Three great quotes from Dr Strangelove

3. “Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader’s mule, the radio is gone and we’re leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we’d need sleigh bells on this thing…but we got one little budge on them Rooskies. At this height why they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain’t gonna spot us on no radar screen!” — Maj. Kong to his flight crew

2. “There were those of us who fought against it, but in the end we could not keep up with the expense involved in the arms race, the space race, and the peace race. At the same time our people grumbled for more nylons and washing machines. Our doomsday scheme cost us just a small fraction of what we had been spending on defense in a single year. The deciding factor was when we learned that your country was working along similar lines, and we were afraid of a doomsday gap.” — Soviet Ambassador Alexi de Sadesky (Peter Bull)

1. “Gentlemen! You can’t fight in here! This is the war room!” — President Muffley

………

I was actually looking for some quote I can’t place about having but not using your nuclear weapon. It’s a bit like being the toughest guy in school, if somebody has that reputation lots of benefits accrue….but don’t believe your own press and test the theory unnecessarily.

Putin never learned that simple school boy lesson and the pimply kid with glasses just punched him back in the nose, not fatal but it hurts.

Trump thinks he is the economic power bully and told all the kids what they have to do or else. But the kids suddenly lost their dislike of each other, coalesced in various ways….the Arabs tanked oil prices, China issued counter threats, the Europeans say they will respond and nobody caved. Suddenly it’s not clear the bullying tactics will work.

The lessons learned at school, often forgotten,are sometimes the most valuable….don’t overplay your hand. Like Putin Trump may still emerge somewhat intact, but the limits of his influence will be defined by the biggest stock market drop ever caused by a policy decision.

"Gentlemen! You can’t fight in here! This is the war room!”

This one is still so good.

Moz, I think he was trying to crash the markets.

My thesis is that is trying to maximum damage as quickly as possible, and bring inflation down rapidly.

I do think the markets were really too hot. Gosh, a dove's feather sticking out of Jerome's sleeve was enough to create positive momentum. I believe that Trump's thinking is probably that instead of trying to gradually cool things over years, he decided to pull the plaster off and creat plenty of short term pain.

I have a feeling that on the monthly chart this will amount to a V shaped recovery.

What do you think? Are we gonna see chunks being ripped out of inflation numbers in the coming months?

My thinking is extreme short term pain, turning on dime in the not too distant future into massive gains.

I honestly think that's Trump's plan.

My main evidence being the timing of his actions in relation to positive market news since his election.

I'm curious as to how you think this will bring down inflation considering pretty much every economist on the planet thinks putting this volume of tariffs and at such high rates on virtually everything coming into the US will increase inflation.

Also while inflation in the US has proven stubbornly resistant to dropping in the US, it present stands at 2.8% as opposed to the target rate of inflation of 2.0%. Sure it would preferable to hit the target rate, but does that 0.8% really warrant such drastic action that risks tanking the global economy?

Plum the Donald has been talking about tariffs for decades. I think you are right it’s a deliberate overshoot, not on the markets though, on tariffs. He wants quick results and he figures strong medicine will produce that.

But none of the opposing politicians Putin, Starmer, the European fakes can afford politically to cave. And Trump’s trying to talk down Powell on Friday suggests the market reaction shook him. I’m sure he doesn’t want to be associated with a market collapse.

That puts him in a tough position short term. But on a country by country basis the US which is less dependent on exports has a strong hand. He needs to pick off a few wins. Japan would be my first target…a US supporter and consequential. Vietnam doesn’t matter.

As for inflation Chat ballparks a 10% tariff at 0.7% inflation on a 70% cost pass through. A recession has dropped inflation by much more, eg during the financial crisis….but a mild recession probably just balances the tariifs.

If you look at surveys Trump is getting positive marks on immigration and the border….negative on the economy and that might have pushed him to act boldly. But this step looks like a foot shoot.

He needs a few more advisors who will push back….he had those last time. The maligned Barr and Pompeo served him very well. Too many yes men in the current set up. His broad instincts may be right but he needs mature advice.

I actually like the ‘at this height they may harpoon us’ quote from Strangelove. This weekend I’m watching the muscles from Brussels, 1980s van Damme, oddly satisfying.

But none of the opposing politicians Putin, Starmer, the European fakes can afford politically to cave.

LOL European fakes...you just can't help yourself.

European leaders didn't cause this predictable and oh so stupid self inflicted wound.

Oh sorry did I say fakes….I meant leaders.

Here’s a classic case:

BERLIN — Germany’s leaders aren’t concealing their preferred strategy on how to counter U.S. President Donald Trump’s “Liberation Day” tariffs: Retaliate hard enough to get Trump to come to his senses.

