https://www.planetrugby.com/news/springboks-v-wales-five-takeaways-as-half-backs-absolute-nightmare-leaves-rassie-erasmus-with-a-lot-of-thinking-to-do
https://www.planetrugby.com/news/springboks-player-ratings-extraordinary-edwill-shines-on-debut-as-the-pack-obliterates-wales
Thanks for he above ratings and reports, I would have given esterhuizen a 3 rating - the difference between him at center and De Allende was highlighted within 5 minutes from the time he replaced Esterhuizen at center - De Allende is an international level player - Esterhuizen a club level player.
The only other player I would give a lower ranking than indicated was Mostert - whom at lock produced near to zero and gave away two penalties due to his lack of physical strength expected at lock - he deserve no more than 5,5 for his performance in the test yesterday,
The Springboks capataincy remains unclear - but I think if Kolisi is not available the captaincy in the Irish test will go to Du Toit. You will notice that I was the only site member who mentioned that Du Toit would be captain yesterday. I think Etzebeth is a brilliant lock - but he is not a equal level captain. and hat has been proved by the fact that the Springbok's under-performed in two tests he was captain.
I do not think that Etzebeth is not respected as a leader captains need to be - in other words he is admired as a player, but not ncessarily as a captain.
Edwil's double tackle was the play of the game for me.
It was Hendrikse's first cap, he's been good for the Lions, so I wouldn't write him off yet.
Mostert was everywhere all the time, as usual. Legend.
Marx and Eben were both relatively quiet.
...and hey, did everybody else see Roos yet again making another break that looked very 12'like?
The answer to the captaincy conundrum is easy. Pick Mostert as captain and vice captain. Legend.
PM
I watched the game and esecially him - he was not eveywhere and when he was he was doing very little in constructfive play.- in other words he was ineffectivce at best. The difference between him and Du Toit became clear near the end of the game - when Du Toit moved to the middle of the line-out and Mostert was put at the back where he took a line-out ball cleanly - in the middle of the line-out he did not take clean balls. That is why I do not think he really deserve his place in the team.
Maybe Mostert as player and captain play the Namibia B Team in a test - in other games he would be a disaster both as player and captain.
Ou Maaik, most posters here think you're an ignorant, decitful, biased, stubborn, stupid and foul-mouthed low-life. Posts like the one above do little to change that perception.
Overall it was not a bad start. Fassi was really good with his gathering of the high kicks….I think he took 8 or 9 of those kicks with absolute perfection. Both Jordan and Sacha was really good…..yeah Jordan was a bit nervous and made some mistakes, but who can blame him for first start ….Sacha showed More composure though….not even going to respond on bias comments on mostert anymore….it’s a waste of time. Edwill,s double tackle was definitely a great moment and he will definitely make his impact again in future games…..Jessica had a good game and so did Mapimpi…..looks like the older guys still have a lot left in them….i think the Mapimpi try early second half was quite good, especially the fast passing skills show cased by our Backline….is a brown blue print already visible? The Irish series is going to be good. Well done Bokke.
Yeah, Mapimpi has sort of been indirectly written off. The problems are Cheslin and Arendse...so one can't blame fans or coaches.
Mike...
"Maybe Mostert as player and captain play the Namibia B Team in a test"
At least Namibia A, Mike...gosh. Give the Legend of Mostert a chance!
I am a little confused about some of the scrum calls, like blowing the Boks up for walking around the scrum when they were simply guilty of pushing Wales back more quickly on one side than the other.
Below: Roos breaks in 12'like style, and Mostert is the first forward there, arriving a split second after our 9, and is then unlucky to be called held up. I mean...the clips keep backing me up and, and..I dunno what to say.
Timestamp: 0.35
The first half was a very mixed bag.
The ref got the scrums wrong and the Boks did not get their deserved reward for scrum dominance.
Marx was below his best as could be expected.
Eben also gave an average performance.
Mostert was busy as ever but it's problematic that he gets the nod. Lood and RG are both better locks if fit.
Roos looks to be the deal.
Kwagga is not the answer as a starting 6.
