Should Russia be split into a few countries?

It is something we (NATO) are seriously considering. That is if we get pulled into the war because of Putin using nuclear bombs. 

I saw a retired US army leader say that if Russia uses nuclear weapons, it is almost certain the US and perhaps NATO would be drawn into the war inside Ukraine. 

If Putin goes nuclear, the former US army leader said that the US will immediately wipe out Russia's army in Ukraine.
If that escalates into the war on Russian soil and assuming the West won, it would be time to end Russia as a sovereign nation.
Russia could be split up, and Ukraine could perhaps get some of Russia.

Putin is the latest Dr Evil threatening the world with nuclear bombs. If Russia cant be trusted t elect Democratic leaders that can be voted out, then we need to take control of the operation. 

Why should a new system be introduced to split Russia up into enforced slavery by other countries?    Is it not a new form of colonialism?    Any idea like that would inevitably lead to nuclear war and who will be worse off after such a war?    Likely the USA where cities will be destroyed first and what is left of the US Allies will be worse.     

You wrote elsewhere   that the Russians blew up the North Sea pipeline - how was that done with US helicopters flying from Gdansk in Poland hovering above the explosion at the time it happened,  

In the meantime the Chinese will watch the destruction with glee  and will take over what remains of Europe and the USA with ease.       

Just ask yourself a question - why are countries and governments whose economies are in a tailspin always become warmongers?    The USA is famous for that it happened repeatedly in history over the last 100 years,.

The fact is that Russia is a massively huge country covering a 6th of land on the planet and attempts to do what you speak about has always in the end failed badly so why advocate something to ghastly to even think about.                 

And a massively small economy….smaller than Italy.

I was pleasantly surprised to see how low Russia is ............ pipped by the mighty SKorea & Canada

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=world+economic+table+of+top+nati ons

For all it’s warts the capitalist system produces wealth, while communism produces suppression, horrible architecture and military aggression

And yet there are those on this Board who somehow have convinced themselves that Russia is the victim…amazing 

Following several years of unsuccessful petitioning through the United Nations and the International Court of Justice for Namibian independence from South Africa, SWAPO formed the PLAN in 1962 with material assistance from the Soviet Union, China, and sympathetic African states such as Tanzania, Ghana, and Algeria.[31] Fighting broke out between PLAN and the South African authorities in August 1966. Between 1975 and 1988 the SADF staged massive conventional raids into Angola and Zambia to eliminate PLAN's forward operating bases.[32] It also deployed specialist counter-insurgency units such as Koevoet and 32 Battalion trained to carry out external reconnaissance and track guerrilla movements.[33]

South African tactics became increasingly aggressive as the conflict progressed.[32] The SADF's incursions produced Angolan casualties and occasionally resulted in severe collateral damage to economic installations regarded as vital to the Angolan economy.[34] Ostensibly to stop these raids, but also to disrupt the growing alliance between the SADF and the National Union for the Total Independence for Angola (UNITA), which the former was arming with captured PLAN equipment,[35] the Soviet Union backed the People's Armed Forces of Liberation of Angola (FAPLA) through a large contingent of military advisers and up to four billion dollars' worth of modern defence technology in the 1980s.[36] Beginning in 1984, regular Angolan units under Soviet command were confident enough to confront the SADF.[36] Their positions were also bolstered by thousands of Cuban troops. [36] The state of war between South Africa and Angola briefly ended with the short-lived Lusaka Accords, but resumed in August 1985 as both PLAN and UNITA took advantage of the ceasefire to intensify their own guerrilla activity, leading to a renewed phase of FAPLA combat operations culminating in the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale.[34] The South African Border War was virtually ended by the Tripartite Accord, mediated by the United States, which committed to a withdrawal of Cuban and South African military personnel from Angola and South West Africa, respectively.[37] PLAN launched its final guerrilla campaign in April 1989.[38] South West Africa received formal independence as the Republic of Namibia a year later, on 21 March 1990.[22]

Despite being largely fought in neighbouring states, the South African Border War had a phenomenal cultural and political impact on South African society.[39] The country's apartheid government devoted considerable effort towards presenting the war as part of a containment programme against regional Soviet expansionism[40] and used it to stoke public anti-communist sentiment.[41] It remains an integral theme in contemporary South African literature at large and Afrikaans-language works in particular, having given rise to a unique genre known as grensliteratuur (directly translated "border literature").[34]

Ignorance is always bliss - Russia since 1992 is not a Communist Country.   Some Companies have links to the Kremlin and people like Clinton, Pelosi , Biden and a lot of other politicians were bribed by them.  

