Why has Ireland dominated the Boks since 2019

Four games played….one neutral, one in Ireland, 2 in South Africa, Results Ireland lead 3 games to 1….on the face of it clear Irish dominance of the genius. Why? Off to golf but perhaps some non noob out there has a good analysis. .

Well fact is we dominated them in Ireland and they were handed a try despite a forward pass by the sub prop and not to mention their player kicking the ball through the ruck. No try on two counts

We lost in the WC thanks to piss poor goal kicking by your favourite Libbok - shit happens

We lost the last one in SA thanks to useless v Staaden conceding possession near their line. We turned that game around big time only for v dumb muscle Staaden to fuck it up.

Dominating us my arse - they won’t beat us again in a hurry - they are declining we keep getting better

The last time we bested Ireland was in 2016 under Alistair Coetzee, they seem to have the genius’ number.

Bullshit

Rassie Erasmus said it was hard to beat Ireland because they are a very technical and quality team that puts a lot of pressure on their opponents. He noted that Ireland's defense and lineout maul are particularly challenging, with players like James Ryan having unique ways to stop mauls, making mauling an ineffective strategy against them.

He also mentioned that Ireland's attacking game is very strong, and that the Irish team is well-coordinated from playing together in the Six Nations, which contrasts with the Springboks who had not been together as long. Erasmus acknowledged that despite South Africa's dominance in parts of the game, Ireland's resilience and technical skill made it a tough match, and the Springboks needed to improve their attacking options and cohesion to overcome them fully127.

Additionally, there is a noted rivalry and tension between South Africa and Ireland, fueled in part by media and historical results, which adds to the intensity and difficulty of beating Ireland. Rassie Erasmus himself has expressed strong competitive feelings towards the Irish, which reflects the high stakes and emotional challenge of these encounters3.

Ireland won’t be beating the Boks in a hurray again judging by their 6N performances

Ireland plays Rassie ball intelligently….it baffles the genius.

Rassie is not Joke White - nothing baffles the rugby genius

1 in 4…two at home….baffled.

"The last time we bested Ireland was in 2016 under Alistair Coetzee, they seem to have the genius’ number."

No, in 2016 we lost at Newlands, playing against 14 when Stampkar was given a red card in the 1st 20min I think...1st lost against them in South Africa.

We won the series in 2016:

1. 19-13 Ireland
2. 32-26 Ireland
3. 20-26 Ireland

We will get a chance this year to beat them at home. The problem is, they had Rassie at Munster and so they know how the boks think.

They know how to nullify the boks physicality and their pack is pretty decent. The difference is that they are light years ahead when it comes to back play. Their ruck speed is next level and super fast compared to South Africa.

The only downside is that their team is aging but looking at how they dismantled the Bulls with a pretty much full Irish team means we may have our work cut out for us.

The problem with Rassie and Ireland is that is very tactical and it all depends on the bench and how and when he brings players on.

Ireland don't off load their bench so quickly and the boks come unstuck when the front liners can't keep pace in the first 30 min as Ireland is great at moving the ball the around.

Fuck me back in 2016 Ireland were half the side they are these days

But they are done - ending 3rd in the 6N evidences a slip

Without Sexton pulling the strings at 10 they look less formidable

Both Crowley and Pretendergast will be better than they were in the 6N....

They were half the side that they are today….but by the end of 2016 they beat the All Blacks in Chicago by 40 points to 29. And they beat the Springboks at home.

The noob bombasting away in ignorance again.

Ah yeah this from the fucking noob that is unaware that one prop is able to engage before the other

One certainty is that the Irish side in 2016 was not as the one that sat a world number 1 not that long ago

Mozart lives in Cloud Cuckoo land and not in the real world, My only obervation about the above is - "Shpw me the WC's that Ireland won in the final",

Ireland have been a bloody good side of late - time will tell if they can raise their game to the same heights after a disappointing 6N

They have been the best Irish side ever

Can’t do that Clever….can you show me the games the Boks beat Ireland away or on a neutral site since 2019? Which after all is what the string is about,

Ireland have been living proof of what happens when the players and coaches are intelligent enough to realise that backs are not simply there to catch high balls and kick them back.

The moment the rev counter hits the required level they switch and run the backs. They clear rucks quickly and build the rev counter up again quickly.

Their backs have slick hands and their game plan gets the most out of their players.

They play high IQ rugby with lesser players while some teams play low IQ rugby with better players.

Balancing your strategy between backs and forwards is by far the best way to play rugby. It doesn't matter how the rugby laws change, balance is a universal law and will remain unaffected.

You need to live in the real world. Sports teams lose in some cases - but in the end the better teams win in wold-wide competitions where it really counts. Where tems win in individual matches and then in the end lose in worldwide competitions the statement on "domintion" means BS, Since 1995 wen professional rugby was introduced the AB;s were the best team in World Rugby and rarely lose against opposing teams - thry eon only WC trophies in 2 cases - ie in 2011 and 2015 and that in the end is wat really counts.

Since 2004 the All Blacks and Springboks played in 40 tests - of those the AB's won in 29 matches - the Springboks won in 11 and 1 was a drawn match, The point differences in tests were always losses by more than 7 points and in cases often by record scores by the AB's. In the end the losses of or nstance 4 matches played were mostly marginal and in one of the 4 tests played by 1 point. The word dominates used by you is arcical and that is the long and short of the discussion. . .

