Let's try to define this to prevent i gnorant and time-wasting arguments from either side. Does anyone here object strongly to the classifications below?
Club Pro409 posts
26 Jul 2018, 14:11
#1
26 Jul 2018, 14:11#1
Left wing vs Right wing
Started by Koos Kombuis28 REPLIES970 VIEWS· 26 Jul 2018, 14:11
Club Pro409 posts
26 Jul 2018, 14:12
#2
26 Jul 2018, 14:12#2
If you'd like to open that graphic where the ads don't get in the way then click here.
Captain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2018, 14:24
#3
26 Jul 2018, 14:24#3
It's Been Real.....except of course the identity. Morality from Merthyr Tydfil, Mr Parry at his very best....hahaha!
Club Pro409 posts
26 Jul 2018, 14:29
#4
26 Jul 2018, 14:29#4
Oh dear, I'd better rephrase that:
Does anyone with an education and with an emotional maturity level greater than a 5 year old object to the distinctions in that graphic?
Does anyone with an education and with an emotional maturity level greater than a 5 year old object to the distinctions in that graphic?
Captain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2018, 14:41
#5
26 Jul 2018, 14:41#5
Well tell us about your post graduate degree Koos. LMAOFY!
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 20:02
#6
26 Jul 2018, 20:02#6
No, there are a few subjective concepts in there. Fairness? WTF?
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 20:04
#7
26 Jul 2018, 20:04#7
That graph has been drafted by a lefty.
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 20:05
#8
26 Jul 2018, 20:05#8
Marxism has great ideals, but tends to fail horribly in the execution.
Club Pro409 posts
26 Jul 2018, 20:07
#9
26 Jul 2018, 20:07#9
Care to expand on which ones you disagree with, Draad?
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 21:48
#10
26 Jul 2018, 21:48#10
Well the fact that the left has fairness in their half. So socialism is fair?
There are a few others, but please explain the fair to me first.
Club Pro409 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:06
#11
26 Jul 2018, 22:06#11
I suspected it might be something ignorant and defensive and so it is.
Listen Draad, it's not saying that the lefties are fair and the rednecks are unfair, it's simply saying that left wingers are more likely to vote for concepts like fairness, equality and all those PC things you claim to hate while right-wingers are more inclined to prioritise law and order and survival of the fittest which is what the graphic is saying.
Now, if you aren't aware that the left is geared more towards society as opposed to the individual, more towards equality as opposed to capitalism and more towards inclusivity as opposed to exclusivity then I have to ask myself what the heck you are even doing on this thread or dicussing things like right wing vs left wing or liberalism vs conservatism.
Seriously.
This is like basic politics 101 and you are floundering already.
You may be too ignorant to realise it but those classifications and distinctions are accurate, unbiased and pretty much universally recognised.
Go on then, what's the next one that makes you uncomfortable? I seriously think that if any of those upset you then you may actually be a lot closer to the left than you think.
Listen Draad, it's not saying that the lefties are fair and the rednecks are unfair, it's simply saying that left wingers are more likely to vote for concepts like fairness, equality and all those PC things you claim to hate while right-wingers are more inclined to prioritise law and order and survival of the fittest which is what the graphic is saying.
Now, if you aren't aware that the left is geared more towards society as opposed to the individual, more towards equality as opposed to capitalism and more towards inclusivity as opposed to exclusivity then I have to ask myself what the heck you are even doing on this thread or dicussing things like right wing vs left wing or liberalism vs conservatism.
Seriously.
This is like basic politics 101 and you are floundering already.
You may be too ignorant to realise it but those classifications and distinctions are accurate, unbiased and pretty much universally recognised.
Go on then, what's the next one that makes you uncomfortable? I seriously think that if any of those upset you then you may actually be a lot closer to the left than you think.
Captain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:18
#12
26 Jul 2018, 22:18#12
Actually Venezuela is floundering.
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:21
#13
26 Jul 2018, 22:21#13
Ya rooi, the fairness works well in South Africa. The ANC is fairer than the Cape of Good Hope.
Captain49,914 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:22
#14
26 Jul 2018, 22:22#14
But it's cute the way Urinal is trying to return as Koos.....as if all the 'principled' reasons that led to his departure don't affect Koos. How long will it before he returns to rugby and instructs us on how great Puke really was....hahaha.
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:23
#15
26 Jul 2018, 22:23#15
Rooi, I am not closer to the left than I think, I am a libertarian, but I'm not left. The left has lost their marbles...and I'm kinda sane...barely.
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:26
#16
26 Jul 2018, 22:26#16
Criminals are victems?
More like no accountability.