It it as a capitalist country - why have Sout African F armers relocated to Russia to farm there,   Russia is in a way more capitalist than the socialist corrupting Democrats in the USA.

Now idiots are at it again - they never learn from history when they try and create artificial countries.    The USA  has an atrocious history in Iraq after they brought down Husein - but idiots never learn not to try and repeat historic failures,

Listen dim cunt I was a lt in the SA Army after attending a number of specialist courses as well.    But in the end that has nothing to do with the craziness you try to convey on site.  Is it necessary for you to post junk on site or is it just an inability to think before you do?

I will tell you why I hated the Communists - but that was ended in 1991 and in 1993 I went to Russia on holiday and was surprised by the friendliness of the people.    The monsters created by Hollywood the ordinary people are not.    But I want to tell you another thing and that is that the USA are rapidly down the rat hole if the present quasi-Communist Regime in the USA stay in power.                 

Draad

Du you know that the CIA in th e 1970's had secret plans to use SA as a place from where  UNITA could  be supplied with weaponry and they were actually behind the SA invasion of Angola.   MY brother was then active service in Angola and he told me that they could see the lights of Luanda - when out of the Blue the overt support of the USA was withdrawn.        

Yes, I know Mike. I read everything I can find about 32 Battalion...we had some fierce warriors in those days...

So Mike tell us about your military service …..you were a ‘lieutenant’ in the SA army? This is news. From what I recall you couldn’t serve for medical reasons. So what regiment, when and  where did you do your basic training. Did these er ‘special courses’ involve actually being in the army. 

Mozart you are a stupid faggot with your bullshit. 31 trillion dollars debt and rising. Your debt is bigger than your economy. A big bubble that's fucking over. Yankies are a fucking embarrassment a big failure on the world stage. The West is fucking over. Europe is into the shitter because of and for AmeriKKKa. The most evil, vile, corrupt and perverted country in all of human history. 

CM interested to read about the lights of Luanda being in view.

I did service during that period and also viewed the lights of Luanda. Would be interested to find out which unit your brother served in as we could have been in the same outfit.

No the debt is not bigger than the economy. First of all, 7 trillion is inter government debt…owed by one branch to another. When you take that away the remaining 24 trillion yields a debt cost of $680 billion, easily serviced by a GNP of $21 trillion. And dwarfed by the national wealth ….including households the US has $ 269 trillion in assets and $145 trillion in all forms of debt. 

The numbers are large, but include the mortgage sector for example where much of the price, up to 80%, is debt financed. 

The pressure will come if interest rates rise dramatically ….but there is no concern about the debt not being serviced. 

He was a tank driver - that is all I know and he died in 2005 from cancer. so I cannot get furtteer info.    He came to see me in Pretoria once and asked me to teach him how to play poker as the guys were gmbling a lot when on duty in Angola and the then South West Africa.    I told him it is impossible to teach someone how to play poker - it is an art form with a huge psychological back-up  requirement.      

Thanks CM not my outfit.

Thanks CM not my outfit.

Thanks CM not my outfit.

Sorry about the repeats but we sometimes have an issue getting a posting posted.

No clever remarks thanks.

No problem Arthur...thank you for your service...honor "knowing" you.

Mozart

Whenever you write  BS on site - and that is frequently - and I correct the BS  like happened above - the same technique is used to personalize the issue in a desperate attack on me and what I did ever,   I am not accountable  to you for anything so F-Off.

In other words you were lying again and never did your military service.

Mozart F O - prejudiced idiot.

Mozart F O - prejudiced idiot.

Now I have seen everything Mrs Searle schooling Mozzzz who is trying to say the 31 trillion in debt is not a problem as long as interest rates are next to zero. Good luck with that line of argument. 

Of course interests will rise due to the manufactured inflation Biden has set in place. But increasing interest rates will further mess up the economy. The perfect storm all as planned. 

Reminds me of his other blunders like  Big Pharma haven't made money out of the deadly jabs.

The worst blunder though is his defending these deadly jabs at every turn. Anybody still thinking that these jabs are safe and effective is either ignorant or an outright liar. 

I see our resident buffoon is attempting to say Putin is threatening to use nukes against the West. 

What the dumbass ignores is what Putin actually said. He never said anything but that if Mother Russia was attacked nucleur weapons could be used to DEFEND Russia. 

