Springbok World Cup Squad 8 August - Who would you pick who do yo think the coaches will pick

So the final test before the World Cup squad being announced on 8 August. It leaves us with the last test match against Argentina. To date, I have not seen an A team vs a B team but some really questionable selections and lack of selection for certain players. There are only 12 test in a year, as an international coach you should pick your best players at all time where possible including player work load. That said, the last 18 months have given us no indication of who should go. I have seen any decent combinations being formed at all. 

Here is the list of the current players with the players I think are dead certain no matter what and those I believe will not make the squad. 

Prop, Hooker, Lock, Loose forward, Scrumhalf and outside backs are the ones I have no clue what the coaches are thinking. Then we also have the wonderful selection head ache of reaching quotas. 

Props

So a guy like Du Toit might loose out to fat Trev. A guy like Kleyn, might loose out to Orie and Mostert. Steenkamp will not get selected

Hooker

Bongi and Marx are the two main hookers, Dwebe has potential. Fourie is a loose forward and hasn't played at hooker since 2017 6 years. Why is he in the team. Would you trust him as your hooker in a World Cup final? 

Locks 

Orie should even be in the World Cup squad, we have so many quality locks. The Lood, only got 40 min of game time before being yanked off the field against NZ, he was meant to start on Saturday but is sick. Do we need 6 locks, probably only 4, with PSDT cover lock. I would drop Mostert and Orie. We don't need 5 locks. 

Loose forward

Roos and JL Du Preez will definitely not be on the plane. We will see wee Kwagga and an injured Kolisi travel to the World Cup and he might not even play a single game. I would have not selected Kolisi as he hasn't played a single game and we are 4 weeks out from the World Cup. You can't recover fast in time. The we have Fourie, most likely to get the nod ahead of Dwebe. Unlucky, as I think Dwebe could have benefitted from being at the World Cup.

Scrumhalf

Hendrikse has not played a single game and thanks to the Wisdom of the coaches, hasn't been selected. If he gets in the squad I'll pull my hair out. I rate this guy and he has a long future. But with not playing at all is a no no in my book. I see Jantjies getting the pine on Sat and probably our weakest scrumhalf right now.

Flyhalf

This has been a shit show from day one. We rely too much no Pollard, he is injured and haven't played a single game since April. We only have Libbok and Willemse have shown time and again he is not a 10. We had the opportunity to bring Robert Du Preez back as well as Goosen. Not that I'm saying Goosen is a pick, we then have Jantjies that did even make the match day 23. So we only gave game time to Libbok and Willemse. Very poor management 

Centers

I do think Estershuizen will be the unlucky one as Willemse can cover 12 as well as Pollard. 

However, should we pick players that have not played a single game or with very few minutes of games played? I watched the game again yesterday and to be honest, Kriel didn't do anything spectacular but was really solid. Our defence stood well with him at 13. I would almost opt for 4 specialist centres and mark Willemse as a Reserve fullback. 

Outside Backs

Mpimpi will get another crack, but I don't think he should go. Then, Arendse wasn't as effective against Argentina and neither were Kolbe able to combine well. I don't think we need 2 players that are very similar. So me Moodie gets the nod. He makes a lot of meters, doesn't get shunted to touch easily and can cover full back and 13. Also the youngest player in the team and would be great to have him there. I would definitely drop Mpimpi, he has great back story, he got his glory. But time to move on. 

My 33 would be

15. Willie / Gelant

14/11. Mapimpi / Moodie / Kolbe / Arendse

13/12. Am / JVR / de Allende / Esterhuizen / Willemse

10. Pollard / Libbok

9. Faf / Williams

1/3. Kitshoff / Ox / Malherbe / Thomas du Toit / Wilco Louw

2. Marx / Mbonambi

4/5. Etzebeth / Lood / Jenkins / RG Snyman

6/7/8. Kolisi / Kwagga / PSDT / JL du Preez / Roos / Wiese / Dan du Preez

Standby:

Fassi

Tambwe

Kriel

Serfontein

Jantjies

Hendrikse

Gerhard Steenkamp

Dweba

Koch

Kleyn

Ruben v Heerden

v Staaden

Elrigh Louw

The average age of your certain picks is 30.3. The typical WC winning team is 28. And that’s being generous Willemse and Libbok won’t start….leaving our starters close to 31in average age.

I believe in experience but what we are seeing is complacency. Harrassmiss has not managed a normal development cycle, after the WC our rugby is about to fall off a cliff.

Moz these players are all pretty much in their prime and it makes sense that we invested in them

Post the WC we need to move on

We definitely should have introduced more youngsters in the past 4 years instead of seeing the likes of Jessie Kriel, Reinach, Koch, Nyakane, Mostert, Orie, Elstadt, Frans Steyn and Fourie that have been used

That is 9 youngsters that could have been identified and invested in

Well at the end of this WC Thor and Deon will most likely retire …maybe some other players to…. What will the plan be to build our Player Stock for the Future?