Hendrikse, is promising but needs time. Sacha was very good and showed a great temperament. Class act.
Those dopes pushing for AE ahead of Allende were left with very red faces.
Edwil looks better than Arendse.
Fassi was brilliant under the high ball. Expected more form him on attack.
Boks missed the creativity of Willie, Moodie and Kolbe.
The Bok pack cannot afford two lightweights like Kwagga and Mostert.
One hopes for a big improvement against Ireland.
If Pollard is not available give Sacha a chance. Willemse or failing that Willie must play.
It would be very nice if Plumster and poor Mozzietard acknowledged that they were hopelessly wrong about AE versus Allende.
I won't go on about how Mozzietard has been wrong about so many other things as it would waste too much of my valuable time.
Plum time to throw in the towel on AE being so great versus Allende. Hahahahaha.
Rooitwit go look in the mirror but sit down before you do so. Bwahahahahaha.
Hope RG Snyman returns to the Bok match 23 soon.
Sure, give Esterhuizen a token test start once a year and then shoot him down if he doesn't absolutely set the stage alight. Sounds like a fair way to deal with a player of his ability.
Pakie
The fact is that Estrhuizen was played in his first five est appearances in 2018 and if his five matches were compared with the 5 matches in which DFe Allende played with respect of the following matches and considering the following:-
* Defense: Esterh uizen had to make 22 tackle attempts in the 5 matches he played in and missed 5 of those, De Allende made in his 5 matches made 42 tackle attemps and missed 5.
* In the Wales match Eterhuizen made two attacking moves gaining major distances - but at the end of nt attacks he lost posession when tackled and it allowed for Wales t counter-attack.
Esterhuizen is obviously a good club player - but he was not as successful on test level. In the November 2018 test he was in the final minute of the match totally unpredictable and he ran a line that caused ball possession as a result none of his teamates expected what he did. The end result was that he lost ball possession and the English won the test as a result.
Esterhuizen had a lot of match exposure in 2018 and your assetion that he is not fairly treated is to my mind wrong. In 2019 he was not in the 2019 WC Erasmus left him out and when Kriel was injured called up Willemse to join the squad. I do not think it aas done for any reason other than his deficiencies. It is not as if he was not sued - but in the 18 matches he played fr the Sring boks he has not according to wikipedia scoer a sing;e try fr the Springboks - so his attacking ability is also limited.
Another example contrary to your idea is the fact that Esterh uizen started in the test yesterday - but after his sub-standard performance yesterday he would not play any fuirther tests for the Springboks again.
Yesterday's match again proved that De Allende is a far better center than Esterhuizen and if there is a seond choice to be made it is likely to be Willemse or one of the other younngsters.
Esterhuizen is a nice club player - but I believe not a player performing better than De Allende.
Esterhuizen needs more time. He started with a debutant flyhalf.
While he did not do much ball in hand, he was involved in some slick backline moves where his positional play allowed the backs to run at angles.
Delande is worse at getting his backline running, even when he is just used as a dummy runner for a skip pass
The Bok 12s match summary (support and attacking play)
Esterhuizen:
0:43 short run, gains meters through the tackle, quick recycle.
05:05 first receiver, passes to Hendrikse
13:32 tackled, quick recycle
21:39 first receiver again, passes to Hendrikse, same setup as 05:05
25:50 strong counter ruck with Kriel gaining 5m
27:56 first ruck support for Fassi after high ball, ball secured
36:12 draws tackler and releases Steph on the outside
41:17 quick hands to Fassi who releases Kriel in the lead up to Mapimpi's try
51:50 supports Steph in forward carry
54:05 15m run on the outside, tackled, quick recycle but Mapimpi puts a foot in touch as he gathers the ball
55:57 ruck support for another Fassi high take with Kriel & Edwill, ball secured
DDA:
58:58 kicks directly into touch from turnover ball with a 3 on 2 overlap outside
62:30 wins ruck penalty
66:40 catch and inside pass to Sasha
70:39 gathers kick downfield by Wales on the touchline, makes a few metres forward through two tackles, ball retained
72:19 picks up ball at base of ruck, goes blindside, changes his mind, goes openside, beats one tackle going laterally, knocked over backwards in the next tackle
80:21 receives pass from Williams tap, runs laterally engaging two, short pass putting Sasha into half gap
80:29 short inside pass
Esterhuizen didn't put a foot wrong. Ou Maaik's contention that Esterhuizen buggered the backline play is, of course, nonsense. His passes found their mark, his quick release to Fassi was crucial in releasing the outside backs for Mapimpi's try, he didn't miss a tackle and he recycled the ball cleanly after every run and was involved in general support play.