Now we see Zelensky calling pre emptive strikes against Russia! It's clear that expanding eastwards was all part of a plan to destroy Russia who has not apparently bent the knee to the Globalists. 

We all know who the instigator of this absurd war is. It's the Globalists as represented by Biden and his handlers, the Demonrats and members of the Uniparty as well as Globalist leaders in the EU

We all should know by now what Klaus Schwab and the WEF want. An economic collapse and the Great Reset. 

Can the freedom loving people of the world rise up and smash the Globalist elites. 

Time will tell.

No Russia should not be carved up and it won't. What must happen is that the European Nation States MUST regain their individual sovereignty. As always that whacked out weirdo sharktwit gets it a wrong. However he is not nearly as dangerous as the seemingly sensible Mozzz who plays a far more cunning game.

Mrs Searle the situation in America is this.

You have many truly excellent people in America who are horrified at what has happened to their country and are now fighting back hard. 

But the gutter has come to power hell bent on trying to destroy America and the world so they can implent their Great Reset and Build Back Better. 

America governed by Patriots is a blessing to the American People and the World.

But governed as they are by anti American Globalist Marxist traitors America becomes a menace to the world on so many fronts. 

Proof. America and the world were a far, far better off when Trump was President. Nobody can dispute that. 

Draad stop being such a weak fence sitter. Grow a pair! Mike is quite right. Russia is not a communist country. In fact while they have left communism Western Europe have embraced it. Easter Europe having experienced communism wants none if it. 

HasBeen let’s suppose the interest rate is an inconceivable 10%….the debt service goes up to $2.4 trillion from $700 billion….an increase of $1.7 trillion. So total government spending goes up to 11.7 trillion vs a current 10.0 trillion. 

That would certainly force higher taxes or a cut in government programs. It would not cause the US to default or crater the economy.

But long before we reached that point the stresses on the economy would kill inflation and things would adjust. 

Nobody is saying the spending isn’t irresponsible. Biden’s spending last year was the last straw in the inflation debacle, along with supply chain issues and changes in the propensity to work following Covid and government free money. Now he has a problem.

But the US economy is still humming along, some sectors like consumer discretionary, are struggling….others are actually gaining strength. 

One thing you can forget about is the end of America nonsense you and saggy tits believe.

It is not the eeconomy thta cause problems - it is the deep divide in US politics promoted by elements in the media that poses a threat to Democracy in the USA that poses a serious future problem as the existence of the USA s it used to be known. 

There always was a minimal degree of political divide in the USA    It was mostly bsseed on centrist policies both parties accepted.   The Demoorats was a centrist - slightly leftist  party with more inclined to spend Government money - the Republican Party was centrist with an element of conservatism be present.

The degree of differentiation became more noticeable in the second term of Obama's presidency and has reached the present level of extreme divide on the political scene.    The Dempocratic Party moved to the left and some of their policies are farfetched and counter-productive.    All opposition to the Democratic Party is made out to be "domestic terrorists". Everybody opposed the new doctrine with nasty race connotations  is really destructive and unless something is done to correct the situation  the USA would be self-destructing..                      

@DumbMike, how did you become such an expert on American politics?
You just happen to know more than anyone, even if someone actually lives in America.

Because I read widely on the issue - and not only the media.   The fact is in some aspects the USA are similar to every other country in the modern world.    The fact is the modern world is being destroyed by attacks on Democracy by elements in the political arena with the emphasis being in total control of the world by a moneyed and  political elite.   Aocording to opinion polls the majority of the USA residents are aware of the situation and that means that I am not the only person who knows it.       

It is no different from what happened in Russia in 1917-18 - where the capitalists funded the Russian Communist Regime and keep funding the Regime until Reagan, Kohl and Thatcher stopped the flow of money sustaining the Regime in Russia and the collapse of the USSR by 1991.   The same applies in the Alliance of the major Capitalists in Germany in the 1930's leading to the Fascist takeover of Germany in the 1930/'s and at present in China.   In the USA the situation is that the media owners regard Trump is a threat to them taking over control of an inherently corrupt Government and posing a threat to their hold on the Democratic Party.   

In essence that led to a vicious attack on the Trump Presidency - the Russian Hoax lies were used for four years  for the said purpose and gullible people fell for it.    In the end the Trump presidency was successful in furthering the personal well-being of most people in the USA.   The Government approach based on real legislation proposed by the presidency was mostly centrist in approach - but was made out by the media and their owners to be ultra-right and a threat to Democracy.

