Dave
Who selected that team? On h wole I agree with the selecion bar perhaps Esteruizen whose cotribuion was little and Nel who scored 2 tries for the Stormers playing at 13. .
Dave
Who selected that team? On h wole I agree with the selecion bar perhaps Esteruizen whose cotribuion was little and Nel who scored 2 tries for the Stormers playing at 13. .
My team Mike and your anti Esterhuizen is just plain rugby ignorance
Scoring tries is not the measure of a performance unless it’s an individual bit of brilliance that lead to the tries which was not the case with Nel’s tries
I just enjoyed the good intelligent lines Moodie ran - better all round contribution than Nel, v Wyk and Am for me
Moodie's selection I accpet -bt fc is the hole coribtion of Esterhuizen amounted o near to zero.
By the way I expect that the SA squad to play in teUK in November will be available this week and think the squad may be announced this week and suspect the cneters ill be De Allende, Willemse, Am, Moodie and Kriel. Willemse will be selcted as a utility back that would cover more positions in he backline.
As Full Backs it would be Fassie and Willie - the latter being aimed at getting him to the 100 test caps Erasmus announced previously to see Willie reaching the 100 Springboks caps mark after which Willie would be moved to the coachig set up to develop him as future backline coach or dealing with the issues at present the responsibility of Brown - with Willie being aimed at replacing him when his contract expire after the 2027 WC..
After Willie's departure from the team i think Quin Horn of the Lions will probably be succeding Willie at Full Back in future squad. - while Willemse will be retained as Utility back.
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Better start swallowing your prescription prejudiced pills, as Esterhuisen is making you sick:)
Quan Horn is a good player, but it’s clear Rassie sees Fassi as the new incumbent.
And where did you read that Le Roux will take over from Brown as attack Coach??
Just an idea based on various utterances of Erasmus. Erasmus have already moved Vermeulen to the coaching panel and already used Kolisi in that regard during the visit to Argentina this year and aim to make that a permanent situation iro of both Kolisi and Pollard. When he mentioned that Willie should be allowed to earn a hundred caps - it was clear that Erasmus has further plans for using him in the coaching set-up.
I essense Erasmus is moving forward the proper coaching devlopment program in SA as a priority as well. I think that he saw Pollard to play until 2026 and then move him into the ccaching development program and I see the same would happen to Willie much sooner.
As to Quan Horne I do believe that he could become the back up full back wih Fassie being the first choice full back. I also believe that Shaca Feinberg-Mngomezulu will from next year be the first choice flyhalf and that the next step would be a finding by 2026 a back-up flyhalf for him. Have no idea who the back-up would be though, ,
I rate Esterhuizen and I don’t particularly rate Nel. But last weekend Andre had one of the least impressive games I have seen him play. Whereas Nel was clinical. Nel deserves the nod for the week.
Bullshit will Willie be attacks coach after Brown, Rassie has intimated nothing of a sort - he has zero qualification to do the job
Mike your anti Esterhuizen is a joke
He was by some distance the best SA 12 this past weekend
Far far better than Vorster, Dan du Plessis or Louw so stop speaking shit
At least Louw made the skip pass allowing erwe toscore that only try scored by the Lions. Esterhuien knocked on balls tice and made two really poor passes - and even three the hird one be substandard as well. . Esterhuizen did nothing to warrant anything realy posiive for the Shark. He made nothing that assist anybody in achieving anything during the match.. The fotdy knovk-on cme hen he ws trying to collect a ball bownsing before him and he second when he ws alone at a brekdiwn and knocked the ball om when trying to shieve it at the brekdown/. In bot cases a scrum followed each time.
The pass that Maruis made for Edwill,s try was a straight forward skip pass. Good but not spectacular.
The pass AE made for Jarenzo,s try, was much more under pressure and quick.
Besides that Esterhuisen is a strong beast in defence and gaining metres in traffic.
I am sure his Performances for the sharks has not gone unnoticed and Rassie will pick him for EOYT.
But I really hope that David Kriel will make the squad. He is really good and his Brother Richard, that play for the Lions, is also on form.