Economy Minister Robert Habeck called for a firm response to what he termed Trump’s “tariff mania.”

……

No mention of the fact that Germany ran $84 billion trade surplus in 2024 with the US. There was no attempt, zero, to address that imbalance until tariffs were mooted.

Now all of a sudden they are open to all sorts of constructive solutions?

Fakes who brought the world to it’s knees twice in the last 110 years taking the moral high ground

Starmer's plan is a sort of capitulation but a light one.

Basically Starmer is trying to negotiate a trade agreement with Trump but its not a full trade agreement which wouldn't be possible to be in any sort of short time frame, but a smaller one dealing more or less exclusively on technology which they have already been working on for a few months. This is achievable and its something but sides can sell to their public as a win.

Starmer will also likely pull the digital service tax on America tech as well. While the idea of not taxing rich American tech companies wouldn't sit well with the public, it doesn't bring in a lot of money and reducing tariffs to the US would save far more than losing the tax on digital services.

The UK won't be applying counter tariffs because as pretty much every economist points out that would hurt the UK more than the US, though if Trump continues to be unreasonable they have to apply them anyway for reasons of nation pride and to be seen to be standing up to bully. You can already say the US is being unreasonable as the US has a trade surplus with the UK and the UK is hitting its 2% defense spending pledge.

Chlorinated chicken is an absolute red line for the UK.

The EU may look to do what it did last time. At first target luxury US goods with tariffs, like Whisky and Harley Davidson etc, that are made in red states. The idea being to apply pressure on the Trump via his voter base but also to target stuff that won't really hurt their own economy. However should negotiation not yield results then they will go for more robust action, like go after US digital services. Something that would be very painful for both sides.

China has already announced the tariffs they are hitting America back with, with some reporting that Japan and Korea are to some extent willing to work with China in their response to the US, which if true would be a massive geo-political self inflicted own goal by the US.

No mention of the fact that Germany ran $84 billion trade surplus in 2024 with the US. There was no attempt, zero, to address that imbalance until tariffs were mooted.

Did Trump trying to do any sort of negotiating before he enacted his insane tariff plan?

Now all of a sudden they are open to all sorts of constructive solutions?

Fakes who brought the world to it’s knees twice in the last 110 years taking the moral high ground

This is the best you do, droning on about something that happen 80 years ago that has absolutely nothing to do with the present situation.

The US voted for this mess. The US can own it.

The irony of a nation that in the lifetime of people still alive had extermination camps talking about ‘coming to our senses’ doesn’t register.

The right German response was to own the surplus and suggest working towards a resolution….not drumming up a coalition of deniers. Nobody is saying Trump handled this well, but nor has Europe.

1. Why: Fewer imports = narrower deficit.
2. How:
3. Tariffs (short-term fix, risky long-term).
4. Domestic production incentives (reshoring).
5. Energy independence, local sourcing, etc.

……

That’s an item from the standard responses to a chronic trade deficit. I’d say 50 years plus is pretty chronic.

Sound.familiar? The other responses are promoting export industries eg high tech, devaluing the currency and fiscal tightening.

Let’s educate you a bit Anger so you can debate more intelligently on this topic I asked Chat a question, here’s the response. Read the response and the ask yourself if Europe has fulfilled it’s obligation to address the surplus:

Question

Is it generally understood that both the surplus and deficit countries should work towards lowering the deficit

Chat’s response

Yes — and that’s a really important and often overlooked point. In international economics, it’s generally understood among economists (and reflected in IMF policy guidance) that both surplus and deficit countries share responsibilityfor addressing global imbalances.

?? Why Both Sides Matter:

1. Tend to over-consume and under-save.
2. Often have strong currencies and low exports.
3. Solutions usually focus on reducing demand, boosting savings, and export competitiveness.

1. Tend to over-save and under-consume.
2. Often rely too heavily on exports for growth.
3. Solutions involve stimulating domestic demand, raising wages, or importing more.

?? International View — IMF & G20 Consensus:

1. The IMF has long pushed for “symmetrical adjustment”, meaning both surplus and deficit countries should act.
2. G20 communiqués often urge surplus nations to "re-balance growth" by stimulating domestic demand.

?? Why It Matters:

If only deficit countries adjust (e.g., via austerity or devaluation), global growth slows — and trade imbalances persist. Meanwhile, surplus countries benefit from demand created elsewhere without reciprocating.

?? John Maynard Keynes, back in the 1940s at Bretton Woods, even proposed penalties for surplus countries — not just deficit ones — to avoid this exact problem. It didn’t happen, but the idea still resonates.