The Political divide at present in the USA is between the adherents to the USA constitution and those opposed to the guarantees provided in the Constitution.   If you look at the policies of the present Biden Administration it is diametrically  opposed to -

*    the need to control issues by requiring legislation to be approved by Congress and prefer governance by bureaucrats through regulations and by mandates of the Presidency and not legislature passed by Congress as elected b y the voters - examples being the open Birder policy and the policy on abortions, 

*    the attacks on all opposition to the present regime as being "domestic terrorists";

*    the use of unelected Bureaucrats in Government to undermine the Constitution - eg the using of schools in terms of Stalinist methods to cause destruction of family as a factor and using children to undermine the concept of family as a norm in society and using of brainwashed children to sustain a one-party support base; and 

*    usage of racism as a means to divide the country and the inciting of violence - eg the riots in the USA in 2020 and the present age of racialism as a dividing factor in the USA, 

*    the use of policies to promote inflation and undermine the economic security of  the ordinary people in the USA, and

*    a level of corruption in Government reaching alarming levels in all arms of Government and usage of the Justice department to prevent prosecution of corrupt politicians and for actios to intimidate people against the Government.   

There are literally hundreds of examples that can be quoted where attacks on Democracy is ongoing.              

Varius books on Russin History  over many years  nd a visit to Russia in 1993  to start with on Russian on holiday om 1993 insofar as Russia os concerned.   Inclusive of Wikipedia starting with War and Peace of Tolstoy by far th best book ever written dealing with the history of Russia and the culture of the people pf Russia.     The history of Crimea - the life of peter the Great and Catherine the Great that resulted in the formation of Russia as a country,    Did you for instance know that Catherine the Great was not even a Russian - but was a German - who was married to the Russian Crown Prince and later Emperor Peter III - who was dethroned and killed - putting her on the thrown.   She had 4 children - all of them by different fathers and was a nymphomaniac  who had 22 lovers in her life.    But s also introduced the jury system in Russia long before western countries and education for women log before it became  the norm in the West.

As to the USA the life of every President since 1900 - the warmongering by some.   Used to watch CNN before it became a lying propaganda outfit - various outlines of the Obama and now Boden Presidency with proof of corruption involving Obama., Clinton and Biden as politicians and proof of their personal involvement in corruption.   For instance the Liz Cheney and her father's involvement in Haliburton and Romney's invovlement in Bains.    Pelosi and Schiff's involvement in Ukraine corruption which mirrored Biden's one as well.    

In the case of the Russian Hoax bsed on lie conconcted by the Democrats and onvolvment of Obama and the CIA and FBI in concocting of the lies together with regular press leakages.   The present situation as to the ownership of media and the use of the media to advance the interests of their owners - the collusion between the Democrats and the media to ensure that investigations against the Democratic Party leadership is not investigated  despite adequate evidence.

Books on the Korean, the Vietnam and Iraq wars as well as the involvement of the USA in Afghanistan,    I still watch CNN and read media outlets internet programs - but can see clearly hate programs on most programs.    Since 2012 hate mongering in the media has worsened considerably.    I also studied the ruing of the Supreme Court on Abortion.   Nowhere in that ruling was abortion banned - the ruling said abortion must be dealt with in legislation by the elected representatives of the people and not by regulations compiled by bureaucrats - inclusive of corruption in execution -but the media went ballistic about.  The Mueller and Inspector Gerneral's report dealing with and usage of the Steele Dossier to spy on the Trump campaign.   The race issue started by the New York Times in January 2020 as an eletion issue and usage of riots in USA cities - which was not reported on in the media    who describe the so-called protests as peaceful - which it was not as proven by real evidence, 

Try the above to start with and add to that the Ukraine history as well.          

I have read War and Peace several times. And Tolstoy would never have defended Russia’s aggression in the Ukraine. He would have seen Putin in the same light as Napoleon.

There is nothing in Russian literature all the way through to Quiet Flows the Don which would support Russian aggression or it’s brutality towards any dissenting domestic voices.

I agree with you Mozart.   Tolstoy was a soldier in the Crimea and became an advocate of peace.   However, what I wonder is whether Tolstoy would accept the murder of thusands of Russian speaking people in Ukraine that took place from 2015 to 2022.  

The brutality of any Government was always condemned by Tolstoy and he had to be careful not to displease the sensors.    He was a man of peace and not violence.    However the real level of brutality is mild compared to what it was under Lenin and Stalin.   

