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The truth about South Africa according to Kiwis who live there

Started by bobbok...47 REPLIES1,136 VIEWS· 12 Feb 2020, 05:33
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BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2020, 05:33
#1
12 Feb 2020, 05:33#1

This article was first published in October. South Africa's Rugby World Cup win at the weekend was hailed as a beacon of hope for unity and social progress in the Rainbow Nation.

When Marlene Stephenson moved to South Africa in 2010 (much to her Kiwi family's alarm), the three things that struck her most at first were how consistently beautiful the weather was, how dire the poverty and how alert people were to the possibility of being robbed, assaulted or worse. 

For a Wellingtonian who had lived in the UK for the past decade, the uninterrupted stream of bright, blue-sky days was astonishing. On the darker side, she says new arrivals are inevitably stuck by the large numbers of people begging at traffic lights and junctions and the ubiquitous buildings with barred windows surrounded by high walls and electric fences. 

MARLENE STEPHENSONMarlene says she - and most people she knows in South Africa - have a good work-life balance there.

"After growing up in New Zealand and living in Europe, this seemed completely alien."

2m 17s

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You may think you've seen all there is to see on South Africa's Garden Route, but one or all of these spots may have eluded your previous road trip itineraries.

Marlene, now 48, had been ready to return to New Zealand but when her South African husband was offered a job in South Africa's largest city, Johannesburg, and her London employer said she could work from there, the couple decided to give life in the so-called "rainbow nation" a go. 

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Marlene had holidayed in South Africa before so "had some idea" what to expect but the realities of day-to-day life there came as a shock. 

With the number of murders and sexual offences, including rapes, on the rise according to official figures released in September, along with frequent muggings, carjackings, burglaries and assaults, many – Marlene included – are forever alert to potential danger. 

She has altered her behaviour as a result: She no longer walks anywhere or wears jewellery and is hyper aware of her surroundings. 

"Most of the crime occurs in the townships, although there are definitely carjackings in driveways and regular burglaries, which are often violent." 

MARLENE STEPHENSONWhile there are lots of things she likes about South Africa, Marlene says she has 'issues with the crime, poverty, uncertainty about the future, and the difficulty in obtaining employment'.

That said, she feels it as not the anarchical society it is sometimes portrayed to be.

"Yes, the crime is much higher than in New Zealand but there is not general lawlessness in the street. Okay, there is sometimes, but not in [the affluent area of] Sandton. You just have to adjust to a different lifestyle."

In the Stephensons' nine years in Jo'burg, as locals call it, Marlene, her husband and their young son Aidan have never been victims of crime – and she doesn't think it's just because they've had luck on their side. 

"If you are careful and very security conscious, especially in your housing arrangements, I think you would have to be unlucky to be a victim of crime. On the other hand, if you are not careful, you will likely quite quickly become one."

MARLENE STEPHENSONMarlene (right) says the best things about life in South Africa are the weather and 'good lifestyle in terms of housing and cost'.

With crime so rife it curbs your freedom (a byproduct of the stark divide between rich and poor) and racism still deeply embedded 25 years after white minority rule ended, one might wonder why New Zealanders choose to move there. Especially when so many South Africans have emigrated to New Zealand for safety reasons.

But, as most people who have spent time in the country point out, it has a hell of a lot going for it. Extraordinary landscapes ranging from parks and reserves so full of wildlife the country is considered one of the best on the continent for safaris, to scorched semideserts, lush mountain ranges, the old-growth forests of the Garden Route, the vineyards of Cape Winelands and powdery Indian Ocean beaches, it seems tailor-made for outdoor adventure.

Despite the ever-simmering racial tensions that occasionally bubble out of control, there is also immense pride among many of the local people about how far their country has come since government-sanctioned racial segregation and economic discrimination against non-whites ended. 

ISTOCKCape Town (pictured), Johannesburg and Pretoria are the most popular locations for expats, according to an HSBC survey.

