I have gone through every player in the list. As they say, form is temporary and class is forever. That said, we have a lot of players in the squad their on reputation. Many had few minutes of test rugby and some have also not been there for their clubs either. When you look at the top teams, you see all the big names like Depont, Sexton, Ringrose to name a few performing for both club and country. If anything, they are even better at club. Ntmak and Depond are insanely good for their clubs.
Yet at the boks, we have have players playing in 3 different continents. A 3rd or our key players has taken early pension in Japan. Here is my ratings and why.
On average, our team form is 5.6. It has showed in our performance to date and by now we should know who our 1 and 2's are. I'm afraid to say but based on what I have seen, it will be a short World Cup.
My opinion may change if the boks blow both Wales and NZ in the next two World Cup warm up games, but you can't read too much into those. They are desperate for confidence boosters but losing two games before the World Cup could mean a pool exit. If I was New Zealand I would be salivating at the prospect of beating the boks 3 times in one year and not take my foot off.
The boks have shown that they can handle a fast pace game at the start or if teams come back in the 2nd half at them. To many points conceded in 20 min and their concentration isn't there. On average the bleed 17 points in a space of 20 min. The need to stop this faster.
Joseph Dweba
Hooker
25 October 1995 (age 27)
3
Stormers
5
5
His general play is fine, but his scrumming and line out throw has been really poor. Cost the Stormers a lot of momentum and count himself lucky. He did better for the boks, but as a hooker, you have to hit your jumpers
Deon Fourie
Hooker
25 September 1986 (age 36)
5
Stormers
5
7
Not a hooker, he didn’t feature that much for the stormers, but had one super cameo off the bench for the boks against aus, but just gave away too many penalties against Argentina. Never been tested against the best. Shouldn’t be there
Malcolm Marx
Hooker
13 July 1994 (age 29)
61
Kubota Spears
7
9
I though Marx did well for the boks but still suffering from ring rust. His name kept popping up in the top league high lights. But it is Japan.
Bongi Mbonambi
Hooker
7 January 1991 (age 32)
58
Sharks
6
6
I don’t think Bongi been bad, but he is getting on in years and not as fit, limited game time at the sharks
Thomas du Toit
Prop
5 May 1995 (age 28)
17
Sharks
6
6
Been shifting between tight and loose, solid player and our best 3rd choice prop in both positions, can play an entire game
Steven Kitshoff
Prop
10 February 1992 (age 31)
74
Stormers
7
8
The Stormers scrum and his general play around the park is what sets him apart, did well for the boks, but feel he was over used and travelled way to much during the test window.
Vincent Koch
Prop
13 March 1990 (age 33)
44
Stade Français
6
?
Very good scrummager, solid around the park, lost his club, limited game time. Is he a starter, no
Frans Malherbe
Prop
14 March 1991 (age 32)
61
Stormers
5
7
Had a few belly flops in the test, our scrum wasn’t that dominant, but probably because he has Orie behind him. Did well at the stormers. I real anchor in the scrum and you can see the difference when he is not there
Ox Nché
Prop
23 July 1995 (age 28)
19
Sharks
0
6
Ox started the season well, but had a number of interruptions. No international form to speak of, risk, may only last 20 min
Trevor Nyakane
Prop
4 May 1989 (age 34)
60
Racing 92
5
?
Trev general play was fine, his scrumming was fine, nothing negative, but 34 and not sure how much fit he is
Lood de Jager
Lock
17 December 1992 (age 30)
66
Saitama Wild Knights
3
?
Completely bombed in the first test, not sure what his form is like in Japan. When he is fit, a few matches under his belt, yes. He would be fine.
Eben Etzebeth
Lock
29 October 1991 (age 31)
112
Sharks
8
9
What a player he is, just a different beast for the sharks when fit. Doesn’t need game time, immediate impact for both the Sharks and Boks. Our best player by a mile. But we need 5 more players like him
Jean Kleyn
Lock
26 August 1993 (age 29)
1
Munster
7
9
He was really solid for the boks, never let us down and rightfully included. The reason why Munster won.
Franco Mostert
Lock
27 November 1990 (age 32)
64
Mie Honda Heat
3
?
Oh, don’t get me started on him. His name didn’t pop up in Japan. Terrible as a 7, did better at lock, but give us no physical hard edge
Marvin Orie
Lock
15 February 1993 (age 30)
13
Stormers
4
4
Useless for the stormers, between him and Dwebe, they lost so many line outs, no steals to speak of, looks good when he touches the ball and pass, but doesn’t do the real work. Shouldn’t be there
RG Snyman
Lock
29 January 1995 (age 28)
26
Munster
6
8
Had some decent cameos, want to see him play a full match. Made some mistakes on defence and handling errors. Did well for Munster when he came on.