I agree Moz Ruhan Nel is playing absolutely magnificent Rugby as of late for the Stormers. Not that he was bad, but having a good spell at the Moment.
I think ou Maaik's continued slating of AE is the last stamp of approval Rassie requires to pick him.
I'd prefer Damian Willemse myself but AE would be a pretty good plan B.
Picking Esterhuizen is academic by now because the chances that he'll actually play more than a few token minutes is about zero. Something like 18 tests in what, 7 years? How unlucky for a player of that caliber. Close to a travesty. DDA will stick the 12 spot until retirement and by then AE will be too old. Might as well blood someone new because we don't really have any proven backup at 12 for when DDA and AE goes. Willemse is still mostly an idea as a test 12 rather than a solid proven, and none of the young guns have had test exposure.
Well you might have Rassie trying : 10. Libbok 11. Kolbe 12. Willemse 13. Moodie 14. Arendse 15. Fassi or 10. Pollard 11. Kolbe 12. AE 13. Henco V Wyk 14. Arendse 15. Fassi
Then hopefully if David Kriel gets the nod at 12, that can also be a option.
But I suspect that against ENG you will See DDA and Jessica, with Pollard at 10.
Unfortunately there is a huge difference between making an impression at test level vs club/provincial so saying AE is better than DA is short sighted as we are yet to see AE replicate his club level impact at test level
DA has been huge for Bok rugby
I’d like to see Willemse replace him when the time is right backed up by Ethan Hooker and David Kriel
At 30 it’s too late for Esterhuizen
David Kriel and Hooker ( Let’s also not forget Jonathan Roche and Bruce Sherwood) is in my opinion better equipped than Willemse to succeed at inside centre.
Then it’s very easy saying that DDA is better at Bok level when he has clearly been picked more, because of the famous Rassie Favouritism.
The little chances that AE got at test level is not a fair evaluation of his capabilities.
Let’s also not forget that DDA has been accommodated by Rassie,s " Gamplan" to look far better than he actually is. His main role is to tractor and that is not special at all..
Also DDA is solely responsible for the stagnation of our Backline play for the last 3 to 4 years.
He is a ball killer. Only now with Brown on board and variation in our Game plan, do we see him off load a bit for his fellow players. AE is by far the more gifted player.
Bullshit Willemse is by far the best equipped to take over at 12 because he is such a gifted player.
We don’t need him at 15 as we have the very impressive Fassi there and he is not a 10’s backside with all those charge downs, plus we have Sacha and Libbok at 10
Moving forward post our 30 year old incumbents, Willemse’s most obvious spot is 12
In theory maybe, but not proven. If he is such a massive potential at 12, why does Rassie not back that, by playing him there?
Because he has de Allende and Esterhuizen as his 12’s and therefore used Willemse at 15
But while Willemse was injured, Fassi took the opportunity to make a good impression at 15, so potentially Rassie should be rethinking where he should play Willemse
In order to get the best younger players on the field at the same time the most obvious call is Willemse at 12, Fassi at 15, Sacha at 10, Moodie at 13 or wing and Jurenzo at 13, Arendse on the wing
Just anorher question - is there anything in Esterhuizen that would at the age of 30 make him an improved performer. e never was a class player performer and never realy stake a claim fo higher honours. So it is not a travesty that he did not play in more tests, His only real chance was to be selecion in the RWC squad for 2019 and he did not make the squad - even when Jesse Kriel was to be replaced Erasmus prefered the younger and less experienced Willemse to be called up.
Esterhuizen was in the alst year fringe player and ahs een that since 2018, He is not going to improve performances at that age and buggered up badly when Ersmus gavehim chance to start in the test against Portugal. That caused him being eft ouof teh Arentina squad and on te same day played for the Sharks - after Erasmus claimed that he had an injury and then ignored him in the team for the Nelspruit test.