DDA didn't do much wrong either apart from the lamentable kick straight into touch from turnover ball with an overlap outside, but he didn't exactly set the field on fire either.
I wonder if that is it for Hendriks, we saw how quickly Rassie got rid of Robert Du Preez and the guy never got a sniff of the bok jumper again. Might be the same for Hendrikse. He hardly played at 10 or 12 for the lions and have been hit and miss. Has all the tools in his arsenal but just can't string it together.
Sacha came on when the game opened up. Glad to see him at 10. Could be pushing Manie, and that bomb of a kick from the half way line was an opening statement of intent.
I was really disappointed in Kwagga. Just not a starter. He only seem to do better towards the end of the game.
Dud wasn't much better than AE, not much happening for 12. Roos had a good game but for me he lacks that Vermeulen torque, not able to bash more than one player back.
PSDT had a good outing as captain.
Ox tail is pure class. This guy might not have the height or wait but really solid.
Muchunu has gotten even bigger than I could remember.
Will be a head scratcher for starting props or even the top 4.
Steenkamp, Ox, Muchunu, Louw, Thomas the tank. The Malherbe and Kittshoff are still in the back ground. Each one of these fat blokes can walk into any international team.
RG and Pollard will be back. They couldn't play because of club commitment. But the English players should be well rested for the Ireland game.
Then, the Saarks, if the play it right will have a really good backline axis.
Fassi to me was amazing taking high kicks. Didn't join the line as often as Willie, but maybe Willie can teach him a thing or two before he hangs up his boots. But Fassi was class.
Great to see Edwill giving the other hot steppers a go for their money. Cheslin Who?
Back to the Saarks.
To think they could play.
Williams, Masuka, AE, Am, Fassi
Or
Hendrikse, Hendrikse, Hooker, Fassi
With Hendrikse cover 10 , 12 and 15
Hooker covering 12, 13 and 11 and 14.
Expecting a lot from the Saarks next season
Hendrikse is a good option at 12 to….he was mostly behind nohamba in playing Flyhalf, but was mostly in the starting 23 for the lions ….so although he had a nervous start, he did find his kicking radar. His defence and general back line play was good as the game progressed … so definitely a Guy you want there and just like Sacha he can play 12…A player that proved me wrong was Moerat….he actually made a good impact when he came on. Ben was also solid…..and I agree with Pakie & Shark that AE did not put a foot wrong….his slick hands in fast down the line passes, ensured tries being scored….he was strong in defence and also in support play at the rucks. DDA did his part to, but not better than AE….will the Squad for the Irish tour be announced tonight?
That incident at minute 72 was classic Dud….you could see his total confusion. The brain froze. The net of Dud’s game was 4 runs for 9 meters ….about the Dud average….leading to nothing.
Classic mozzietard bias. The drivel re Allende never seems to dry up. I might have missed it but has mozzie gone quiet on Du Toit. Thrown in the towel?
I thought exactly the same thing at the time. You can actually see the confusion in his body language.
The DDA supporters are too far down the road at this point. The moment they perceive AE had a weak game they're massively relieved. Case in point.
As EggChasers said --> Rassie said he was selecting his best side from the available players. And he started AE.
Strangely, I don't hear anyone saying Bongi is better than Marx...or that Eben isn't good enough. But AE didn't set the world on fire yesterday, so it must mean he sucks.
His best side was the match 23. EG Bongi on form would have stared from the underdone Marx.