Jean-Luc du Preez
Loose forward
5 August 1995 (age 28)
13
Sale Sharks
6
8
Little time in the green and gold, but did well in his 20 min that he played in. Way more effective than Mostert
Pieter-Steph du Toit
Loose forward
20 August 1992 (age 30)
69
Toyota Verblitz
6
?
Been playing at 10, his team made the finals. Solid at the back, main creator for the boks, but shaky under the high ball, doesn’t have his pace anymore to get around players
Siya Kolisi (c)
Loose forward
16 June 1991 (age 32)
75
Sharks
0
9
Before his injury he was on fire, been out for several months and not right to drop him straying into test rugby, thinking he will win the world cup. Not an Eben
Evan Roos
Loose forward
21 January 2000 (age 23)
4
Stormers
6
6
He had some injuries that kept him out, did well against his first game against Connacht but the then struggled with more injuries and less impact. Was asked to play 7 and limited game time. Got over the white wash twice, not shy of contact
Kwagga Smith
Loose forward
11 June 1993 (age 30)
33
Shizuoka Blue Revs
4
?
A bit part players, doesn’t have a real position. Been playing 8 in Japan. Don’t think he had any impact for the boks. Only showed up in the last 10 min when the game was lost against the all blacks
Marco van Staden
Loose forward
25 August 1995 (age 27)
12
Bulls
7
5
Was really poor filling the shoes of Marcel Coetzee, struggled in a poor season for the bulls. Test against Australia was to drawer but average in his 2nd test against the bargies
0
Deus Ex Lemur
Senior player
2,348 posts
Posted by: Deus Ex Lemur (2348 posts)
Aug 11, 2023, 12:05
If an opponent performs well and we beat them comfortably, then it's a good marker. The performances need to be analysed for what they are and put in context. I very rarely see that from anyone.
kingcorn
Senior player
2,922 posts
Posted by: kingcorn (2922 posts)
Aug 11, 2023, 12:41
Well, I think the overall squad form is 5.6. Will get you pass the 6th rank team but not against the top 4 teams in the world. Which the boks can count themselves very lucky to be in that group. 38% loss record in 17 test. only 63%.
Only beaten on of the top 3 once in the last 2 years. Lost to France, Ireland and New Zealand.
Australia beat them twice, so it is not a good place to be in and so did Wales.
Rassie have had the the World Cup halo protecting him too long. He should have been dropped last year.
We need a coaching overhaul as well as the management
2,922 posts
I have gone through every player in the list. As they say, form is temporary and class is forever. That said, we have a lot of players in the squad their on reputation. Many had few minutes of test rugby and some have also not been there for their clubs either. When you look at the top teams, you see all the big names like Depont, Sexton, Ringrose to name a few performing for both club and country. If anything, they are even better at club. Ntmak and Depond are insanely good for their clubs.
Yet at the boks, we have have players playing in 3 different continents. A 3rd or our key players has taken early pension in Japan. Here is my ratings and why.
On average, our team form is 5.6. It has showed in our performance to date and by now we should know who our 1 and 2's are. I'm afraid to say but based on what I have seen, it will be a short World Cup.
My opinion may change if the boks blow both Wales and NZ in the next two World Cup warm up games, but you can't read too much into those. They are desperate for confidence boosters but losing two games before the World Cup could mean a pool exit. If I was New Zealand I would be salivating at the prospect of beating the boks 3 times in one year and not take my foot off.
The boks have shown that they can handle a fast pace game at the start or if teams come back in the 2nd half at them. To many points conceded in 20 min and their concentration isn't there. On average the bleed 17 points in a space of 20 min. The need to stop this faster.
Joseph Dweba
Hooker
25 October 1995 (age 27)
3
Stormers
5
5
His general play is fine, but his scrumming and line out throw has been really poor. Cost the Stormers a lot of momentum and count himself lucky. He did better for the boks, but as a hooker, you have to hit your jumpers
Deon Fourie
Hooker
25 September 1986 (age 36)
5
Stormers
5
7
Not a hooker, he didn’t feature that much for the stormers, but had one super cameo off the bench for the boks against aus, but just gave away too many penalties against Argentina. Never been tested against the best. Shouldn’t be there
Malcolm Marx
Hooker
13 July 1994 (age 29)
61
Kubota Spears
7
9
I though Marx did well for the boks but still suffering from ring rust. His name kept popping up in the top league high lights. But it is Japan.
Bongi Mbonambi
Hooker
7 January 1991 (age 32)
58
Sharks
6
6
I don’t think Bongi been bad, but he is getting on in years and not as fit, limited game time at the sharks
Thomas du Toit
Prop
5 May 1995 (age 28)
17
Sharks
6
6
Been shifting between tight and loose, solid player and our best 3rd choice prop in both positions, can play an entire game
Steven Kitshoff
Prop
10 February 1992 (age 31)
74
Stormers
7
8
The Stormers scrum and his general play around the park is what sets him apart, did well for the boks, but feel he was over used and travelled way to much during the test window.