The situation that most people ignore is that Ukraine - like Yugoslavia - was an artificial state created by the Communists in 1953 to ensure that the Russia population within Ukraine would effectively ensure that reactionary Ukrainians do not take over Government in the Ukraine,

The real civil war situation started when a coup was organized and funded by the USA that eliminated totally the Ukraine constitution and that led directly to the civil war that started in 2014 and was still ongoing when the Russians invaded  Ukraine.    The story about a Democracy in Ukraine is total BS and propaganda.   The fact is the Government at present is a 1 Party dictatorship and the insignia of elements of the army is Nazi-based. 

The Russians should not have invaded Ukraine - but the USA should not have promoted  a proxy war against Russia,    and definitely not undermined constitutionality in Ukraine by the 2014 coup.     There were efforts by various countries to create negotiations to cease the war situation - but every time some progress  were made in the process it was stymied by the Biden Administration and announcements by the US President himself.

Everybody is hoping for peace  - but that is definitely not on when the USA sabotaged the  Baltic  Pipeline.   Satellite images showed US helicopters based in Gdansk in Poland hovering over the site - yet the Americans were told by media and by the WH Putin sabotaged the pipeline.    Why is the US Government the involved in warmongering and undermining of   peace negotiations?                              

So you are saying the US was willing to condemn Europe to a winter of even less energy….and the Europeans were willing to accept this fate without any protest. Utter nonsense,

Well - the Europeans hass clearly indicated they are ppissed off - - the Swedish and Italian Governing parties both lost the elections in the past 14 days in the two countries.   In especially Italy the voters were pissed off by the inflation and the Russian case being a major by-product of Biden's policies.   So what else is true - your ignorance  above or what I wrote.   Western European countries are affected and the people are indeed pissed off by their own Goernment kow-toiwng to Biden's policies and if elections are held in Germany, France and the UK the governing parties will lose power as well.   

So please add one and one together and get 2 - not 9 - as your comments implied.   Even though Macron won by a reduced majority the Presidential election earlier this year he is without Parliamentary support  and he may have to call a Parliamentary election soon and his party would be routed.  Germany has a coalition Government and that can break up any day sooner rather than later and a further election may result with ghastly consequences for their present Governing parties.   In the UK the Conservatives have lost support so badly that the Conservative Party is self-destructing.   The same situation is found in virtually every country in Europe.

So the people are objecting and all the US news media is shouting fascism is rife in Europe - but unlike your unthinking statement the people of Europe are indeed protesting.    

I’m not talking about elections you moron. I’m talking about government. Do you really believe the EU would accept the cutting of their energy in the middle of an energy crisis….without formal objection. Do you really believe the US doesn’t understand a European economic crash will adversely  affect the US.

Yep, you are so stupid, so full of bar room wisdom, that you believe that nonsense. Stop posting rubbish.

You are talking about Governments protesting  - but in Democratic Countries the voters decide who should be in Government.    Politicians have protested  - especially Macron was pissed off when he was negotiating a return to the 2015 Minsk agreement and Biden shouted off in public that the objective of the USA was to replace Putin  and the negotiations broke down completely.

But lets go outside of the EU and look at  the BRICS countries making up \42% of the world population,   South Africa gave Blinken a talk down on USA undermining negotiations to find a peaceful solution in Ukraine - the SA Government speaking on behalf of all the BRICS  countries send him packing.   Turkey - a NATO member - tried to negotiate and gave up because of Biden incitement of Zelenskyy not to negotiate.   

So wake up to real facts and not Goebbels talk by the media in the USA.    Election time and anything can be expected from the USA Government,   They already blew up  the Baltic Sea pipeline and it won't  surprise me if they were involved in the bridge damage  of the Asov Sea  bridge.    Theya re bound to try and cause reaction of Putin through further attacks on Russia.            

Mozart

I read in an article that the outlook of the USA economy is not as good as you claim it is,  Apparently in New Yorik there is a clock indicating the US debt situation on a daily basis.   

According to the clock  the US Government debt is $31,111 trillion  and the maximum allowed for raising loans is $31 114 trillion.    The  loan expenditure increase by $6 billion dollars per day and the loans are already 25% above the GDP   of the USA.

From January 2017 to date the USA debts increased from $23,5 trillion to $31,1 Trillion.

There seems to be a need to -

*     limit loan financing to  capital investment projects that would aid growth in the country; and 

*     not to fund current expenditure from loan financing. 

The way Bi den is going the US Economy could crash and  consequences would be found worldwide.