Post WC we need to see investment in the likes of:

15. Gelant / Fassi / David Kriel

14/11. Nkosi / Moodie / Arendse / Tambwe / Green / Jacobs / Davids/ Penxe / Pienaar

13/12. Marnus Potgieter / Henko v Wyk/ Similane / Xamlashe / Sebastian de Klerk/ Rickus Pretorious / Willemse / Mollentze / Sherwood / Julius

10. Libbok / Lombard / Hendrikse / Chamberlain / Sacha

9. Hendrikse / Williams / Nohamba / Jantjies / Papier / Burger / vd Bergh

1/3. Ox / Steenkamp / Boan Venter / Matanzima / Mchunu / Thomas / Wilco / Sadie / Klopper / Ig Prinsloo

2. Dweba / Grobelaar / Wessels / Kotze / Hugo Venter

4/5. Jenkins / RG / Moerat / Ruben Schoeman / Ruben v Heerden / Ruan Vermaak / Nortje / Andre Smith / JF v Heerden / Evans / JD Schickerling / Walt Steenkamp

6/7/8. Buthelezi / v Staaden / James Venter / Theuinessen / JL du Preez / Ackerman / Liebenberg / Kobus Wiese / Ruan Venter / Vincent Tsituka / Jason-Dixon / Roos / Elrigh Louw/ Jaco Coetzee / Wiese / Dan du Preez / Emmanuel Tsituka / Dayamani / Augustus

Good group of players.

Would like to see...though not all are in the squad and some nowhere near the Boks.

9 Williams

10 Libbok...unless Pollard is fit

11 Nkosi(even though I kinda dislike him)

12 AE

13 Fasi

14 Moodie

15 Willie

Another 2 I would like to see in the Bok System is Dan du plessis and Kade Wolhuter

Saffex, I like the list of players you mentioned but I'm just looking at those in the squad. I agree that there are a number of players that should have been integrated into the team but we are stuck with the current crop. 

So out of this lot, who would be your 33?

Nienhaber says on Superport that he feels the Boks are where they want to be ( Ja right ranked 4 th) and they will start looking for continuity in Selection for the Wales game….HOW can a international coach look for Continuity 2 Warm up games before the WC??? What a load of hogwash, R&N should rather say nothing in a small effort to sound less Stupid.

: ) oops

Plum - Fassi at 13??? The guy that was sent home from the Boks to work on his defence - I think not

King my 33 would be:

15. Gelant / Fassi

14/11. Nkosi / Tambwe / Arendse / Moodie

13/12. Xamlashe / Marnus Potgieter / Similane / Willemse / Rickus Pretorious

10. Libbok / Sacha

9. Williams / Nohamba / Hendrikse

1/3. Steenkamp / Ox / Sadie / Klopper

2. Dweba / Grobelaar

4/5. Jenkins / Moerat / RG / Ruben v Heerden

6/7/8. Buthelezi / v Staaden / JL du Preez / Ruan Venter / Vincent Tsituka / Roos / Elrigh Louw

Good young side of:

15. Gelant

14. Nkosi

13. Xamlashe

12. Willemse

11. Arendse

10. Libbok

9. Williams

1. Steenkamp

2. Dweba

3. Sadie

4. Jenkins

5. RG

6. v Staaden

7. JL du Preez

8. Roos

16. Grobelaar 17. Matanzima 18. Klopper 19. Ruben v Heerden 20. Dan du Preez 21. Hendrikse 22. Sacha 23. Similane

What is klopper,s name?

Francois Klopper? Tight head from the Bulls, good talent.

Yeah that’s him - good prospect

Better than Mornay Smith who Jake seems to prefer

Mornay smith is not bad, but a bit light for a Tighthead….Francois is strong in the scrum and strong ball carrier….we really do have a good talent pool, Rassie must start pulling in these guys .

I’m not a fan of props that lack bulk and grunt - same applies to locks

Besides Mostert right ? : )

Don’t get him started, Mpower !! 

Yip you right Becs, I will nod and agree : )

Just looked at this Klopper, on paper he seems like a beast. To be honest, I wasn’t paying close attention to the props or locks. Normally look at the loose forwards and backs. Hooker is one area I also look at and then of course the line outs. 

I do think we neglect the importance of props and how it can shape the game. There is nothing better than a dominant scrum. Refs and world rugby fucked this up

Again, they are using the test matches to dial in the team and trial players. They have turned the boks into one big experiment. 

If you are not selecting your best team, should it even be called a test?

I see England 15 playing Wales. They are all test players but the don’t call it a test match.

Which this game against Argentina should be. 

