Difference is old powder puff makes nice little process tackles because he has not grunt to put in a dominant tackle
PSDT on the other hand made very memorable dominant tackles, the kind of tackles you would expect from a Bok tightforward
Good old powder puff is the saddest excuse for a Bok tightforward
Perhaps he wouldn’t have missed 15% of his tackles if he hadn’t tried to be dominant. And I can guarantee you we lost more metres from Dud’s missed tackles than we made because he may and I say may, have been more dominant.
Dud Toit ran 25 times against Scotland Ireland, France and New Zealand without beating one defender. Talking about dominance, what about dominant running. Is that the most flaccid ball carrying any Bok designated ball carrier has ever racked up?
"In total Dud Toit played 381 minutes, made 66 tackles and missed 12.
Mostert played 305 minutes, made 67 tackles and missed 2"
Franco played less time, made more tackles and higher success rate.
Very impressive…..no wonder Rassie rates him so much:)
PSDT would have made a few less tackles than Mostert if at all but many of his would have been dominant - so much so it had an impact in the final sending a very clear message
PSDT is not there to beat tackles fuck me when are you ever going to wake up to the role of a blindside flanker or lock - they operate in traffic - they are not there to step defenders. Do you see Eben running into defenders and smashing them out the way - no you don’t - it hardly ever happens in test rugby these days
The role is to gain forward momentum in the carry which is what PSDT, Eben, Lood, RG and Wiese do - it’s what useless Mostert can’t do
Total Bias BS on Mostert not being able to get forward momentum….:)
More than enough Video Material was put on here to prove his forward momentum.
You just have to look at him play…..
Oh what utter shit - I have never seen Mostert being dominant in a carry because he does not have the bulk to enforce himself physically - 2m and 112kg is your answer
There has been zero video evidence on here of Mostert carrying well in contact
Never going to happen
I think it's safe to say that Mostert won the Boks the WC.
I'm sure we can all agree on that.
I really hope he's fit for the next WC too!
I thought it was the ref that won us the WC?
Nah, it was defos Mostert
"I think it's safe to say that Mostert won the Boks the WC.
I'm sure we can all agree on that.
I really hope he's fit for the next WC too!"
Ag nee man Plum!...naughty naughty...
Nah if it was not the ref in our pocket it was down to Manie
The whole team played there part, but some more than others:)
Just glad I could shine the light of truth on the hype about Dud Toit. He played a part, mostly in the final. But Pollard, Ox, Kolbe and particularly Etzebeth, without whom this whole party ends, were key through the whole knockout phase.
You shone no light at all Moz - PSDT was one of our best players throughout as he is with every match he plays
You are in a particularly dark hole Dave, it will take a searchlight of truth to convince you. Hell you are still harboring thoughts that Manie Libbok could be a Bok flyhalf.
Well there is a reason PSDT was named world player of the year post the WC
Manie is a Bok flyhalf
Yes….it’s a popularity contest.
Bullshit that’s your warped perspective
Why would a SA player be on a popularity list? Quite the opposite
They pretty much had to give it to a Bok…they prefer the quiet man Dud, to the combative man Etzebeth who is our one indispensable player and the best lock to play the game,
Ok so had they given it to Eben which I would have been more than happy with, PSDT was still one of 4 in the running for the award
You don’t win world player of the year twice being an average player that is an ineffective ball carrier
How the fuck you can rate Mostert and not PSDT is literally rugby madness
Most SA supporters would rank PSDT in their top 5 Boks ever
I would not but I do know he is a phenomenal player
No defenders beaten in 4 of our critical WC games in the role of our key ball carrier….an 85% tackle rate…no turnovers anybody can remember. The whole thing hinges on the big hit on Barrett who could easily have stepped him if he was alert.
I’m not persuaded.
Take Mostert out the team and re-evaluate our chances of winning the World cup ....
A fantastic team effort overall.... but the win diminishes significantly without Mostert.
Mostert has always been in the shadows. Remember that famous Bok win over NZ, 34-36, where Steph shot to fame over his tackle count? Mostert made the same number, while missing 3 fewer. Didn't even get a mention.