HSBC named South Africa as the 33rd best country in the world for expats in its 2019 Expat Explorer Survey, placing it ahead of Indonesia, Japan and Brazil. Switzerland and Singapore topped the ranking, while New Zealand came in at number five. 

Describing South Africa as "an economic powerhouse", the bank's report on the survey says its "fantastic climate, spectacular natural beauty and outdoor lifestyle" draw people from around the world, with most choosing to live in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Cape Town. 

The country's combination of "first and third world" elements makes it a fascinating, if at times frustrating, place to call home, the report says. 

"Bureaucracy and inefficiency often result in delays and there's no escaping the politics of race. But the country's spirit is unbreakable and contagious, uniting its people as a rainbow nation."

HOUSE OF TRAVELSouth Africa is considered one of the best countries on the continent for safaris.

Both Marlene and Alana Dell, another Johannesburg-based Kiwi, agree with the report on the climate and natural beauty fronts and say they have a great standard of living in the country of 56 million people and 11 official languages. 

Living in a secure complex of 17 houses in Standton, which she describes as one of the nicest places to live in South Africa in terms of amenities, schools and shops, Marlene feels that, like most of the people she knows there, she has a good work-life balance. 

When the company she worked for made her redundant a couple of years ago, she soon determined that it would be "pretty much impossible" to land a permanent role in a corporate environment because of "employment equity" laws designed to eliminate unfair discrimination in the workplace. The legislation forms part of the government's Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) programme aimed at helping to redress the inequalities of apartheid. 

"This means black staff are in high demand and whites are finding it increasingly difficult to find work, as the restrictions keep getting tighter," Marlene says. "I would rather see equality for all people in South Africa based on merit. There is a lot of guilt here over apartheid and no one publicly complains about the system."

SUPPLIEDSafari destinations such as Kruger, Chobe, Etosha and the Okavango Delta are home to wildlife including leopards, lions, elephants, giraffes, rhinos and buffaloes.

Giving up on finding suitable work, Marlene applied for a business visa and set up her own company specialising in negotiating and drafting commercial contracts. Her first clients were friends but the business has grown through word of mouth and she's as busy now as she wants to be. Being her own boss gives her the flexibility to pick up her son from school and take him to his after-school activities and the family spends a lot of time together at weekends. 

With clear blue skies almost every day and short, very mild winters, the Stephensons spend most of their free time outdoors, swimming in their pool, enjoying the many open spaces and playground cafes and catching up with friends over braais (barbecues).

Living in a complex and having a South African husband with a large circle of friends has made it easy for her to get to know people, she says, noting that she has found South Africans to be friendly and easy going in general and typically very keen for a bit of banter about the All Blacks.   

South Africa offers a high standard of living for the middle and upper classes, she says, noting that people who fall into these categories typically have big houses with big gardens and pools, send their children to private schools and have staff to do the cooking, cleaning and gardening and take care of the children. Food, clothes and most other items are "quite a bit cheaper" than in New Zealand, she says. 

MARLENE STEPHENSONMarlene's son Aidan at the holiday resort of Nature's Valley along the fabled Garden Route.

In the HSBC survey, expats in South Africa reported a similar income to those in New Zealand, but better career progression and higher disposable income. With an unemployment rate of about 47 per cent, however, many people in South Africa are not so lucky.

"I don't think you ever really get used to the poverty," Marlene says. She also finds the "very big sensitivity to race" difficult to deal with. 

"People won't describe a woman as just that. It has to be a "black woman" or a "coloured woman" or a "white woman". People are very careful here to avoid being seen to be racist and there is a lot of labelling of actions as "racist", when it is not necessarily the case."

Asked about the toughest aspects of life in South Africa, Marlene cites "the crime, the economic uncertainty, the systematic corruption and the constant interaction with beggars while driving. The begging is quite hard to take, especially when you are asked for money by mothers with young babies and disabled people. There are some social grants here, but they are for a very small amount of money." 

