Is Ireland the model?

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Feb 22, 2024, 04:05

Obviously the appointment of the new coaches associated with a more balanced game is reaching out for something. Various adjectives are used, but it’s more evocative to name a team that looks like the Bok vision.


That doesn’t mean this team is better than the Boks, Ireland, to me the best model will likely lose on their South African tour. But the Irish game plan executed by our talent could be the ticket.


France’s approach is hard to define….England not much different to where we are today. NZ and Oz if it still exists, don’t bring facets we dominate into play and mentally are a bridge too far.


So Ireland. I see them doing pretty much all the things we do except defense. Key in this change will be to keep our smothering defense. What’s more interesting is what they add. Easiest to adopt, forwards who can offload and construct passing interplay. 

We already have that in the Stormers and the Bools. It shouldn’t be hard for the Boks. But we need a forward ball carrier who can break tackles to go beyond Ireland. A Willem Alberts type.

Ireland also use some intricate wrap round moves in the backs, often involving Sexton. Can we get some sleight of hand in our back play? That will require a real playmaker at 12 and Esterhozen does this every week, without losing any physicality.

Would a more physical, more athletic team playing in the Irish mode be formidable. You betcha! And Erasmus has Irish rugby pedigree which should make these changes more intuitive to him.

Stick with moz.

Feb 22, 2024, 04:50

Because Alberts was one of the worst loosies we ever  used in Springbok rugby.    Because he was slow his defense was seriously deficient and he loved to stand around - never doing  anything  when it coms to breakdown ball protection  and recovery,   He mostly stood around in the back of breakdowns in the hope that the ball comes his way to make one of his ball spectacular carries - which rarely got over the gain line.    A tight 5 player that was not a loosie, neutralizing play that was expected from loosies.   I remember one test against the AB's where he gave away 2 tries because f poor defense and non-existent ball protection and recovery.   

To lay him neutralized combined forward and backline attacking.   IN the 2015 WC in 2015 he was one of the players that should never have been in the Meyer squad - he never played n any of those WC matches  .   Reason in the 14 months before he never played in tests for 14 months because he had a fat tear injury.    When Meyer was fired as Stade Francais coach, Alberts  was one of the two players who was fired with him by the Club - the other being Morne  Steyn - and  the three was on the same plane coming back to SA.

Here we have a sterling example of why especially loosies - but also other forwards - should be able to link with backline attacks and this century that never happened in the case of Springbok rugby because the loosies were mere extensions of the tight 5 players.   You want more attacking rugby and the fact that you refer to  Alberts indicates total cluelessness on attacking rugby on your .part.   

    .                               

Feb 22, 2024, 05:28

WP at home .v. BlouBalle this w/end, could be a crecker.

Feb 22, 2024, 06:21

In still sticking the Swys' Lions system.

Because that's is still easily the most successful system I've seen.

There were two years, in the toughest franchise competition on earth, where they we averaging close to 50 points a game and with win margins that were probably at around 25 points. Of course this is going on memory alone and someone may need to look at the actual numbers.

But even if you make it 40 points per game and a win margin of 10...that's still crazy.

But that system requires one very important thing. Trusting the players.

And that is something SA coaches struggle to do.

For me, the Lions system was based around smaller forwards, most of which could carry and offload, a solid scrum, forwards hitting the line at angles, and backs that had free reign to take chances.

...and all of that was built on a team that trained relentlessly at altitude and capitalised big time in the second half on the gap in fitness.

To me, the stamina thing was largely overlooked. But anyone that has played sport knows that the less tired you are and the more tired your opposition is, the more you're gonna hammer them. And that's exactly what the Lions did. For a good few years, nobody could touch them in the last 30.

Still, that's not saying that Irish system isn't the most appealing one by an international team at the moment.

Feb 22, 2024, 13:16

Is Ireland the model asks ou Mozzzie. Well given they have yet to win a world cup I guess not. Mozzie is infatuated with fancy passes that lead to nothing much. Its all glitz and bright lights and frills with ou mozzzie. A forward just has to make an off load and he has won ou mozzzie over regardless!

No we have been more of a model than Ireland for sure and we not not resting on our laurels. Rassie is going to devise new ways to win matches so stayed tuned.

The one person definitely not to stick to is ou mozzzie unless you want to catch a severe case of RDS and end up being pretty consistently wrong.. Hhahahahahahahahahaha

But to be fair to mozzzie he is correct about us not losing our fantastic defensive ability. 

Feb 22, 2024, 13:49

"WP at home .v. BlouBalle this w/end, could be a crecker."

Dare we hope that our WP makes it 8 - zip?

Feb 22, 2024, 15:21

Er…but Ireland beat us at the WC HasBeen. Still you are missing the point, I’m saying Ireland’s strategy looks like a good fit for the Boks, if we are truly ready to abandon 1970’s Bools rugby…not that they are a better team than us. Although Eluckmiss is 0/2 against Ireland.