To jump to conclusions that Rassie now suddenly thinks AE is his best 2 is nonsense.
AE wasted his chance to grab the 12 jersey.
Plumpster why the pretentious change of name? Echoes of mozzietard changing is name for a while.
Having just watched that game on telly DA was definitely more impactful than Esterhuizen and that’s a fact
Great offload and good physical presence
Esterhuizen was certainly not poor he just never took the opportunity to set his mark on the game
This bullshit that Hendrikse was poor is complete rubbish he had a solid debut - came close twice to slipping past defenders and had his backhand pass worked it was try time
He is a quality player with a good work ethic, gets stuck in
One kick directly into touch….minus 40 metres
One turnover conceded …minus 20 meters
One turnover effected…20 positive meters
Nine meters in 4 runs
Equals 31 meters lost via Dud Allende. A quality player who got stuck in and lost 31 net meters. Great!
Dave and DDA. The blind leading the blind. That was two Bok backs against the Welsh 8 out wide, in case you're wondering about opportunity lost.
And the cut to Rassie's face right after that kick 
...and look who is at 2 and 3...Fassi and Edwin.
If you're not gonna pass to your fastest guys when they're on an overlap and you're winning the game by a good margin...then when will you pass to them?
These are all things that that our supposed rugby geniuses miss.
When did DA concede a turnover?
He was only on for a third of the time Esterhuizen was and beat far more defenders in that time
That photo says fuck all Pakie as it shows no wider view of Welsh cover just like the photo of Rassie says fuck all
DA was better than Esterhuizen if you can’t admit that you are either blind or blindly prejudicial
Here's the Welsh cover Dave - they were all stuck center field, this is the only guy that made it wide. You have to back your runners off turnover ball. That kick went way too deep to cause any hassles. It has already bounced on this shot, no Bok was even in the frame when it landed, that's how uselessly deep it went.
DA was better than Esterhuizen if you can’t admit that you are either blind or blindly prejudicial
You're welcome to your view, Dave. Just like Ou Maaik who still brings up an U20 knock on from 10 years ago to diss Esterhuizen, you never change your mind once you get married to a narrative.
I rate Esterhuizen highly but the fact is he had an average outing. It was his opportunity to put a marker down and challenge DA - he failed
Had DA’s kick been a few inches less it would have been a great kick - 50/22?
The photo shows that had DDA done what is impossible for him, IE pass to the wide players, Fassi and Edwil would have been in a 2 v 1 on the Welsh defender.
Esterhuizen gets about one test start a year, Dave. Hardly a fair opportunity to show anyone anything.
Had DA’s kick been a few inches less it would have been a great kick - 50/22?
I'm not a proponent of kicking for touch with turnover ball when you have a lopsided overlap in your favour outside of you.
Wrong thread.
Thread who ?
I made a post there that was not meant for this thread. Don't complicate my errors with obscure questions, Blob.
I have a lisp.
Agree DDA should have pass the ball with 2 speedsters on his right….AE would have passed, Willemse would have passed, but DDA does not off load enough …he can’t kick to save his life…he shouldn’t be put in a situation where he has to think, best for him is just to carry in traffic or just pass the ball….maybe it’s his new Porn moustache that hindered him :)
Mozart missed the plot totally insofar as De Allende is concrned - hte ball was out because it his the chalk - half a meter in the Springboks would be deep in the Wales 22 wit a chance to th row in the ball at the line-out and even Mostert mi ght ahve won it for a change. it was a strategic kick that within inches missed target - and Mzart is too prejudiced to even look at anything constructively. He found a player guilty of oor play justa s h e exciused a number fo hsi favorite players of t he past causing havioc for the team - that kick did not have the same pathetic results as happened ikn the case of many such kicks launched by for instance Morne Steyn, who was a regular in missing line kicks.
At least De Allende had a reason for making that kick - the rest of his comment is BS. In rality Esterhuizen did nothing in the test and what is funny the backline was a better attacking unit without Esterhuizen on the field.
So up come another brilliant one - the flyhalf was a rookie while Esterhuizen was playing - was the fact that De Allende had the same problem and did better in 15 minutes than Esterhuizen did in 65 minutes he played.