MARLENE STEPHENSONSouth Africa has more than 2500km of coast, from its border with Namibia in the west to its Indian Ocean border with Mozambique in the east.

Alana, who also moved to the country after falling for a South African in London, says she too found the disparities between rich and poor shocking at first. 

"I wasn't ready for the juxtaposition of the first and third worlds," she says of the "hundreds of tin shacks" that cling precariously to a hillside in the centre of a city which, on the whole, is now smartening up and expanding. 

"I'd travelled in developing countries, but seeing people walking on the motorway with firewood on their heads was unexpected."

Initially settling in Pretoria in 2002, Alana found the prevalence of Afrikaans in the city such a barrier to settling in that and her husband relocated to Jo'burg.  

While there are greater job opportunities in Jo'burg, Alana isn't sure she would have found one without the help of friends in the city she had met during her London days, again because of the employment equity laws. 

MARLENE STEPHENSONAidan at Afriski Mountain Resort in Lesotho.

"I didn't use a job agency as foreigners are pretty much automatically excluded from jobs, so I called companies to look for roles," the now 45-year-old, originally from Tauranga, says. "My South African friends were great connections to help me get leverage."

Landing a job fairly quickly, Alana eventually began to feel settled, aided by the friends she made through a book club she started. 

Now living in the leafy, multicultural suburb of Emmarentia and working as the director of a mobile research agency, she says she has a great work-life balance. Like Marlene, she has flexible working hours and she arranges her schedule so she can spend spend afternoons with her two young sons. 

Alana cites the "amazing weather" as one of the best things about living in South Africa, along with the bigger homes due to the lower cost and greater availability of land, friendly people and "diversity of thought and culture". 

MARLENE STEPHENSONMarlene and Aiden at one of the many playground cafes they regularly visit in Jo'burg.

No matter how big your home and beautifully diverse your suburb though, it's hard to feel entirely secure when your country is rocked by corruption scandals (former president Jacob Zuma is set to stand trial on corruption charges) and crime is rampant. 

Alana blames corruption for what she has perceived to be a drop in the quality of life in South Africa over the past five years. While, like Marlene, she feels South Africa is often made out to be more crime ridden than it is, she acknowledges that fear of becoming a victim has a big impact on many, particularly women and children, even if only indirectly. 

"The lack of physical freedom you have as a female (or child) is one of the hardest [things about living there]. I don't feel at ease walking alone on the streets or the beach or in the parks." 

Many South Africans who have chosen to emigrate to New Zealand say they or their family members were victims of crime in their homeland, with many saying crime is as bad – or worse – than it is made out to be in the news. 

SuppliedMarlene says she was surprised 'by how beautiful and diverse South Africa is. From the mountains to veld and coast, there are some very beautiful places...'

With a long list of tales of violence, it's no surprise that New Zealand-based South African, Marli Esterhuizen, feels her homeland "is as dangerous as they say". In South Africa, she says she and a friend had knives held to their throats as they were robbed in on their way back to their apartment block one evening, and her husband was at a friend's house when five guys broke in in broad daylight, robbed the place and tried to rape his friend's sister. Her own sister, she says, has been hijacked twice in the past year – once at gunpoint. 

"There's more I could tell you from other friends' experiences. That was normal. When we survive, we celebrate with a braai."

The "very limited" job opportunities are another reason Marli feels South Africa is a "challenging" place to live right now. Those on low to medium salaries often don't earn enough, she says, to be able to afford to live in a secure complex, drive a secure car or take out private health insurance, all of which she feels are necessities in the current climate. 

That said, she still loves her homeland, citing the diverse landscapes, "great" restaurants and bars and "vibrant and social" people as just a few of its assets. 

"SA is a great place to travel to, but I always tell my foreign friends 'keep your touristy look low'... And get in touch with someone in SA to show you around and give you tips and hook you up with drivers and friends, especially when going the first time."

MARLENE STEPHENSONMost middle- and upper-class households have their own swimming pools, Marlene says.

