JJ = Jurenzo Julius haha. He did zero all day. To be fair, the Sharks barely created anything for any of their backs. But you'd think that a guy slated to strole into the Boks would have made something happen.
Edwil was indeed great today.
How Rass got MOTM is a mystery.
Personally I thought Morné VD Berg was the MOTM.
I see that more people are noticing JJ's lack of pace.
It's a real problem for him.
Small is "okay" but small and average pace is not okay.
...and 178cm is small. JJ is closer to Kolbe's height than he is to Hooker's.
He needs to do special stuff for a good spell before I'd consider putting him in the mix with Moodie, Henco and Hooker.
Who knows, I mean Am was kinda slow too and he did okay at 13. Then again, Am was more solid on defence than JJ seems to be.
Oh what a load of utter shit
Fuck me I’ve read some shit in my time but this takes the cake
Jurenzo had very little action given the conditions and how shit the Sharks were
Name the passages of play where Jurenzo looked slow - absolute lies
As for Hooker he missed two important tackles, he had a shit game
Jurenzo small at 96kg’s - fuck off
Fuck go find some actual rugby to comment on not some pathetic childish lies about a player
Moz you are fucking pathetic
That’s what you said when you punted Meisiekind, JJ and Stepfontein who you claimed were all going to be Bok greats. Julius has had some good moments and some bad moments. He has a step, but he isn’t particularly powerful in contact and he certainly isn’t explosive. I can’t see what he brings to the party that will bother guys like Ringrose or Huw Jones.
But it’s just an opinion, you haven’t been shy with your’s.
I’m going to enjoy Jurenzo making your name mud for the rest of time
Bring it on
Jurenzo is pure pure class
Saffex,
Perhaps it'll be easier to make a comparison.
Between Henco and JJ, their is a gulf in terms of impact.
I think about it like this; Given the same opportunity, how much is there between them. I think Henco pips JJ in terms of how much he makes of opportunities. You probably see it the other way, and that's fine.
But now ask yourself who has the greater impact when there are no opportunities on offer.
Henco walks away the clear winner. He's a supremely intelligent defender, he reads the game very well and constantly turns nothing into something on both attack and defence.
Now remember, the superstar that is Willemse is still to return too. A guy of proven quality and a potential backline captain. I'm not sure Rassie wants him at 12 and one would have to be insane to pick him ahead of Fassi at 15.
So, it's not a definite, but it potentially creates even more congestion at 13.
I think JJ's trajectory is okay. But he has a lot more to do before I'll speak of him as highly as you do.
In terms of his pace, he has little top speed. He was run down by three random Toulouse backs when they played the Sharks. He's slower than Hooker who has 10Kgs and 6 inches on him.
Henco is a warrior and Damm good at what he does… Jurenzo is good with ball in hand and exploits space on the attack.
But still needs to give attention on his defence and distribution especially if he wants to be the Bok 13.
It’s unbelievable that Hooker was not invited to the alignment camps….he is strong, fast and a good defender.
JJ is definitely not infront of them when it comes to performance. It’s also a fact that Henco up till now, has not had a game where he completely lost his form like JJ did Yesterday.
I do think Wunderkind JJ will be back, and performing better again… But Henco is ahead as he has been a more consistent performer, even if it was wet :)
Oh without a doubt JJ has made more of an impact this season compared to Henco and do you know why - JJ has the gift of being able to exploit or create space, which is not what Henco is wired to do.
Henco is another Jessie Kriel or Andre Snyman in terms of rugby software whereas JJ is another Am or Conrad Smith but with the physical ammunition of a BOD.
So in modern test rugby which type of player is going to come up trumps - a 96kg outside centre who plays it direct and likes to attack contact or the 96kg centre that can create and has a great rugby brain?
At test level which one is easier to defend against?
Henco is good and he is a warrior but JJ is next level in terms of being able to exploit slight opportunities
As for Willemse returning - he has absolutely nothing to do with the equation as there is no way he will be employed at 13
As long as we have Dud Allende at 12, number 13 is only there to defend…can we remember one try in which the 13 played a role, except for turnover ball. I guess I can recall Kriel making a tactical grubber that led to a try…..and there’s Am’s lightning offload to Mapimpii in the 2019 final, but that was from broken play Dud thankfully was nowhere near the ball.
The ball never reaches our 13 with Dud at 12. Is Julius an improvement on Kriel defensively? Nope….so I doubt the genius will play him in any tests that are at risk.