We have had this discussion on Erasmus since 2018 and De Allende and Du Toit since 2014. All the three did was according to posters wrong and undermining of the Springboks as a team. Sane people will call that BS.
There was nothing strategic about that kick….it was unnecessary, because he had two fast players to his right and a overlap…..why oh why would you decide to kick?? Does not make sense at all.
nee ouMaaik
Does anybody know what this means...
"He found a player guilty of oor play justa s h e exciused a number fo hsi favorite players of t he past causing havioc for the team - that kick did not have the same pathetic results as happened in"
?
hte ball was out because it his the chalk - half a meter in the Springboks would be deep in the Wales 22 wit a chance to th row in the ball at the line-out and even Mostert mi ght ahve won it for a change
So...I kick the ball out in general play, I get the throw?
that kick did not have the same pathetic results as happened ikn the case of many such kicks launched by for instance Morne Steyn
If Morne kicked away an overlap from turnover ball like that, both you and Dave would have crushed him.
In rality Esterhuizen did nothing in the test and what is funny the backline was a better attacking unit without Esterhuizen on the field.
Show us where - where did Esterhuizen impede the functioning of the backline, and where did DDA improve it? Did you watch the Mapimpi try? Smoothest backline attack of the day.
DDA didn't get the ball in one conventional backline move. Here are his touches in general play where he is a pass receiver:
58:58 - kicks directly into touch from turnover ball with a 3 on 2 overlap outside
66:40 - inside pass to Sasha in phase play
80:21 - receives pass from quick tap, runs laterally and offloads to Sasha in space
80:29 - catches offload from Kwagga, throws short inside pass to Moerat
So how was the backline a better attacking unit, those being DA's only interactions from passes? The offload was good to Sasha running off him - but that was already after full time. In the entire 20 minutes before that DDA caught one pass and flicked it back inside to his flyhalf - that's it. That's what your "better attacking unit" is based on. Esterhuizen made two such passes inside to his flyhalf in his time on the field, it's routine. You guys keep telling us all this shit about "backline functioning better with DDA", but you can't show us one concrete play with which to back up your assertions.
Go ahead and give us some idiot media sportswriter's player ratings again, that's usually what you lot fall back on when you get painted into a corner.
Does anybody know what this means...
"He found a player guilty of oor play justa s h e exciused a number fo hsi favorite players of t he past causing havioc for the team - that kick did not have the same pathetic results as happened in"
?
Someone has guessed ou Maaik's password again.
‘Havioc’ was reputedly first used by Ghengis Khan and later adopted in it’s modern form ‘havoc’ by Vlad the Impaler.
I love how Pakie lays out the evidence very clearly on this thread, but it's not enough.
"DDA was amazing!"
Mike trying to tell us that it's a good idea to kick when you have a two man overlap and can basically get all the way upfield with 100% chance of retaining the ball and an extremely high chance of scoring.
Saffex telling us that his article is "the truth" while the article bigs up DDA's kicking game, after he kicked once, directly into touch.
We ask for evidence, it never comes. We provide ours, it's alway ignored in favour of every logical fallacy under the sun.
Oh, well, at least Mike's unintentional use of archaic root words provides some entertainment.
The fact is - all you Esterhuizen above DA fans have been let down by your boy - now that is the fact regardless of a kick that was inches away from being a 50/22
Esterhuizen had everything to prove but fucked up. It was his opportunity to lay down his marker. All he did was confirm that DA is and always has been the better option at 12 for the Boks
Fact
Harsh saying AE fucked up which he didn’t….it was not a spectacular performance from him, but also not from DA. AE did everything correctly and was really busy sending the ball down the line with slick and fast passes…..Solid on defence and everything else….as you said yourself that the role of a modern day 12 is more to carry in traffic , assist at rucks to secure possession, not to be flashy…..this argument has been used on numerous occasions to justify DA,s worth….why all of sudden is AE judge on a different standard, where he did everything a DA wil do + he passes the ball way more than DA?
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