Chalmaine Hart, another South African now living in New Zealand, says she grew up knowing you should never walk anywhere at night or display your phone or wallet in public and that certain areas (she lived in the Northern Cape before moving to Amanzimtoti, south of Durban, at age 15) "were off-limits for good reason". Drive with your windows open and you can expect to be carjacked, she says; venture into a dodgy ares on your own as a woman and there's every chance you may be raped or kidnapped. 

South Africans, she says, consider such restrictions normal, typically telling themselves that "if you stick to the rules you'll be safe".

Unlike Marlene and Alana, Chalmaine feels the crime in South Africa is worse than it is often portrayed to be.  

"We used to go to work, go straight home afterwards and be thankful to wake up the next day.... It's not a life, it's just an existence in SA."

She and her partner moved to New Zealand to give themselves and their children a more secure future – she couldn't come to terms with them growing up in a country in which she had to teach them what to do in the event of a carjacking or home invasion. Here, she says, they have a freedom they never had in South Africa. 

SUPPLIEDUlusuba: Richard Branson's private safari game reserve in South Africa's Sabi Sand Reserve.

"You can walk to school. You can go camping in the bush… Kids can be kids."

Alana can identify. While she would have rated her life in South Africa eight out of 10 a few years ago, she'd now give it a six. 

"As the kids have got older, some of my friends have left the country, the ethnic challenges have escalated and the economy has struggled, I've become less happy with being in South Africa." 

So much so that she's now planning to return to New Zealand. 

"We've decided we'd like the kids to go to high school in New Zealand and live a freer way of life."

HOUSE OF TRAVELTourists should have a great time in South Africa if they take the right precautions, NZ-based South African Marli Esterhuizen says.

Marlene also misses the freedom she had in New Zealand to walk more or less wherever she pleased "and carry a handbag and a phone at the same time! Although New Zealand has its problems, it doesn't have the huge inequalities you see in South Africa."

She also misses the "do-it-yourself" culture of her homeland, saying she has been surprised by the number of seemingly simple things many affluent South Africans are unable to do because they've never had to.

"Knowing how to iron a shirt among the middle and upper classes is not common here!"

While there is a lot she loves about the country – the beauty and diversity of the landscapes being chief among them – she too is keen to return to New Zealand, saying the crime, corruption, poverty, employment difficulties and uncertainty would be impossible to reconcile herself to permanently. 

"I'm looking for a crowbar big enough to wedge my husband out of South Africa," she quips. "Wherever I go in the world, I always call New Zealand home. I love getting off the plane in Wellington and smelling the clean air and the sea. And having a flat white in a cafe while reading the Dominion Post!" 

Stuff

Comments70
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
12 Feb 2020, 06:03
#2
12 Feb 2020, 06:03#2

Bunch of NZ bs.....land in NZ and go 20 years back in time.

BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
12 Feb 2020, 06:30
#3
12 Feb 2020, 06:30#3

What's todays temperature at ice station Chicago ?

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
12 Feb 2020, 07:22
#4
12 Feb 2020, 07:22#4

TLDR;

SA sucks and she'd rather be in NZ.

I agree with the first part.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
12 Feb 2020, 07:33
#5
12 Feb 2020, 07:33#5

Good read, thanks Blob...friends of mine who emigrated said it takes about 5 years to get used to not constantly having to look over your shoulder.

DA
Devil's AdvocatePro7,008 posts
12 Feb 2020, 10:05
#6
12 Feb 2020, 10:05#6

Very interesting article, thanks Blob

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
15 Feb 2020, 23:26
#7
15 Feb 2020, 23:26#7

Never forget our visit to NZ in 2001.

Saturday morning around 9 am we were sitting outside a Starbucks in Wellington with another couple and enjoying a bit of sunshine and coffee.

A bus arrives and stops at the bus stop and passengers exit the bus.

Around 60% of the passengers who got off the bus were barefoot.

I was astounded to see this as Wellington is the Capital and we were in Downtown Wellington. The couple sitting behind our foursome overheard our talk about the barefoot Islanders and explained that it was quite normal for people to walk around barefoot even downtown in the capital of NZ.