The irony of a nation that in the lifetime of people still alive had extermination camps talking about ‘coming to our senses’ doesn’t register.

As if any member of the current German government had anything to with extermination camps. And you had a go at me for whataboutism. Pathetic stuff.

The right German response was to own the surplus and suggest working towards a resolution….not drumming up a coalition of deniers. Nobody is saying Trump handled this well, but nor has Europe

If the American's are of the belief that a trade deficit is bad thing something economist do not universally agree on and as many point there is benefits too it too, the correct response would be to negotiate with the countries you have a deficit with. Yes it takes time and patience and if feel your not getting anywhere in negotiations then you can gradually escalate in response. You do not throw up tariffs without giving the other side a chance to negotiate first, you do not make up completely bullshit tariff rates, the EU does not have a 39% tariff on American products, its more like 3%. You do not tariff countries you have a surplus with. You do not tariff countries that sell you stuff you can't produce yourself. Nor can you expect smaller economies to buy as much stuff as America with the richest consumers in the world can. And you not do that while a the same time your potentially compromising those countries securities or threaten to take over part of their territories, or have the nerve to lecture them on free speech etc.

You obviously haven’t read or more likely haven’t understood Chat’s summary of deficit reduction obligations.

As for my comments about your Whataboutism it was a joke about your own outing of this ‘awful’ debating tactic. Shall I mark all jokes with an asterisk?

No I understand alright the pro's and con's of a trade deficit/surpluses alright and why there was an argument for re-balancing of global trade. I'm also aware that no economist argued for re-balancing in a such an extreme manner.

America had been pre-warned that Trump was totally unsuitable to be President and it was taking an enormous risk in re-electing him. Now we all get to pay the price. This is on him and the people who elected and supported him and no amount of copium blame shifting is going change that, choices have consequences, America can own this mess. It's on them.

Diversion….has Europe or any European country made any attempt to improve the balance of trade. From my perspective they have simply let the good times roll and at the margin harassed American tech….and now they are angry because this Boorish man threatened to stop the gravy train.

Trump has handled this stupidly and ceded the moral high ground. But Europe for 80 years has relied on American protection and American markets. Their anger rings false. Would Germany be together today but for US support, would Europe even be free or communist?

Yes Trump is infuriating, but he only has support because he has a real point.

Diversion….has Europe or any European country made any attempt to improve the balance of trade.

Do the US make any attempt to suppress consumer demand?

Diversion eh, well Europe didn't elect Trump, the US did. Own it.

From my perspective they have simply let the good times roll and at the margin harassed American tech….and now they are angry because this Boorish man threatened to stop the gravy train.

"America is being ripped of" they scream!

"Why?" we ask

"Because the bastards keep selling us stuff we want to buy" they yell.

The whole world is angry because of how ridiculously unreasonable Trump is being and he's about to stop the gravy train for everyone, including the US.

Trump has handled this stupidly and ceded the moral high ground. But Europe for 80 years has relied on American protection and American markets. Their anger rings false.

Even if it's true about American protection (debatable, now that Europe is genuinely under threat the US couldn't throw up the white flag quick enough) and American markets, that doesn't give the US a right to try to blackmail us. It doesn't give them the right to compromise our security.

Yes Trump is infuriating, but he only has support because he has a real point.

Trump has partial real point that has he completely distorted and exaggerated that it bears little resemblance to reality and his proposed cure will just make things worse for everyone.

Your usual anti USA rant. The point is the world is living with huge US budget and trade deficits. The US debt is piling up at an alarming date, which threatens the whole global trade set up. These deficits have to be addressed.

Trump started this off on the wrong foot by playing to his base. But the European response, some countries excepted, has been similarly irresponsible. An honest response would at a minimum recognize the problem and the mutual responsibility to resolve it…..for the long term good of the global economy.

But this helps all the woke European politicians battling challenges from the right….so they doubled down in their rhetoric. Trump should have foreseen that. But many people are poorer because of the childish attitudes on both sides. It’s fine if it’s just the rich some may say, but this thing could rip through the whole world economy, destroying jobs.

Somebody has to be an adult and soon.

Trump started this off on the wrong foot by playing to his base. But the European response, some countries excepted, has been similarly irresponsible. An honest response would at a minimum recognize the problem and the mutual responsibility to resolve it…..for the long term good of the global economy.

Similar irresponsible...such bollocks. Which countries? Europe outside of the UK hasn't even responded yet. It's actually carefully considering its response and may opt for a moderated and targeted response on luxury good at first before bringing out the big guns, it probably will take some time for it to debate it, then vote on and then another week or so before implement. There not going use some crazy ass formula that comes with absolutely batshit insane tariff rates with just two days notice . At the same time the EU has said its leaving the door open to negotiations. But how can you serious negotiations when the numbers coming from the American side make zero sense.