Mosert is a shit poor playe that shoud not eb in the Springbok team and that has ben proved since 2019. He fucked up royally in two tests in 2019 nd was dropped form the staring line-up in the remainder of the RWC tests and only replaced De Jage when eh got injured in the Final - where Mozrt first climed Beast won the inal for the Springboks and then switched to Moster being the palye who won tehs eries for he S pringboks.
Both ere BS statements and was proved a total B S anyway. H now came up with the same stroy again/ Fct is the substandad Mostert was neve picked as Player of ny test match either while Du Toit ws playe fo the Yedar on two occassions. Mostert neve did anything tht inluence match outcomes and that fact is being ignored by all the incomplete stats used by them sit diots.
I thought Mostert was great when he played fo he Lions in 2014 - bu as a test player he enve was of any real value on test level.
,
Q: What do you call someone who doesn't rate the great Pieter-Steph du Toit and cannot see the value that he brings to the Springboks?
A: A rugby noob.
Q: What do you call someone who is too vain and conceited to admit he ever made a mistake?
A: A pompous twat.
Q: What do you call a rugby noob who is also a pompous twat who lies awake at night trying to think of new ways to criticise the great Pieter-Steph du Toit so that he can pretend he didn't get egg all over his stupid face after PSdT won his second World Player of the Year award?
A: Moffie.
Dave doesn't rate Mostert because it would require a paradigm shift for him to show appreciation.
Mostert has been at the heart of both the best SA teams I have watched in the last ten years. He was heroic at the very dominant Lions.
Looking at how current SA teams are performing against European teams puts the almost perfect 3 seasons the Lions had in SR nicely into perspective. You know how hot that side was Dave, and you know Mostert was there doing it.
Onward to the 2019-2024 Boks, the other best SA side I've watched. And who do we find as Rassie's perpetual go-to...Sous. He's there again, and he's doing it again.
Dave, the problem here is your faulty interpretation of dominance.
In your view dominance is only asserted by running over people, and not by other metrics such as volume, etc.
But in the real world, the real numbers you see in front of you matter. When you add them all up you get = dominance total.
One last time. If you make less tackles you lose more ground, you give away some dominance.
I pointed this out to you previously, I even made charts for you.
...but you still didn't twig that dominance is not comprised of one metric only.
Um Moz wake up - you don’t beat defenders when you run into them - for crying out loud
His role is to carry in traffic - why is this beyond you?
Pakie and DA - the Bok side is a better one when Lood or RG are at 5
Mostert is a sad pretender incapable of imposing himself physically on attack or defensively
It’s not the job of a Bok lock to effect 12 process tackles a game. I’d much rather have a physical RG effecting 6 of those tackles and the remaining 6 by other players and in the process adding grunt to our forwards in every department
Fuck Mostert he is literally useless unless your measure of a Bok lock is making process tackles
Yes Dave, you've only told us about 1342 times.
Everything you say about Mostert, is in direct conflict with how Erasmus views and uses Mostert.
And Video and stats also don’t back your statements to be factual.
No amount of bad mouthing by you or Uncle Romulan will change the facts.
Catch 22 :)
"Everything you say about Mostert, is in direct conflict with how Erasmus views and uses Mostert."
Well, GiMp, everything Moffie says about PSdT is in direct conflict with the rest of the world . . . but I don't see you yapping away at your Master . . .
It's all really quite simple......
A neutral rugby body voted PSDT two time winner Rugby Player of the Year.....read my lips......it wasn't Mostert, he didn't even make the final list.
Not once....twice!
Are we missin somethin here?
Apart from his two World Player of the Year awards, PSdT has also been named Player of the RWC in 2019 and he's won the SA rugby Player of the Year.
What awards has Franco Mostert won?
I'm not for one second saying I don't rate Mostert as a player. I've always liked his warrior spirit . . . but to compare him to PSdT and to say he should get the credit for our last RWC victory is . . . well . . . something only a rugby noob might say.
Well, Moz is not my master and I view PSDT as a great player with his particular strengths.
Same counts for Mostert. Both of them do have there weaknesses to.