When I was a young lad in SA it was common to see children walking around in their yards and parks but nobody went downtown or caught a bus not wearing shoes.

This lady living in RSA must be missing that custom but she is more than welcome to walk around RSA "barefoot to feel at home".


SE
SebPro2,680 posts
16 Feb 2020, 17:49
#8
16 Feb 2020, 17:49#8

SA is a very beautiful country but it is painful to live here now and see the country being desecrated.

It was once a 1000 times more beautiful, no litter , no pollution and little crime but what now has happened is sacrilege .

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
16 Feb 2020, 18:20
#9
16 Feb 2020, 18:20#9

A little secret spot, I will share with some of you in SA that even most Saffa's don't know...you can holiday there at probably 1/10 th of the cost in Austria or Switzerland...skiing with no crime and no irritating jet-setters, lovely people and mouth-watering food. A little heaven and paradise, and stunning scenery.

https://youtu.be/EjeOjCSgQdA

It's about R510 pd per person.

The cheapest in Austria is through Tomski resorts at over R5000 pd per person but others are considerably more than this and that doesn't include the costs of getting there and extras.

So if you ever want to ski and many other activities besides the absolute beauty and wildness of Africa this the place, I can assure you it's an absolute must. One of our best holidays ever...we honeymooned there.



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
16 Feb 2020, 22:09
#10
16 Feb 2020, 22:09#10

Snippy Blob.....nobody said Chicago has great weather at this time. That’s why people go down to Florida for winter. But in summer....it’s really quite nice.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,216 posts
17 Feb 2020, 03:05
#11
17 Feb 2020, 03:05#11
Expat South Africans should colonize a new country. Given so many are all over the world. Somewhere nice and warm with lots of beaches. New Zealand will suffice for now...
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Feb 2020, 08:22
#12
17 Feb 2020, 08:22#12

Shark, OZ is much better. 

AJ
AJHPro3,183 posts
17 Feb 2020, 18:04
#13
17 Feb 2020, 18:04#13

I agree with Oz over NZ any day.

SH
sharkbokCaptain23,216 posts
17 Feb 2020, 18:16
#14
17 Feb 2020, 18:16#14
I would certainly choose the Gold Coast, surfers paradise over most places. It is apparently the closest place to Durban. My sister lives there, and I was meant to go over this winter(UK) but I sprained my knee. 
Onse land... Maak die GoldCoast Almal South Efrica. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Feb 2020, 19:00
#15
17 Feb 2020, 19:00#15

There are thousands of well educated Aussies who have made the US home.....the reverse happens rarely. It’s better to be in the big city than  a country bumpkin.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
17 Feb 2020, 19:06
#16
17 Feb 2020, 19:06#16
Pffffhahahaha . . . says the pompous and self-important old snob living in the shithole that is Chicago!
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Feb 2020, 19:18
#17
17 Feb 2020, 19:18#17

Say Peeper, have you ever been to Chicago?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Feb 2020, 19:30
#18
17 Feb 2020, 19:30#18

Number of US emigrants to Oz 3304....number of Australian immigrants in the USA 60000 plus:


. From 1971 to 1990, more than 86,400 Australians and New Zealanders immigrated to the United States.[1] At the 2000 U.S. Census, 60,965 Australian born people were enumerated in the United States, of which 15,315 were citizens. Around 40% of Australian Americans had entered the United States before 1980.[2] Since 2010, a Little Australia has emerged and is growing in NolitaManhattanNew York City.[3]


And many of those Aussies have something you don’t have Peeper, a post graduate degree. Case closed

SE
SebPro2,680 posts
17 Feb 2020, 19:53
#19
17 Feb 2020, 19:53#19

Some like the sunny places, others like to be near big cities but live in a leafy suburbs and are not fazed by cold winters, others are sick of cold England and dream of the tropics.