Also, fans are suspect of the boks. Never seen Ellis park so empty for a test match

As bad as Erasputin is, I'm extremely grateful that he is the coach and not Saddex. Saddex would be Straeuli, but the Shameless version of him. 

Yeah I always look at props, locks and centres

If you have those sorted you are halfway there

Hence me having no time for lightweights Mostert and Orie

Yeah, I follow the props I know, but for some reason the bulls scrum didn't impress me much this year or maybe I tend pay close attention. Will do it in the new season. 

On paper, the do have some prime beef in that pack. 

Hope Jake stops his musical chairs and allow the guys to settle into a grove. Send the youngster north so that they can grind it out on the away games. 

Also add Grobler and Jan Hendrik Wessels and becomes a formidable front row. 

If Nortje can put on another 10 kg in the off season or even 20 kg, They Louw and Van Staden at the back. 

Hope to see that bull dominant pack we saw back in 2022 that destroyed the Irish teams. They weren't as physical last season

Saffex your 1st choice 33 is a very good one.

"My 33 would be

15. Willie / Gelant

14/11. Mapimpi / Moodie / Kolbe / Arendse

13/12. Am / JVR / de Allende / Esterhuizen / Willemse

10. Pollard / Libbok

9. Faf / Williams

1/3. Kitshoff / Ox / Malherbe / Thomas du Toit / Wilco Louw

2. Marx / Mbonambi

4/5. Etzebeth / Lood / Jenkins / RG Snyman

6/7/8. Kolisi / Kwagga / PSDT / JL du Preez / Roos / Wiese / Dan du Preez

Standby:

Fassi

Tambwe

Kriel

Serfontein

Jantjies

Hendrikse

Gerhard Steenkamp

Dweba

Koch

Kleyn

Ruben v Heerden

v Staaden

Elrigh Louw"

Saffex for coach Seb

At this stage our WC hinges on Pollard recovering soon enough to get some form before the knockouts. Libbok is brilliant in space but the Boks will never play his kind of game eg facing France in the Quarters.

Agree Saffex to coach Seb.

Nice one Moz :)

Agreed on Pollard - he is vital to our cause

haha saf, I certainly don't patrionize you but give credit when it's due.Simple I just like a common sense selection as it stands...there is no magic wand selection at the moment, only common sense.

Agreed Seb it’s not brain science

Libbok is a turnstyle who will crab. The way he was dragged to the middle of the field and dumped in both of the last tests was appalling. He is another Goosen. Pollard is our best bet. It's Jantjies as the next best. But, we aren't structured in a way that maximises a good 10. So it's about a 10 who can physically hold his own, and a 9 who dictates our play. Our 9s outside of Hendrickse and Williams are appallingly bad. Those two are not exactly the best we've ever produced, but they are the most fundamentally sound. 

Look Libbok made a blunder there and was man handled by the replacement scrum half with Red hair….I think….but he is like moz said good in space and in traffic good distribution…and importantly the games that he did start, we won…the last win was appalling though…how can Jantjies after such a time out of Bok/ Top Tier Rugby just be expected to perform, it might be a total blunder….he should have gotten some game time already….Rassie is trying with Libbok to play a more Attack style Game and I am all for it….Pollard will most probably play against Wales to get a start in preparation for WC and that is good….Agree we do need him for WC as our chance’s of Success will increase…Magic Wand Selection should not happen, rather a healthy System/ Structure that allows more integration of the next Generation Bok Rugby Players…this will prevent that you sit with a Much older Squad that is more lethargic.

Doos are you by any chance being a little negative about our players?

But hey don’t worry - Morne was great and Kwagga is our most valuable player

Bwhaaahaaaaaa

Idiot

Web, good team. But I think you might have to drop 2 players to put in an additional hooker and scrum half. 

The centres, outside backs and loose forwards are the obvious ones. 

Is it a good idea to have Deon Fourie as a back up hooker \ open sider?

I’m also concerned that Orie will get on the plane given that his had so much game time. He is not there for rugby reasons

I predict this will be Rassies match 33.
This is not much different from the side I would choose, taking into consideration game time and form for the Boks. 
Kolisi and Pollard might not even be ready for the World Cup . 