Therefore some of the things Moz is saying about Stef is true…I personally think that Lock is Stef,s best position.
But he does also have the attributes to play 7 well.
Me Moz, Pakie, DA and plum are way more openminded than you guys….. we have the abilities to see the good things about Pieter…..
But you guys are so bitter and bias, that you can’t even give Mostert a little bit of credit although he deserves much more….
I would say that is the big difference here…..
same counts for Rassie where things are seen more realistically….not like a bunch of Groupie Zombies that gulp everything up:)
Any case that’s my opinion:)
Mpower stop lying - show me video evidence of Mostert being dominant in a carry or making a dominant tackle
Lying carries zero weight
Agreed Rooi we can’t fault Mostert’s energy, durability and warrior instincts, it’s just a pity as a lock he has never had the physicality to back up all that heart and energy and for that simple reason I don’t rate him at all
I see through all the heart and energy, it’s the minimal physical productivity that defines him for me
For me a Bok lock has to be physical as a bare minimum
Nothing new in that behavior we've seen it play out many a time over the decades.....kinda like a puppy dog with bone clamped between jaws.
PSDT does and should still receive all the accolades that he has already received, and hopefully does still receive during his brilliant playing career.
I have always highly rated PSDT and I have supported him before, and that has never changed.
I think he is a bloody phenomenal player, and I believe that without him, our chances of winning that last world cup would have dropped dramatically.
At the same time, I do also genuinely believe that without Mostert's overall performance, all over the field, in every single game he played.....with his constant higher than most work ethic, his tireless in the trenches performance ... game after game, which the stats 100% back up.... I also believe that our chances to win that last world cup would diminish significantly without him in the side.
I cannot say that for many of the other players unfortunately... bar Eben, Pollard etc etc
That is all I am saying
Well Saffolk, I can go right now and find a video on YouTube to prove his dominant play.
But I do not know how to post videos on here from my I phone.
Besides that Blobbie has put many a Video on here of sous….
But to be honest and I am sure you can confirm this, that video won’t matter to you as you have made up your mind.
So no I am not a liar.
"Well Saffolk, I can go right now and find a video on YouTube to prove his dominant play.
But I do not know how to post videos on here from my I phone.
Besides that Blobbie has put many a Video on here of sous….
But to be honest and I am sure you can confirm this, that video won’t matter to you as you have made up your mind.
So no I am not a liar."
Well said Mpower
I have seen Blobs video and it showed zero physical dominance so yes you are a liar
There are some issues here that peple does not talk about. Mostert in 2019 was used a times whn players like De Jager was not available, In essense thee were two incidents that backline playes ran straigh through poo defense of Mostert - the first were in the RC match against A rgentna where the Agentine flyhalf ran stright threough a poor tackle attempt b y Mostert and a repeat happened in the WC first match in 2019 where the AB wing ran straight through a similar tackle attempt by Mostert. In both cases the flops ended in tries scored byhe opposig teams.
In the six minutes the English was attacking the tryline Mostert made two tackle attempts - the first one was tackled and went down forwad up to a meter of the English tryline and Mostert lost hold of the feet of the English player and Malherbe stopped hih fom going further. In the second case during the same match Marx was joined by Mostert and a powerful tackle was made by the two players - but it as always clear in that case the power in the tackle came fom Marx.
After the RWC match against AB's in 2019 the two incidents led to him being used as a bench player and he never started again as Springbok starting player in the criticl games of the SSpringboks in the rest of the 2019 RWC.
I want to go back to the famous Welligton test won by the Springboks in 2018, In that test Mostert missed 2 open field tackles on AB players. Together with the two 2019 tackles I referred to above it was clear that he was not a good enough open field tackler and in many cses where Mostert made tackles the players went forwad in tackles and easy recovery of the ball by oppossng teams were easy to make especially when other Springbks was involved in tackles credited by the stats to Mostert. In fact to describe him as a tackling monster is to my mind total delusion BS. As Mozart once describe being process tackles of players he disliked - the fact is that virtually all Mostert tackles were process tackles - nohing more,
In the famous 2023 RWC final Du Toit made 28 tackles and won the test for the Springboks. He was player of the match in the final and in 2024 he was rated as Player of the Year for the second time. Du Toit also was captain of the Springboks in tests - Mozstert was not in the mix of senior players ever. This type of comment on Du Toit Mozsrt came up with is ridiculous nonsnse, anyway.