My ideal would be to live in the mountains, with beautiful crystal streams but have a huge bank balance and travel for 6 months every year, to all the remote and exotic countries that nobody knows about,  different cultures and increase my vision of the world..

Different strokes for different folks thank goodness, otherwise if we all loved the same things it would mean that our "paradises" would become overcrowded and that would spoil it.

With humans, the grass always appears to be greener on the other side, but this can be a delusion.

Only by traveling and doing it can we discover, some don't have the inclination to do it or the bank balance that it requires to fully do it without worries and that includes me.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
17 Feb 2020, 20:14
#20
17 Feb 2020, 20:14#20
"Say Peeper, have you ever been to Chicago?"
What for? It's a shithole if your idol Bozo is to be believed. This is what Bozo had to say about Chicago in October last year:
"It’s embarrassing to us as a nation. All over the world, they’re talking about Chicago. Afghanistan is a safe place by comparison, it’s true."
LMAO!
Why would anyone want to visit that dump? Hmmm?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Feb 2020, 21:39
#21
17 Feb 2020, 21:39#21

Dear me....I don’t know one person who has experienced anything other than petty theft in Chicago. Half the people I know in South Africa have experienced dangerous incidents, in some of the best suburbs.


If Chicago is a shithole....what is Johannesburg.


But thanks for placing your chin so precisely for a sucker punch.


LMAOFY!

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
17 Feb 2020, 22:26
#22
17 Feb 2020, 22:26#22

JHB is a shithole of note. 

Anyway, stop lying Moz.

Juicy Smollier was attacked by two white face Nigerians in Chicago, at 2am, in the freezing cold. 

They tied that noo se so tightly around his neck, he was still trying to get it off an hour later when the cops arrived.

Petty crime. Pssshhh

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Feb 2020, 23:04
#23
17 Feb 2020, 23:04#23

Not one of my golfing buddies Plum.....I don’t know him. But I’m sure he had a nice steak before trying his caper. Maybe at the Chicago Cut, an AB haunt. Or RPM which features a superb 10 Oz  Strip . Or Gibson’s ranked 10th globally

10th. Gibsons Bar & Steakhouse – Chicago, Illinois, USA

Gibsons Bar & Steakhouse has been a Chicago icon since partners Hugo Ralli and Steve Lombardo opened its doors in May of 1989. The classic American steakhouse was even the first in the country to be awarded its own USDA Prime Beef Certification. Gibsons Prime Angus Beef stars on the menu, along with fresh fish, classic cocktails, an extensive wine list and exceptional service.

....

Personally  I prefer RPM...the Imperial Wagyu Reserve Strip is  a religious experience:

JAPANESE A5

Miyazaki*95Wagyu Champion '07 & '12

Hokkaido Snow Beef*155The Rarest Imported Wagyu

Kobe Beef*165100% Tajima, Hyogo Prefecture

Wagyumafia Exclusive*155Himeji, Japan

IMPERIAL WAGYU

Reserve Strip*8312 oz Omaha, Nebraska

Tomahawk*21542 oz Omaha, Nebraska

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 07:14
#24
18 Feb 2020, 07:14#24
Don't shoot the messenger Moffie, I'm just quoting what your idol said about Chicago being worse than Afghanistan.
Are you suggesting that Bozo is spreading fake news?
PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
18 Feb 2020, 08:35
#25
18 Feb 2020, 08:35#25

Many of the stand-up comics that I follow say that Chicago is their Mecca. 

Paraphrasing, but one guy was saying that cutting your teeth there is the best comedy education going. 

Also, Rogan is from Chicago. 

Noah is from JHB.

One is authentic and a blessing to the internet...the other is an annoying sellout pandering to every supposed marginalised community, both real and imaginary.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Feb 2020, 15:49
#26
18 Feb 2020, 15:49#26

Not my idol....just the best option available. I hate to tell you about this  Peeper, Trump was so negative on Chicago that he built this in 2009. All this stuff must be very confusing for you:



Chicago: Trump International Hotel and Tower

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 19:16
#27
18 Feb 2020, 19:16#27

"All this stuff must be very confusing for you"

Not really. Nothing confusing about this statement:

"It’s embarrassing to us as a nation. All over the world, they’re talking about Chicago. Afghanistan is a safe place by comparison, it’s true."