An honest response. Well an honest response would be to tell the US, it's blackmail and its Mafia Don boss to go f**k off.

But this helps all the woke European politicians battling challenges from the right….so they doubled down in their rhetoric.

Woke politicians, FFS man the absolute desperation. Trump if he keeps going like this will single handily kill the European right for decades. Hilariously he seems to have singly handily cost the Canadian right an hetero certain landslide election victory.

But many people are poorer because of the childish attitudes on both sides. It’s fine if it’s just the rich some may say, but this thing could rip through the whole world economy, destroying jobs.

Somebody has to be an adult and soon.

LOL, you were warned. America voted for this. Don't try to blame anyone else for this shitshow. Own it.

’This is an attack on a trade order that has created prosperity all over the globe, a trade order that is essentially the result of American efforts," Scholz said, a day after US President Donald Trump unveiled the wide-ranging duties on friends and foes alike.

Echoing comments by the EU chief, Scholz said "we are ready for talks with the American government" to find a solution but stressed that Europe would "respond decisively, strongly and appropriately" if negotiations fail.

Economy Minister Robert Habeck suggested that the bloc could go after American tech titans by hitting them with a tax, insisting that "everything is on the table" as the EU mulls its response.

"The big tech companies have an incredible dominance in Europe and are largely exempt from European taxes," he told a press conference.

France earlier said the EU plans to "attack online services" in response to the tariffs.

…….

Understandable but not constructive. As for me owning Trump…nope I was for DeSantis or Nikki Haley.

At the end of the day, the US will get some of what it wants, but if it becomes contentious the collateral damage particularly in Europe and in tax haven Ireland which is peculiarly dependent on US goodwill, could be significant.

As for me owning Trump…nope I was for DeSantis or Nikki Haley.

Wasssup .......... Trumpanzee looking at exiting the Maga-batcave ?

Stav is just annoyed because Europe couldn't keep up with the US, despite being at a trade advantage. What's more annoying for the EUs is that they love looking down their noses at the Americans. Now that things will be more evened out, it'll be even more difficult to pretend they so much smarter than their American friends.

And Stav, if you don't understand that market uncertainty reduces inflation, then I'm not gonna explain it to you. I'll simply provide this...

Usually;

Stock market down ? Economic slowdown ? Inflation down.

The Fed have pretty much held steady this year. So while one would normally consider monetary policy, the Fed's "neutral" position right now is gonna allow for Trumps approach to take effect and for inflation to drop to where they want it very quickly.

It really can't be simplified for you any more than that.

The moment inflation drops to where it should, the Fed can move out of the middle ground between tightening and loosening, and actually loosen.

Buy the fear or regret your inaction by next year this time.

Let's have a look at the next lot of numbers say and then consult with your "economic experts" again. My guess they'll be opining on how lucky Trump was.

Well, to properly lower prices on household goods, deflation is needed, but that opens a whole new can of worms.

Understandable but not constructive. As for me owning Trump…nope I was for DeSantis or Nikki Haley.

Understandable and completely reasonable. Scholz said its ready to talk to the US but has options to fight back should negotiations fail, a position shared by the EU.

Europe so far has been calm and measured in its response. As much as you might want there to be there isn't any sort of equivalence in their response to Trump's batshit insane plane.

So the EU is said its willing to talk, what's Trumps response?

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/markets/trump-not-interested-in-tariff-negotiations-with-europe-unless-they-pay-lot-of-money-12987053.html

You might have preferred DeSantis or Haley but it's pretty clear you would probably have picked Trump over any Democratic candidate despite the warnings that were there and you gave him a pass when he won the election. Something along the lines that America's energy and positivity had shot up etc. If you want to criticize him now, fine do so, just stop trying to shift the blame for his madness elsewhere.

At the end of the day, the US will get some of what it wants, but if it becomes contentious the collateral damage particularly in Europe and in tax haven Ireland which is peculiarly dependent on US goodwill, could be significant.

Well this is largely true, the US will get some of what it wants. Some countries will fold, some manufacturing jobs will return but economically everyone including the US will be worse off and in geo-political terms the US will find it self in a far less dominate position that it was, with far fewer friends and less influence around the world. It's never going get manufacturing back to anywhere near the level it used to be at. Projections for Ireland are pretty bad if Trump goes after us, something like 50,000-80,000 jobs either lost or not created and up to a 3.7% hit to GDP over 5-7 years. We are waiting to see if the pharam industry gets tariffed, so far it hasn't and Ireland is opposed to hitting back on US digital services, but our response will be part of whatever the EU comes up with. We lose jobs, American's get to enjoy higher drug prices. Wonderful, everyone's a winner.