In 2021 Esterhuizen played in the Wales test at home - in whcih he played for 80 minutes lost by the Springboks and in the RC match against Argenina he played for 5 minutes, In November 2022 he also played for 80 minites in the away game against Italy. He also play in the first RC match gainst Australia playing for 80 minutes in he RWC in 2023 he played against Tong an Romania or 160 minutes. In 2024 he played against Wales (57 minutes) and Portugal (2 minutes), In aperiod from 2021 to date SA played 36 tests in that period and Estrhuizen played in 9 of them his game time was 465 minutes. in all 18 tests - often against weaker teams - he never scored a single try and was never credited with assistiing in scoring any tries. Bearing in mind that he played in circa 25% of the tests SA played in the period 2021 to 2024 - he enver made any claim to playing mire ften in tests than he acually did,
I think that Estehuizen chance in being part of the November squad will be less than 10% . I think that much younger and more talented players like Kriel or Louw would be more likely get some test time against weaker teams over the next two years - with Willemse bein really the easonale rpacement if De Allende is innjured or retire from Rugby. - he is by ar the top claimant of thr no 12 Jersey
Willemse at #12 is a no brainer.
Williams, SFM, Arendse, Willemse, Moodie/Kriel/Am, Kolbe, Fassi.
Now there's a backline!
Agreed Rooi but we need a young 13 so it’s Moodie or Jurenzo Julius
Moodie has already proved himself as a test standard player and I have very high hopes for Julius - he looks special and the real deal
Unfortunately there is a huge difference between making an impression at test level vs club/provincial so saying AE is better than DA is short sighted as we are yet to see AE replicate his club level impact at test level
Well AE has never had a prolonged run. He's gotten the odd token one off test. DDA is at over 80 tests, AE at 18 or thereabouts during the same playing period. Who will people be more likely to remember as being good - the guy who they see 10 times a year or the guy they see once or twice a year? AE had two excellent tests last year against Aus and NZ, but then DDA comes back and AE is back to the basement again. No player can stake a claim like that.
Willemse has not been ear marked by Erasmus for the 12 spot. If Rassie will play him there has to be seen. So it’s definitely not a no brainer.
How do we know if Rassie doesn’t rate Willemse to be a better 15 than Fassi?? Fassi after all, is also very comfortable at wing
With the likes of Kriel, Hooker knocking hard at the door, nothing is for certain yet. How do we know that Tassels is not planning on dragging Dud and Jessica to WC 27??
The same counts for Moodie at 13 where you have a Henco van wyk that is a ten times better defender. Is Willemse a good enough defender to cover the 12 channel? Why does dobbo only play Willemse at 12 when there is no one else available, due to injury?
Agreed 100% Pakie - if Esterhuizen had been given an extended run as a Bok there is no doubt he would have made more of an impression than he has
Who knows why Rassie backed DA over Esterhuizen at the start but it’s worked and Esterhuizen will always be a case of what if
I think Rassie could have done a better job of rotating DA and AE much like Jessie and Am
It’s hard for any player to make an impression at test level when they only live off tit bits - Thomas du Toit, Roos, Esterhuizen, Williams, Elton Jantjies, Dweba, Moerat etc
Hard for an offloading center, to make an impression when the coach prefers crash ball. Perhaps things are changing now, but what the Hozen does best was never valued by Rasmus..
Isn’t that the real issue?
Perhaps. Guess it's a case of the wrong man at the wrong time. Imagine if AE was 25ish now with DDA on his way out. We would have had an excellent 12 ready and prepped to step into his shoes. Instead they shared the same playing period and there's only room for one.
If we have the right to imagine…I’d rather imagine that Esterhozen had been our 12 for all those years.
Well Moz we know DA is more than capable of offloading as we have witnessed in the past few tests but prior to that he was not encouraged to offload as the idea was to take contact setting up phases drawing defenders in - the offload encourages a more momentum focused approach which of course also opens up the offload recipient being isolated and turned over.
It’s 50/50 these days - play it structured and tight or offload and invite the turnover
Yes Pakie unfortunately some players as good as the incumbents end up losing out as they are born at the wrong time
Bismark for years behind Smit, Adriaan Strauss behind Bismark, Wynand Olivier behind Jean etc
Esterhuizen behind de Allende is probably the hardest pill to swallow
And Saffolk of course……born at the wrong time.
True Becs playing rugby for a living must be so cool
Yeah. It’s hard going though.
Beats the crap out of 9 to 5 in an office
I agree with that.
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