,
So what this exercise shows is none of Dud Toit’s ‘greatness’ can be found in the stats. He hardly ever beats a defender, he hardly ever turns over a ball in the deck, his tackling rate, the final excepted is high but not exceptional. His tackling success rate is surprisingly low at 85%. He scored a try against Scotland but nothing else, no try assists.
. . . further proof that rugby noob and pompous twat is not a great combination . . .
Further proof that grunts can’t follow logic.
Moz what this clearly shows is that you really know very little about rugby or the role of players
Not sure how many more times you need to be told that bulky tall players like PSDT, Eben, RG etc operate in traffic, where defenders are not beaten - helloooooo
But the best is having a 2m, 120kg turning ball over on the deck
Fuck me how stupid
"Moz what this clearly shows is that you really know very little about rugby or the role of players"
Then Dud shouldn’t be the designated ball carrier…..what’s the point of a ball carrier that never gives you penetration and never offloads. Explain that to me, what is the purpose? Snyman offloads brilliantly and creates opportunities for the next player. Eben is not a regular ball carrier.
Eben carries the ball as much as PSDT does and nor does he beat defenders
Not every player in a side is required to attack space and beat defenders, certainly not tight forwards or your blindside
Their purpose is to attack contact and set up phases - something PSDT and Eben do very well
RG’s offloading is unique to him, no other lock in the game does the same
Do you honestly think PSDT should be attacking space and beating defenders? He is not physically equipped to do that
What part of players used to carry in traffic to set up phases are you not getting?
PSDT is a lock turned blindside and is mostly still used to operate as a lock with ball in hand although of late we see him operating out wider under the instruction of Brown, I’m guessing
There has definitely been a shift - the man is scoring tries these days
It’s testament to what a class act he is, that he has been able to shift from lock to blindside and now able to operate out wider after mostly operating in close quarters for much of his career
PSDT is built for lock but has been good enough to make the shift to 7 and turn out to be one of the best 7’s to ever play the game
Pretty bloody impressive and you don’t rate him
Do you know how stupid you look - you have zero support on this. But hey ho I’m not going to change your mind on him just like you will never mine when it comes to Mostert
Eben is a lock…..Dud a blindside flank, your typical hard yards ball carrier. Here are their WC carries:
NZ …..4 Eben/5 Dud
England 2 Eben/ 8 Dud
France 6 Eben/ 7 Dud
Ireland 4Eben/Dud 6
Scotland 2 Eben/ Dud 7
Eben 18/Dud 33.
In the RWC Dud carried almost twice as much as Eben. Because he is a programmed runner. He positions himself at first receiver off rucks. Eben carries when the flow of play puts him in position to run, or sometimes close to the line because of reach and weight.
You say Dud plays like a lock. Bingo.,,.he is a lock. But his involvement in lineouts is way less than locks. He’s not pushing behind the props.
So you say he isn’t supposed to be an effective ball carrier….so stop giving him the ball. He got the ball 33 times, Kolisi got the ball 10 times…and he never got the ball once against France, England or New Zealand. We never trusted Kolisi to carry once in the knockouts….he only carried 10 times in the whole WC.
The lack of a forward running game is a big part of our attacking mediocrity and Dud Toit sucks up far too much good ball.
So tell me Dave as a lock that is playing flank, but not expected to the duties of a flank or the duties of a lock, what does he do apart from tackle?