Vincent Koch
Prop
13 March 1990 (age 33)
44
Stade Français
6
?
Very good scrummager, solid around the park, lost his club, limited game time. Is he a starter, no
Frans Malherbe
Prop
14 March 1991 (age 32)
61
Stormers
5
7
Had a few belly flops in the test, our scrum wasn’t that dominant, but probably because he has Orie behind him. Did well at the stormers. I real anchor in the scrum and you can see the difference when he is not there
Ox Nché
Prop
23 July 1995 (age 28)
19
Sharks
0
6
Ox started the season well, but had a number of interruptions. No international form to speak of, risk, may only last 20 min
Trevor Nyakane
Prop
4 May 1989 (age 34)
60
Racing 92
5
?
Trev general play was fine, his scrumming was fine, nothing negative, but 34 and not sure how much fit he is
Lood de Jager
Lock
17 December 1992 (age 30)
66
Saitama Wild Knights
3
?
Completely bombed in the first test, not sure what his form is like in Japan. When he is fit, a few matches under his belt, yes. He would be fine.
Eben Etzebeth
Lock
29 October 1991 (age 31)
112
Sharks
8
9
What a player he is, just a different beast for the sharks when fit. Doesn’t need game time, immediate impact for both the Sharks and Boks. Our best player by a mile. But we need 5 more players like him
Jean Kleyn
Lock
26 August 1993 (age 29)
1
Munster
7
9
He was really solid for the boks, never let us down and rightfully included. The reason why Munster won.
Franco Mostert
Lock
27 November 1990 (age 32)
64
Mie Honda Heat
3
?
Oh, don’t get me started on him. His name didn’t pop up in Japan. Terrible as a 7, did better at lock, but give us no physical hard edge
Marvin Orie
Lock
15 February 1993 (age 30)
13
Stormers
4
4
Useless for the stormers, between him and Dwebe, they lost so many line outs, no steals to speak of, looks good when he touches the ball and pass, but doesn’t do the real work. Shouldn’t be there
RG Snyman
Lock
29 January 1995 (age 28)
26
Munster
6
8
Had some decent cameos, want to see him play a full match. Made some mistakes on defence and handling errors. Did well for Munster when he came on.
Jean-Luc du Preez
Loose forward
5 August 1995 (age 28)
13
Sale Sharks
6
8
Little time in the green and gold, but did well in his 20 min that he played in. Way more effective than Mostert
Pieter-Steph du Toit
Loose forward
20 August 1992 (age 30)
69
Toyota Verblitz
6
?
Been playing at 10, his team made the finals. Solid at the back, main creator for the boks, but shaky under the high ball, doesn’t have his pace anymore to get around players
Siya Kolisi (c)
Loose forward
16 June 1991 (age 32)
75
Sharks
0
9
Before his injury he was on fire, been out for several months and not right to drop him straying into test rugby, thinking he will win the world cup. Not an Eben
Evan Roos
Loose forward
21 January 2000 (age 23)
4
Stormers
6
6
He had some injuries that kept him out, did well against his first game against Connacht but the then struggled with more injuries and less impact. Was asked to play 7 and limited game time. Got over the white wash twice, not shy of contact
Kwagga Smith
Loose forward
11 June 1993 (age 30)
33
Shizuoka Blue Revs
4
?
A bit part players, doesn’t have a real position. Been playing 8 in Japan. Don’t think he had any impact for the boks. Only showed up in the last 10 min when the game was lost against the all blacks
Marco van Staden
Loose forward
25 August 1995 (age 27)
12
Bulls
7
5
Was really poor filling the shoes of Marcel Coetzee, struggled in a poor season for the bulls. Test against Australia was to drawer but average in his 2nd test against the bargies
2,348 posts
If an opponent performs well and we beat them comfortably, then it's a good marker. The performances need to be analysed for what they are and put in context. I very rarely see that from anyone.
2,922 posts
Well, I think the overall squad form is 5.6. Will get you pass the 6th rank team but not against the top 4 teams in the world. Which the boks can count themselves very lucky to be in that group. 38% loss record in 17 test. only 63%.
Only beaten on of the top 3 once in the last 2 years. Lost to France, Ireland and New Zealand.
Australia beat them twice, so it is not a good place to be in and so did Wales.
Rassie have had the the World Cup halo protecting him too long. He should have been dropped last year.
We need a coaching overhaul as well as the management
18,512 posts
14,566 posts
My word...haha shrink that table hahaha
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