"Henco is another Jessie Kriel or Andre Snyman in terms of rugby software whereas JJ is another Am or Conrad Smith but with the physical ammunition of a BOD."
Henco is not near to Jessie Kriel type player.
They are polar opposites.
Henco is a chancer, and very quick to see and exploit moments. Jessie has never been that type of player.
Dave, it's nuts that you even think they are remotely similar.
I said in terms of software - they don’t strike me as intelligent players - a bit robotic.
They play it as it happens, unlike the Am’s etc of this world you are a step ahead of the action, they have better instincts, peripheral vision
Henco is mostly about power and the direct route, there is very little that is subtle about him - it’s hussle and bustle stuff - Jessie is similar but he relies more on pace and used to be a stepper - he is not as physical and direct as Henco
Henco is not naturally big but has bulked up nicely to give him that physical bust - it’s that low compact drive through that serves him well.
Henco and Jessie are not intelligent rugby players like Am and JJ
Its what impressed me early on about JJ - the rugby intellect - you can’t coach it
Dave you have a different idea of rugby IQ to what I do.
A slick behind-the-back pass, or rapped along offload isn't rugby IQ, it's instinct. Now instinct isn't a bad thing, but it's just not as valuable is actually rugby IQ.
So what I think rugby IQ is?
Rugby IQ is adaptation in both defence and attack. On attack it means picking the right line, finding the correct position to be in to get the most out of a play, knowing when to force the issue and when to recycle for another. When well executed its results in you impacting the scoreboard more than most either through assists or scores of your own. See Henco's stats for reference.
On defence it's the ability to quickly figure out where you are most needed and applying yourself there. It's holding your line but knowing when you can press beyond the line without creating a weakness and then being able to do so regularly. It's counter rucking and stealing when nobody is expecting you to, and being succesful with it.
High work rate + intelligence = impact.
Henco is all of the above.
You really need to watch him play, Dave. The fact you compare him to Jessie tells me that you haven't watched much of Henco at all. Calling him robotic. Honestly, there is zero robotic about him. The guy is probably the most creative player in the Lions team.
I can see how you make the mistake though. Your assumption is that trying really hard makes you a Jessie. But you're only looking at input. The output is completely different between those two players. Literally polar opposites.
Plum first off don’t insult me by saying I need to watch Henco - I don’t miss a game, I watch more rugby involving SA teams than anyone else - shit I even watched the Baby Boks vs Georgia on Friday morning over breakfast in Greenwich, London - live stream on the Georgian rugby FB page.
I did not say Henco and Jessie were the same I said they had similar rugby IQ’s ie pretty standard - not the special type like an Am, Sacha, Moodie, Willemse, du Pont etc
Henco is hussle and bustle relying on strength to make most of his impressions - he is not athletic, he does not glide - some players just glide in motion - Sacha is a prime example, as is Moodie and I see the same in JJ.
Rugby IQ for me is about anticipation, making the right decisions under pressure, getting into the right position early in order to be able to exploit and execute an advantage like a subtle movement into space before you even receive the ball, it’s an understanding of space and how to attack it, it’s identifying weaknesses and exploiting them.
In what I have seen from JJ he does all this, it’s those movements before receiving the ball, it’s the awareness to identify space, exploit it through his explosive pace off the mark then seek to link with clever offloads. And while he is doing all this, it’s done with a glide, no hussle and bustle.
Defensively is see him doing the same, he is making good reads and communicating a lot. Henco is more of a targeted defender, he lines you up and hits you hard, often letting the defender almost pass him and then hauling him down. Henco defensively is very strong one on one. I’m guessing JJ is better equipped to read defensive structures involving the whole line not just one on one but time will tell.
For me Henco is another Jessie, Jacque Fourie or Andre Snyman while JJ is another Gerber, BOD or Am in all respects - rugby IQ and athleticism. Am does not glide like a Gerber or BOD, but has a brilliant rugby brain and great hands
I’m taking JJ over Henco all day long - Henco gives to solid, JJ gives you X factor
Julius has a higher rugby IQ than Jacques Fourie?
Who is BOD? Nah Henco is not so 1 dimensional as you describe him… all I know is that Henco is always busy making something happen.
If it’s defensive or attack he also glides past defenders. I also think not sure tho, that Henco is ahead on the amount of tries scored?
With his own stepping and power runs, the chances are good that he scores when he is in the oppositions half.
Henco is a Consistently good performer.