Huh, where did I say he was not an effective ball carrier - that’s your call. I’m saying he is a very effective ball carrier in traffic, he is our go to in that department
I should hope he would carry more than Eben as you pointed out Eben is involved in scrums and the inner engine room
PSDT is a great ball carrier in traffic, he has also of late show how effective he is out wide and he is a damn good defender, putting in many dominant tackles a game
The guy is phenomenal - he adds grunt to the scrums, mauls, rucks, he is a good line out option, a great ball carrier and great defender
He is not there to attack space or compete on the ground, for obvious reasons
And yet not one of those things you claim he does is verified in the numbers…not even his tackling, which actually surprised me. He works in Rasmus’ no risk style:
Well how do you account for much of what he does in numbers - grunt in scrums, mauls, rucks etc
His carries are in contact so are hardly going to read like Arendse’s do
As for his tackling - just ask Jordie
Dud is a great servant of the Rasmus’game plan.
BS - Mozart is a great serant of RUGBY IGNORANCE and prejudice.
Have a nice glass of warm milk and a Marie biscuit.
The role of a 7 flanker (openside flanker) in rugby is crucial, especially in the breakdown and defensive areas. Here’s a breakdown of their primary responsibilities:
Key Responsibilities of the Openside Flanker (No. 7): 1. Ball Retrieval at the Breakdown:
• The 7 is often the first player to the breakdown (the ruck) after a tackle. Their primary goal is to either secure possession for their team or contest the ball by attempting a turnover. This requires speed, agility, and strength.
2. Tackling and Defense: • Openside flankers are relentless tacklers. They often target the opposition’s ball carriers, particularly the fly-half and inside backs, to disrupt attacking plays.
3. Support Play:
• They provide crucial support to their team’s ball carriers, ensuring quick recycling of the ball to maintain attacking momentum.
4. Link Between Forwards and Backs: • The 7 is a dynamic player who bridges the gap between the forwards and backs. They often join the backline in attacking moves, making them versatile and contributing to open play.
5. High Work Rate: • The openside flanker covers a lot of ground during a game, making them one of the busiest players on the field. Their role demands excellent fitness and stamina.
6. Disrupting Opponents: • By targeting the opposition scrum-half or fly-half, they aim to slow down or disrupt the opposition’s game plan.
Traits of a Good No. 7:
• Speed and agility.
• High rugby IQ to read the game and anticipate plays.
• Strength and technique in the breakdown.
• Endurance to maintain performance across 80 minutes.
• Aggression and fearlessness in defense and contesting the ball.
Mozzie calls Du Toit "DUD" This dispite Du Toit being World player of the year TWICE.
I can't think of a bigger blunder in rugby Judgement than this other than Mozzie's absurd judgement regarding the Great Rassie Erasmus. Two unequalled monumental blunders that show that Mozzie is unable to evaluate matters fairly and logically.
Bye the way Du Toit has to make more tackles out wide than Mostert against tricky backline players.
Dave of course is also right to point out that Du Toit is a lot harder tackler than Mostert.
Of one thing you can be sure the highly peeved Mozzie will never admit he was wrong about Du Toit and Rassie. His noze is too severely out of joint.
What Dave is not getting is that it's the Mosterts of the world that set hyped players up for success.
Eben and PSDT + Mostert > Eben and PSDT + anybody else.
If you insist on starting RG, then I'm dropping Kolisi for Mostert.
My try of the WC.
Yip very good try….the mistake those Frenchies made is not taking Eben low…
There was a story about a Black kid shouting while watching the try and calling Eben Elizabethi:)
Crucial try by a great player.
When in doubt, run at the flyhalf.
44,402 posts
Most would probably pick Dud Toit….but it was that unsung hero Mostert, by a mile. Here are the stats from the games where we fielded our best team….Scotland, Ireland, France, England, NZ.
In total Dud Toit played 381 minutes, made 66 tackles and missed 12.
Mostert played 305 minutes, made 67 tackles and missed 2.
So Mostert actually made 1 more tackle than Dud despite playing effectively a game less in terms of minutes. But much more crucially Mostert had a 97% completion ratio. Dud Toit languished at a mediocre 85%.
But he’s a great runner they object. Dud Toit ran the ball 33 times and beat 2tackles. That’s a tackle beaten every 16 runs! Vermeulen ran the ball 8 times in the WC final and beat 2 tackles.
That’s an aside. The point of this string is not to humiliate Dud, but put Mostert’s WC in perspective…..our true WC defensive hero.