Afghanistan is safe by comparison. I don't think I'm the confused one here.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
18 Feb 2020, 20:00
#28
18 Feb 2020, 20:00#28

Dare I say: "Whoosh!!!"?

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:14
#29
18 Feb 2020, 21:14#29
"Dare I say: "Whoosh!!!"?"
I would expect nothing less from the most dull-witted of the Servile Gimps . . . the same unworldly simpleton who uses the term regularly without having the foggiest idea in which contex t to use it.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:23
#30
18 Feb 2020, 21:23#30

Trump is too complex a thinker for you Peeper......you just don’t get what he is doing . By all means ‘whoosh’,  Draad. Nothing less than ‘whoosh’ will do.

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:35
#31
18 Feb 2020, 21:35#31

Again, it doesn't sound particularly complex. Bozo is saying Chicago is a shithole which is less safe to live in than Afghanistan. 

Which bits of that are too complex for you?

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:39
#32
18 Feb 2020, 21:39#32

In the foreground you can see the Wrigley building with it’s iconic clock tower. In the background the Sears Tower in black....for many years the world’s tallest building. Below the Chicago river flows by on it’s way to one of the world’s largest bodies of fresh water.

New to all this architectural wealth is  the Trump Tower. Designed  by  Adrian Smith a friend, who also designed the Burj Khalifa in Dubai, to which it has a passing resemblance, and many of the world’s great buildings.


What a city!

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:45
#33
18 Feb 2020, 21:45#33
"What a city!"
Well not everyone agrees with that. The president of the USA says Chicago is embarrassing to the US as a nation and is less safe than Afghanistan. Listen here for yourself.
Who to believe?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:48
#34
18 Feb 2020, 21:48#34

Whoosh again......what a plank!

RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Feb 2020, 21:49
#35
18 Feb 2020, 21:49#35
Hahahaha!
I think I believe Bozo . . . for once.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Feb 2020, 02:10
#36
19 Feb 2020, 02:10#36


  • The Chicago River cuts right through the city. | Mlenny/E+/Getty Images 

    6. Chicago, Illinois 

    Chicago is known by some as the Second City and others as the Third Coast, but by our count, this metropolis of awe-inspiring architecture, renowned chefs, and incredible culture should be first on anyone’s list when planning a weekend trip. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Feb 2020, 02:11
#37
19 Feb 2020, 02:11#37

What a city!




DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
19 Feb 2020, 06:01
#38
19 Feb 2020, 06:01#38

"Dare I say: "Whoosh!!!"?"


I would expect nothing less from the most dull-witted of the Servile Gimps . . . the same unworldly simpleton who uses the term regularly without having the foggiest idea in which context to use it.


QED?
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
19 Feb 2020, 07:27
#39
19 Feb 2020, 07:27#39
Moffie, it doesn't matter how many pictures you put up of Chicago, how many menus you put up of overpriced and ostentatious Chicago restaurants, how many times your Gimp squeals "whoosh" or how many times you tell us how wonderful Chicago is, none of that changes the FACT that Bozo says it's a shithole.
So, again, does that mean Bozo is talking rubbish and spreading fake news?
I know it's hard for you Trumpanzees to disagree with your idol in any way but in this case I don't see any other choice for you. You're saying Chicago is wonderful and Bozo is sayng it's a shithole that is an embarrassment to the entire nation. For those of us who've never visited, who should we believe?
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
19 Feb 2020, 16:03
#40
19 Feb 2020, 16:03#40

TDS in mid season form. Chicago is the same city that the Donald dropped $847 million on building his Tower. That’s what he thinks of the city....but I accept, you don’t get it. Whoosh and TDS.

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