‘They play high IQ rugby with lesser players while some teams play low IQ rugby with better players.’

….exactly. It’s instructive because Ireland’s game is probably the best match to our own. The ABs, France and Oz play much more to their backs. But even though the games are similar, the Irish execution is more intelligent and interpretive of what’s actually happening

Under the current coaching we are a process team…box kick, defend, scrum, extract penalties and maul to score tries. The little bit of innovation comes with turnover ball which can’t be scripted.

So in spite of having better players in about 10 positions, Ireland have dominated Erasmus ball.

Got to laugh at this utter shit about us being a process side - it’s fucking insulting

you don’t have to laugh Dave..cry if you like… so much talent, so few moments of joy

Not enough joy for you being the best side [search: dogging near me] in the game?

And you call yourself a Bok supporter?

Dave, you really need to understand the difference between constructive criticism and the other types.

It's never a bad idea to compare potential to outcome.

There will always be a disparity, but the aim is to bring potential and outcome as close to each other as possible.

Don't be the mental noob that mistakes those types of discussions for disloyalty.

Right now, we have some of craziest backs in world rugby. Literally, I cannot think of a better 15 than Fassi, a better 10 than Sasja, a better 13 than Hooker...better wingers than Arendse and Kolbe. And very few teams would turn AE away.

We basically have a backline of superstars. Literally no joke, balls to the wall, monsters! And then we have other guys that are not far off of those, like Edwil, Kriel, Horn, and others that you yourself have listed.

You, can't look at the players we have and not see virtually unlimited potential.

The argument is very simple.

Swys and Ackers took a group of unknowns and had them dominating the best NZ franchises around for 3 years - including teams with 7 or 8 ABs in them. Why could they do that? What was the formulae? Now you look at the personnel the Boks have and you see that teams like Scotland and Argentina give us a run for our money with only a fraction of the personnel that we have. Not a single Scot would make the Bok side and there is perhaps only one or two Bargies that would.

I can't draw any other conclusion outside of the fact that our coaches are predominantly not intelligent enough to decrease the delta between potential and performance.

If ever we manage to find coaches that can...that's when we'll create real separation between us and everybody else.

Win narrowly at all costs vs play to our potential and dominate with complete rugby. If choosing the latter is disloyal I’m disloyal.

Potential is worth nothing if not realized...personally I prefer 2 RWCs in the bag...after the horror years of Meyer and Coetzee...what a relief.

Draad...nobody is unhappy that we won the WC.

Are you able to separate the argument in your mind?

Do you agree that the ABs are worse now than they have been in ages?

If so, and you are happy with where we currently are, then it it also means you're happy for us to play second fiddle to them as soon ad they start playing slightly better than they are now. Because the reality is that despite our WC wins, we're only ever so slightly better than them right now.

I'm personally not happy to only be better than them when they're in a slump. I'd much rather we play to our actual potential and dominate them even when they're beating everybody else.

...which has zero to do with our recent WC wins.

You simply can't underline every single discussion about the Bok direction with "But we won the WC".

Else we may as well just never discuss most things rugby related. Why talk about the URC, the Boks, or even rugby in other countries when all roads lead to "The Boks won the WC"?

Here’s a good test of progress in 2015 we lost to the ABs in the WC by 2 , in 2023 we beat them by 1 point despite being a man up for half the game. These are the two AB starting teams:

2015…………..2023

Ben Smith…..…….Beauden Barrett

M-Skudder………..Jordan

Conrad Smith…….Ioane

Nonu……………. .J Barrett

Savea……………..Tele’a

Carter……………..Mo’unga

A Smith……………A Smith

Moody……………..de Groot

Coles ………………Taylor

O Franks……………Lomax

Retallick…………….Retallick

Whitelock……….….S Barrett

Kaino……….………Frizell

McCaw……………...Cane

Reid…………………Savea

The first thing that strikes one is the 10 point statistical penalty being a man down for 40 minutes swamps the 3 point differential for the 23 team over the 2015 result.

In terms of players the 2015 team had better players in B Smith (the MOM in the semi), Conrad Smith, Nonu, Carter, Retallick (the 2015 version), Whitelock, Kaino and McCaw.

I’d give the nod to Jordan, Lomax, de Groot and Savea in the 2023 team. The rest a toss up, although I suspect the 2015 Aaron Smith was better.

That all amounts to a team which had 3 best players vs 8….losing to the Boks by 1 point despite being a man down. And the full strength team with 8 better players beating the Boks by 2 points.

That was the horror of HM

Mozrt

You live in a dream world that do not take note of reality, The Springboks in 2015 was a poor team woth an idiot coach as well. The fact is some AN [;ayers ere over the hill age-wise and theelft vers still left in 2023 was over the hill as well,

All your arguments are meaningless and you lost our eprspective totally. The 2015 Sprogboks in fact had a hace to win the amtch until Matfioeld came up replacing De Jager, Matoeld cost the Spring b oks 3 points by losin g his frst line out and then caise a penalty tunover in an easy conversion area by neck-wrestling a All Black player in a maul.

But that shit in the end means nothing - the Springboks lost the match in 2015 and won the final in 2023 - that is the historical fact and nothing will change it, Anybody can dream on about what happened and whuich team was the strongest in 2015 and which in 2023.

It also ivolve who wa coaching the teams - Hansen was a top coach - Meyer was the dregs in coaching. Erasmus is a top class cach in 2023 with Robertson not being a top class coach.