Captain26,388 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:35
#17
26 Jul 2018, 22:35#17
Community based on ethics. How do you measure ethics? I say the so called right has more ethics.
Captain40,032 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:39
#18
26 Jul 2018, 22:39#18
The radical left communist, globalist left have lost their sanity.
Latest Poll Finds Today’s Democrat Party Scares the Hell Out of Voters
Go to Gateway Pundit to read the article.
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
26 Jul 2018, 22:54
#19
26 Jul 2018, 22:54#19
I am not convinced about the chart, as I believe in certain things on both sides- even though I am probably "more" left wing. Or closer to the middle- at least as I get older.
For example, I believe in Capitalism because I do not believe that people are equal. Some people can use the money better than others to produce more capital- which is in the interests of everyone. If money is just shared out - it will all be spent with no profit- just consumed.
Communism is a tricky one. At first glance, it is left wing, but in practice, it is right wing. Communism is a king that rules as one person. It is not a party - just one person making all the decisions.
Some criminals choose to be criminals, while others are victims of society. I don't support war, other than self-defence.
For example, I believe in Capitalism because I do not believe that people are equal. Some people can use the money better than others to produce more capital- which is in the interests of everyone. If money is just shared out - it will all be spent with no profit- just consumed.
Communism is a tricky one. At first glance, it is left wing, but in practice, it is right wing. Communism is a king that rules as one person. It is not a party - just one person making all the decisions.
Some criminals choose to be criminals, while others are victims of society. I don't support war, other than self-defence.
Club Pro409 posts
27 Jul 2018, 07:37
#20
27 Jul 2018, 07:37#20
Draad, there's no really nice way to say this but you're displaying your ignorance here. You're just seeing words that you think apply to you and then getting all defensive because they're on the wrong side of the scale.
The graphic is not saying the right is unethical, it's drawing a distinction between ethics and morals. Ethics are an external set of values drawn up by society. Morals are internal values held by the individual.
A person on the left is more likely to conform to ethics while a person on the right is more likely to behave according to his morals.
I'm getting the distinct impression that a lot of this is new to you. Makes me wonder at how often you slam the left for everything you hate when you don't even know what the left stands for.
I would suggest in future instead of complaining endlessly about the left (as you do), you rather describe them as the people you don't like because you have a very limited knowledge of who the left are.
Earlier on you were almost in tears because the left has "fairness" as a priority ahead of "upholding order" which is more likely to be a priority of the right. Well, all that political correctness you hate so much is really just the left's obsession with treating different people of different groups, income levels and life choices in a fair manner as opposed to the right which is more concerned with the freedom of an individual to have the opportunities to excel and rise above others in what lefties might call an unfair manner.
Sharkbok, I don't think too many people will dispute that communism in practice and theory are two different things but if you do think that communism in theory is right wing rather than left wing then enrol with Draad in Politics 101.
The graphic is not saying the right is unethical, it's drawing a distinction between ethics and morals. Ethics are an external set of values drawn up by society. Morals are internal values held by the individual.
A person on the left is more likely to conform to ethics while a person on the right is more likely to behave according to his morals.
I'm getting the distinct impression that a lot of this is new to you. Makes me wonder at how often you slam the left for everything you hate when you don't even know what the left stands for.
I would suggest in future instead of complaining endlessly about the left (as you do), you rather describe them as the people you don't like because you have a very limited knowledge of who the left are.
Earlier on you were almost in tears because the left has "fairness" as a priority ahead of "upholding order" which is more likely to be a priority of the right. Well, all that political correctness you hate so much is really just the left's obsession with treating different people of different groups, income levels and life choices in a fair manner as opposed to the right which is more concerned with the freedom of an individual to have the opportunities to excel and rise above others in what lefties might call an unfair manner.
Sharkbok, I don't think too many people will dispute that communism in practice and theory are two different things but if you do think that communism in theory is right wing rather than left wing then enrol with Draad in Politics 101.
Pro3,977 posts
27 Jul 2018, 09:01
#21
27 Jul 2018, 09:01#21
Graph makes perfect sense to me. Although, like Sharkbok, I can identify with some aspects of either side. I guess that makes me a moderate. My momma always told me, thanks Forrest Gump, that the secret to life is balance. Be it diet, or exercise, or investing or relationships or anything else really. This extreme left vs extreme right thing is just a pendulum, that will never stay too far in one direction, before swinging back. As society advances and becomes more civilised, logic would dictate that it will eventually settle somewhere in the middle. Or to use a more practical example with the world as it currently is, those countries that are either too far right or too far left tend to be the failed "shithole countries", those that are most advanced tend to be somewhere near the middle.
