shit - I’m not interested in stats not only are they totally inaccurate they provide zero context
I want to see video evidence of Libbok being a complete liability defensively at test level
Good luck with that as it simply is not the case - not even close
Take his last test for instance - go watch it again and point out all theee missed tackles
Dassie wants 4 possible/probables for each position .................. for flyhalf he has 2 'indelibles', ShakaZuluman & Pollard ............ the rest Libbok Masuku Hendrikse the heat's on .... have I left out anyone? Sadly I see very lil SA rugby nowadays.
Of course the stats are rubbish….they blow up your whole argument. So the stats have to be wrong.
How long ago did we start pointing out that Manie was struggling in defence?
It was pre the WC.
So we have situation where posters notice it, stats back it up...and Dave simply counters this by saying "No".
He then does the classic "Show me the evidence, no not that evidence, other evidence."
Of course, this is just low grade stalling.
Manie is not the only one in the Squad with defensive shortcomings.
Yeah, Moodie is another one that has suspect defence. DDA's slowness naturally drags his defensive ability down and Jessie has also been letting a few through lately.
I’ll keep this simple - you can take your stats and shove them up your arse as they are a load of crap
Evidenced by powder puffs clean sheet in the 2019 WC final
Provide me with video evidence of Maine’s defensive frailties - it’s a simple request, failing which shut the fuck up
I don’t expect you to trawl through every test he has played simply go through his last test against the Argies and point out all these missed tackles
You won’t find them because it simply is not the case. There has never been an issue raised about his defence and if there was an issue he would not be playing test rugby
Fassi was sent away to work on his defence - he did. Has Libbok been sent away to do the same? No he has fucking not
You clowns just speak so much shit
SA
27,718 posts
And ditch the majority of the 30 year old pluses - who goes who stays
For me Etzebeth, Marx and the security of Pollard and brilliance of Kolbe are a must. Given PSDT is in the form of his life he stays to
So I’m ditching Willie, Mapimpi, Am, Kriel, de Allende, Esterhuizen, Reinach, Faf, Kitshoff, Nyakane, Malherbe, Koch, Bongi, Lood, Mostert, Kwagga and Kolisi
Below 30’s that form the core include Willemse, Arendse, Libbok, Williams, Jantjies, Ox, RG and Wiese
Add the new additions in Fassi, Moodie, Sacha, Hendrikse, Steenkamp, Moerat, Nortje, v Staaden and Elrigh Louw plus the capped players like Jordan Hendrikse, Horn, Edwill vd Merwe, vd Bergh, Wessels, Mchunu, Dweba, AH Venter, Grobelaar, Buthelezi, Roos, Ruan Venter and BJ Dixon
So that leaves us with a squad of
15. Fassi / Hendrikse / Horn
14/11. Kolbe / Arendse / Edwill vd Merwe
13/12. Moodie / Willemse
10. Pollard / Libbok / Sacha
9. Hendrikse / Williams / vd Bergh / Jantjies
1/3. Ox / Steenkamp / Mchunu / Wessels
2. Marx / Dweba / AH Venter / Grobelaar
3. Thomas du Toit
4/5. Etzebeth / RG / Moerat / Nortje
6/7/8. Buthelezi / v Staaden / PSDT / BJ Dixon / Ruan Venter / Elrigh Louw / Wiese / Roos
Which leaves us short at centre and tighthead prop, making it imperative that we add depth here
Wilco Louw is the obvious at 3, along with young Hanro Jacobs of the Sharks who did attend the alignment camps
At centre we have some great prospects in Jurenzo Julius, Ethan Hooker, David Kriel and Henco v Wyk
We need more depth at lock - again plenty to choose from - Jenkins, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Cobus Wiese, JD Schickerling, Corne Rahl
Other obvious additions should be Tyrone Green, Nohamba, Vincent Tsituka, Emmanuel Tsituka and Hanekom
Bok rugby is looking pretty damn healthy