BOD is Brian O’Driscoll
Henco does not glide at all he bustles - mostly about trying to bust tackles
Ah ok Brian…Well with Canan Moodie it’s more obvious to see that he glides as he is taller …. His movements are a bit slower, but fluid and very effective.
JJ just like Henco are Energetic and Busy players….so they both bustle I would say.
BOD exploded, Jean glided…..JJ falls.
Jean was anything but athletic he never glided
JJ falls - that’s a lie
Jean was magnificently athletic…that’s why he played 13 tests on the wing and scored all those long strike tries. At full pace Julius wouldn’t have had a prayer.
Bullshit Jean was an awkward looking runner
There is no way in hell he was quicker than JJ
One only needs to look at JJ’s YouTube tribute to evidence his pace
Saying he is slow is a pack of lies
Ten metres over the 100 quicker.
Jurenzo Julius may prove to be a flat track bully against the pub teams, but exposed at higher levels with less time and space. Time will tell..
He is nowhere near as good as Saffex seems to believe. Not yet anyway.
Who in their right mind would pick JJ ahead of Hooker at 13?
Hooker has proven he can play in multiple positions and has real pace and power, and is perpetually and measurably impactful. If anything Dave should be raving about him and not JJ.
JJ and Henco are far more similar than Jessie and Henco. As it stands, Henco is better at everything than Julius is. That's not to say JJ cant or won't improve. I don't think we've seen his ceiling, but it's all hopes and dreams for now.
...and nobody would put hopes and dreams ahead of the list of players that have already proven themselves.
JJ needs a couple of seasons and let's see where he lands.
I have seen a limited amount of JJ. However what I have seen was very impressive.
Given how mozzietard keeps getting his calls wrong his take on JJ becomes an indication that JJ could be the real deal.
Certainly I want to see more of him.
96 kg for a young center is fine. JJ is chunky in the Danie Gerber mold. Low center of gravity and able to beat oppenents with great step and acceleration.
Anybody automatically still siding with Moz after all his debacles is a joke. Stick with Moz has to be the funniest little phrase ever. Hahahahahaha.
JJ is so much better than Hooker - Hooker is good but JJ is special
As for Jean 10m over a 100m - fucking joke
Pure class - the lad glides, has explosive pace off the mark, great hands - the real deal
Then you get the Hooker tribute and it’s nothing compared to JJ - hell the best part of the Hooker tribute was JJ making that break with that explosive pace off the mark to offload to Hooker
Its chalk and cheese stuff
Gives those tapes to a scout and ask him which player he is signing - JJ walks it
Rugby is a winter sport. Jizzo didn't show up today. Slipping tackles, running into dead ends, turning the ball over and really poor passing.
I liked what I saw of him on attack but he doesn't hold a candle to Hooker.
Today was his chance to make a statement but he was so poor in the wet.
He would get destroyed if he played against a kiwi team in New Zealand with wet and cold weather.
That is what set the kiwis apart against SA teams and players. The can play the same expansive game in any conditions but our most attacking players like Libbok come unstuck in the wet.
Look at Mathee, not the best 10 but controlled the game for the Stormers in the wet and helped them get the win.
The Saarks problem is that they couldn't control the territory like van den berg did. They had Jordan Hendeikse who is perfect for the conditions with a great boot, but they opted for Masuku that came unstuck.
So to me Jizzo can only play when it is hot and dry. In the wet he is useless
King you are speaking utter shit - he never missed a tackle unlike Hooker missing two
If you think by watching their highlights videos above that JJ can’t hold a candle to Hooker in attack - I’d say your rugby grasp is piss poor
As for making a statement in the wet, what a load of shit - I watched that game again fast forwarding to JJ’s bits and he had one offload go behind Hooker after initially targeting the defender and drawing him in and he lost the ball twice in contact after making good attacking insertions
Are you seriously stupid enough to now define JJ on those 3 incidents in piss poor weather conditions and just ignore all the great things he has done this season
Fuck me you are seriously rugby ignorant
Hooker does not have a patch on JJ when it comes to rugby IQ, athleticism and hands - he is taller and slightly heavier - that’s all he has on JJ
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What a nightmare this chappie had today. Am and Hooker looked miles ahead of him in terms of polish.But the real MAGICIAN out there was Edwil van der Merwe, who ran a magnificent line for his try and in another phase bounced Julius like Nadal would a tennis ball before the serve. Julius just keeps dropping the ball and throwing poor passes. Then Julius gets carded.
Dave you can’t be serious. This looks like a JJ Englebrecht style missed call.