15. Willie / Willemse (utility back on the bench)

14/11. Kolbe / Arendse
 Moodie /Mapimpi /        (Most of these wings can also play fullback if needed)

13. AM /Kriel

12. Esterhuizen/ Delande

10. Libbok/Pollard/   (Not sure Pollard will make it). 
9.  Williams /Faf /Hendrikse
8. Vermuelen/ Wiese
7. PSDT /Kwagga
6. Kolisi/Van Staden
4/5. Etzebeth  / RG Snyman / Klein / Lood
3 Malherbe / Thomas du Toit / Koch
2. Marx / Mbonambi
1 .OX/ Kitshoff / Nykane 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Starting team would be:

15. Willie
14/ Kolbe
13. AM 
12. Esterhuizen
10. Libbok

9.  Williams 
8. Vermuelen
7. PSDT 
6. Van Staden   
5 RG Snyman 
4. Etzebeth  
3 Thomas du Toit 
2. Marx 
1 Nykane (Some of the tight five have to be transformed)

Bench
Faff
Damien Willemse
Moodie  (Pollard if he recovers from injury)

Kitshoff (Might have to be OX for transformation)
Bongi
Thomas Dutoit
Klein
Wiese
---

Libbok is poor reading play, poor under any kind of pressure and has zero physical presence. He doesn't do anything especially well on attack. A scripted pass from pre-determined phase sequences is nothing special. He is a big fat zero in a backline that has shown nothing. 

The coaches are completely brain dead. Libboks recent kicking woes have not really helped his cause at all. 

His kicking boot imploded during the URC finals and cost the Stormers a few games and the final.

Then they have been messing around with Willemse who is even worse as a kicker. Our next option is Faf or Kolbe who are not kickers. 

How do you go to the world cup with out a kicker. 

Robert Du Preez is one of the leading kickers in the prem. Even though Goosen have been out of form, his place kicking is still above 85%. What was the point of having Elton in camp when they could have roped in a back up kicker 

Manie,s kicking to poles, is a great concern….you cannot thro away that many points in a WC and expect to win….but the other side he brings in his pace, distribution and his pin point kick passes is also good…it also really bugs me why Tassie would bring Elton back and not give him any Game Time?? What’s the use of that? We really in a sticky spot with our Flyhalfs.

.

I read on Sa Rugby mag that Kollisi is set to make his return against wales but Pollard is only expected to be ready for our second pool stage game against Romania on 17 Sept. Well looks like Libbok is our Pivot for now.

Libbok is a very, very sad state of affairs. This is the worst-case scenario. What a reward for such shambolic performances. A s for Kolisi, at his best, he is a very poor loose forward; after an injury lay-off? Do you feel confident? Pollard is worth a chance, as his ceiling is much higher than anyone else's. 

So here is my final picks based on this Saturdays match. 

Props

Kittshoff, Ox, Malherbe, Koch, Thomas Du Toit

Hooker

Marx, Bongi, Dweeb 

Locks 

Etzebeth, Kleyn, RG, PSDT

Back row

Van Staden, Vermeulen, Kwagga, Wiese, Jean Luc, (Kolisi)

Scrum half

Faf, Reinach, Williams

Flyhalf

Libbok, Willemse, (Pollard)

Centres

Esterhuizen, Kriel, Am, De Allende 

Outside backs

Willie, Kolbe, Moodie, Arendse 

We have 3 players that have touched a ball yet this season in Ox, Kolisi and Am. 

If Ox doesn’t make it then Am should get a crack. 

I have moved PSDT to lock and want a more imposing physical 7. Jean Luc is my pick, but Vermeulen can go there too. 

Roos is the one player I want there but he is not versatile enough and I don’t want to have 3 eight man when we have Kwagga that can cover 8. 

No room for Orie or Lomp in my team 

I also don’t see the value of having Deon Fourie, penalty machine.

I hope Kolisi can get time and be fit in time. 

I left ou Hendrikse because he hasn’t played at all. 

Pollard and the lack of a backup flyhalf is my biggest concern 

I would have also like to try Marx at 6

Why do you want Kolisi in the team? 

Simple.

He will be in the team for his performance in singing the national anthem.

Absolute bullshit - the absence of Kolisi has just proven how much he has been missed

Kwagga was a poor substitute against NZ, he was embarrassing. v Staaden was good against Oz but a non entity against the Argies, as was Fourie against the Argies

Kolisi is by far our best 6 and is a great leader

Fact

We should have tried Marx at 6 ages ago…he is athletic enough to cover the ground and clearly our best fetcher against the big boys. Kolisi is a symbol who does something useful by accident every 4 games or so,

Bullshit Kolisi is a class player and we are missing him big time right now as we are Pollard

We miss him in the choir. But he must lead by telepathy…. I have never heard him say anything relevant, nor ever seen him take a player aside and tell him what he wants.

I've seen him standing around watching Eben rallying the troops, and yanking on the refs shorts timidly trying to get his attention. 

Moz we know nothing about the players as leaders as we are not privy to that inner circle

Kolisi is a born leader - one only needs to listen to his interviews

Can’t say the same for Eben.

The team love him as their captain

Moz we know nothing about the players as leaders.... 

Kolisi is a born leader

Wow, that's a bit of an own goal, even by Saddex's standards! 

I see Mallet and Swys both have Orie in their World Cup team. Neither of them rate Kleyn, but I wonder because they are under the thumb and need to show support for darker players.