As far as my opinion on humanity, we re still basically selfish savages that humans in a couple of hundred years time will slowly shake their heads at. We are nowhere near the civilization we arrogantly believe ourselves to be.
Club Pro409 posts
27 Jul 2018, 10:56
#22
27 Jul 2018, 10:56#22
bluebok, like you, I am neither one or the other and my political beliefs have elements of both left and right wing.
When it comes to how I raised my children, religious beliefs and pacifism vs militancy then I'm left wing.
However I'm right wing on issues like law and order, individualism and trusting my own conscience rather than ethics as prescribed by society.
I honestly thought the distinctions and classifications in that graphic would be accepted by both right and left leaning posters but clearly some of them either don't understand these distinctions or else don't like which side of the spectrum they end up in.
When it comes to how I raised my children, religious beliefs and pacifism vs militancy then I'm left wing.
However I'm right wing on issues like law and order, individualism and trusting my own conscience rather than ethics as prescribed by society.
I honestly thought the distinctions and classifications in that graphic would be accepted by both right and left leaning posters but clearly some of them either don't understand these distinctions or else don't like which side of the spectrum they end up in.
sharkbok
Captain23,224 posts
Captain23,224 posts
27 Jul 2018, 11:05
#23
27 Jul 2018, 11:05#23
@Koos/Rooineck,
Would you agree that having a King instead of a democratically elected ruler is right wing?
For all the ideals of communism, the end result is having a dictator/King which I believe to be right wing. It is going backwards thousands of years, so the while the ideals are left wing- the practice becomes an increasingly right wing.
Initially a communist party consists of lots of people, eventually, it is one individual. Think Stalin and Trotsky (who was later killed by Stalin's lackey's). This is certainly not left-wing ideals in practice.
I would say that Socialism is a more left wing, as it waters down capitalism. (e.g. minimum wage regulations, etc etc).
Would you agree that having a King instead of a democratically elected ruler is right wing?
For all the ideals of communism, the end result is having a dictator/King which I believe to be right wing. It is going backwards thousands of years, so the while the ideals are left wing- the practice becomes an increasingly right wing.
Initially a communist party consists of lots of people, eventually, it is one individual. Think Stalin and Trotsky (who was later killed by Stalin's lackey's). This is certainly not left-wing ideals in practice.
I would say that Socialism is a more left wing, as it waters down capitalism. (e.g. minimum wage regulations, etc etc).
Club Pro409 posts
27 Jul 2018, 11:14
#24
27 Jul 2018, 11:14#24
Yes, a monarchy is definitely right wing.
The communist ideal is to have as little centralized power as possible although I won't dispute that in practice it never works out that way.
Back in the 60s and 70s, the word "communist" was given such a negative connotation by the USA and other western powers that it remains a stigma. For that reason socialism is probably a safer word to use and the concept of socialism is without question left wing.
The communist ideal is to have as little centralized power as possible although I won't dispute that in practice it never works out that way.
Back in the 60s and 70s, the word "communist" was given such a negative connotation by the USA and other western powers that it remains a stigma. For that reason socialism is probably a safer word to use and the concept of socialism is without question left wing.
Pro3,977 posts
27 Jul 2018, 11:20
#25
27 Jul 2018, 11:20#25
SB, you are right, the extreme left and the extreme right do eventually land up being the same thing. Extreme
Club Pro409 posts
27 Jul 2018, 11:46
#26
27 Jul 2018, 11:46#26
Not sure I agree with you guys. Right wing extremism results in tyranny. Left wing extremism results in anarchy. Definitely not the same thing.
Captain49,914 posts
27 Jul 2018, 14:16
#27
27 Jul 2018, 14:16#27
So Stalin wasn't a tyrant.....got it!
Captain26,388 posts
27 Jul 2018, 16:28
#28
27 Jul 2018, 16:28#28
"Draad, there's no really nice way to say this but you're displaying your ignorance here. You're just seeing words that you think apply to you and then getting all defensive because they're on the wrong side of the scale.
The graphic is not saying the right is unethical, it's drawing a distinction between ethics and morals. Ethics are an external set of values drawn up by society. Morals are internal values held by the individual."
Correct. I did just that. In honesty, I viewed the thing on the phone, so I literally scanned it. I was deliberately poking holes at the thing and I am too lazy to go and go through it systematically/ I don't really have the time at the moment to do it properly. I am prepared to take that as a base to start a discussion from.
Club Pro409 posts
27 Jul 2018, 21:33
#29
27 Jul 2018, 21:33#29
What a refreshing injection of honesty.
I searched your comment for sarcasm Draad and found none. Good for you. Respect!
I searched your comment for sarcasm Draad and found none. Good for you. Respect!
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