Feb 22, 2024, 18:03

We were better than Ireland in both those losses. Shocking officiating cost us the first one and far too many easy missed kicks cost us the WC pool game

I do like the Irish model though as I do our model against NZ at Twickers

Feb 22, 2024, 18:13

Erasmus also coached Munster and was Coach  of the year of the Year as well.   Now lets get this straight  up to the isolation the Springboks and especially WP played 15 man rugby.   Thereaddter the northern provinces let by the Bulls took over SA Rugby and introduced the 10 man game.   Every coach bar Du Plessis were 10 man rugby supporters of which  White was one of the worst kind.   He had no idea about backline play and in some cases no idea how to identify talent.   You were always supporting  10 man rugby as "Traditional Springbok Rugby when site members when some of us attacked coaches for having no backline strategy or plan at all the was expected from backline players whose only task was to defend,

One of your posts I will never forget is that 90% of the function of a flyhalf is to kick balls 90% .    of the time.  That is the rotten and broken system Erasmus inherited and he tried to ch ang e the BS.   In 2018  the  Springbok backline scored more tries than than the whole team under Meyer did in 2012  It was repeated in 2015/    

So there are now planned backline strategies in place and players coached.   What is clear that you join thinking people criticizing  the backline deficiencies- but there is a difference your comments are totally irrational BS. .               .         

Feb 22, 2024, 18:13

Duplication    .         

Feb 22, 2024, 20:07

Now let’s see, who became Springbok backs under White:

Fourie du Preez, Bryan Habana, JP Pietersen, Frans Steyn.

Who became first choice under White:

Jacques Fourie, Jean de Villiers.

Every one of them a hall of fame certainty.

…….

Now by his first WC  who had Eluckmiss introduced:

Mapimpi and Kolbe

Who became a first choice:

Faf

……….

6 hall of famers to 3, with only 1 being a hall of famer. And White can’t spot talent? Man you are the easiest put away I have ever come across. Do you ever think before you post your rubbish?

Feb 22, 2024, 20:32

Although Eluckmiss is 0/2 against Ireland.

Soon to be 0/4 :P

Feb 22, 2024, 23:30

You dis-respect NZ at your own peril.

Yes we have had 4 years of absolute rubbish and I mean crap but we will bounce back very quickly.


We have had absolute All Black BS  for 4 years but now that we have got rid of that arsehole - Things are about to change very quickly. 

Feb 23, 2024, 00:18

Ireland's draw-and-pass game and fastball retention are what sets them apart.

Even when there is no space Ireland is confident to put the ball down the line.  
They retain possession through long phases until they find a gap in the defensive line.

The ball carrier is confident they will always have support runners in the backs, with forwards ready to retain possession at the tackle point.

Ireland lacks super start outside backs, otherwise, they would be getting even more tries.

Feb 23, 2024, 05:00

So Saffex, what you’re saying is the ABs were far better than the Boks in the final but it was only missed kicks that cost us the game! And Black & Red, let’s see how Razor goes first before bad mouthing the coach that got us within 2 points of the win with 14 players!!

Feb 23, 2024, 09:06

I see ou mozzietard being thoroughly schooled once again. HAHAHAHAHA it's become a feature of the board to see this fake Bok supporter getting shredded.

Now the wee abs complaining bitterly about losing to the Boks in the RWC yet again. 

It's clear the Boks are made for the biggest stage and have the necessary big match temprement. Nobody comes close to their 50 percent RWC win record. 

Looking forward now to a new era of Bok rugby as Rassie rebuilds. 

Ou mozzietard will be smearing and sniping at Rassie as the days go by and making an ass of himself thereby providing a constant source of merriment. 



Feb 23, 2024, 10:29

No, I hate the way the Irish play, there is nothing attractive about it. Getting away with obstructions. What they have done is improved their basics from Scrumming, line outs and set play. There defence is also top notch. They have a really physical pack too. They also have enough players on the bench that can slot in. They have built depth in their squad. 

Then they have some real game breakers from Ringrose to Van Der Vlier etc. 

They deserve to be in the top 3 and even their 1 ranking as much as I hate to admit it. 

I fucking hate the Irish. Worst winner ever, so bloody loud mouthed. 

Feb 23, 2024, 11:29

If they rise up and kick out their Globalist rulers like I think they will do I will always have a soft spot for the Irish though not for the StavASS type.

Feb 23, 2024, 12:41

I fucking hate the Irish. Worst winner ever, so bloody loud mouthed.

Sorry if you a bad experience with some Irish fans but I don't think the majority of us are like that.

Feb 23, 2024, 15:07

The Irish are all right. 

Trust me guys, the majority of them are not like Star :D

Feb 23, 2024, 15:28

The Irish unfortunately have a excellent allroung squad led by an excellent manager.

A threat to any internation team they face including the Bokke and the All Blacks.

Feb 23, 2024, 15:53

The Irish are all right. 

Trust me guys, the majority of them are not like Star :D

Indeed they are not as Handsome!

Feb 23, 2024, 16:51

LOL = you got him time Stav 

 
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