Stav is just annoyed because Europe couldn't keep up with the US, despite being at a trade advantage. What's more annoying for the EUs is that they love looking down their noses at the Americans. Now that things will be more evened out, it'll be even more difficult to pretend they so much smarter than their American friends.

I couldn't care less if the American's are richer than European. There is more to life than just money, maybe American's and people like you will figure that out some day. We do look down our noses at the more boorish flag waving ignorant American's who constantly have to boast that the US is the best at everything.

Oh things will be more evened out alright, just less to America's advantage. But yeah American's are so smart, we bow down to the sheer genius that is tariffing f**king penguins.

Let's have a look at the next lot of numbers say and then consult with your "economic experts" again. My guess they'll be opining on how lucky Trump was.

Well I guess we will see over the coming months.

Well, to properly lower prices on household goods, deflation is needed, but that opens a whole new can of worms.

Yeah deflation is arguably worse. Ask the Japanese on that one.

"We do look down our noses at the more boorish flag waving ignorant American's who constantly have to boast that the US is the best at everything."

Probably the same way that I look down my nose at the Irish that can't wait to tell you they like a drink and box.

"I couldn't care less if the American's are richer than European. There is more to life than just money, maybe American's and people like you will figure that out some day."

Go on, tell me about how and why I love money so much and think there's nothing more to life. I can't wait to hear this.

My point wasn't that they're richer, it was that they're more productive. See Google, Apple, Space X....on and on. The Yanks aren't richer for the sake of being richer. They're richer as a consequence of making better stuff.

Probably the same way that I look down my nose at the Irish that can't wait to tell you they like a drink and box.

LOL box, WTF. Do you keep running into the Irish traveler community or something?

Go on, tell me about how and why I love money so much and think there's nothing more to life. I can't wait to hear this.

After you tell me I would be annoyed at America for leaving Europe behind economically. I can't wait to hear this.

My point wasn't that they're richer, it was that they're more productive. See Google, Apple, Space X....on and on. The Yanks aren't richer for the sake of being richer. They're richer as a consequence of making better stuff.

My point is that European's have a better quality of life. See health service outcomes, life expectancy, child mortality rate, social welfare backup, better work life balance, less crime, work less hours and better museums :) and on and on.

The irony of saying the Yanks make better stuff. They don't that's the problem, and it's part of the reason why the yank sell less to us than we to them. Their cars are not suited for European roads, have higher failure rates, consume too much gas. US food don't meet European safety standards etc.

But who brought the car to the masses…Henry Ford, who invented the airplane…the Wright Brothers, who brought us modern tech….Silicon Valley…..who dominates post war art, Rothko et al.

Europe has an unparalleled history but it’s not the driving force in the world any more. As for the great lifestyle, for many years I simultaneously had places London, Cape Town and the States. I loved my time in London, but to say the gray people sloping off to work, whose big moment in the week was watching Arsenal play Everton have a better life….is utter nonsense.

Europe is a great museum, I saw Guernica last summer in Madrid, moving. But the MOMA is as great a collection of modern art as exists…have you ever visited it, or the spent much time in the States. You sound incredibly ignorant.

"You sound incredibly ignorant"

I hate to be the one to break this to you, Moffie, but Stav sounds a lot smarter than you.

He also sounds a lot more worldly, a lot more cultured and he seems to be a much nicer person.

You sound like a spiteful, spoilt child.

The US don't make better stuff?

The top 10 biggest companies in the world beg to differ. I guess it's not good stuff that they make...they're just better at marketing, right?

Wasn't the Ford focus pretty popular in Europe? And I know in South Africa the most purchased vehicles are Toyota(Japan) and Ford(US). Please, unless you've ever pulled 3000kgs up a steep mountain pass with a 3L Ford, just don't comment.

In the end, the mud island gang are far too cynical to compete. Europe gave in to the wage slave mentality while the Yanks still want to take it on and push the limits.

Hey, bro...where's your Starlink? Haha

The majority of innovation today is US or Asian. Europe lean far too heavily on the past and their jealousy is palpable.

I'd be jealous too.

But who brought the car to the masses…Henry Ford, who invented the airplane…the Wright Brothers, who brought us modern tech….Silicon Valley…..who dominates post war art, Rothko et al.

I'm not getting into a pissing competition to who invented what, we would be here all week and its not relevant to the topic.

Europe has an unparalleled history but it’s not the driving force in the world any more. As for the great lifestyle, for many years I simultaneously had places London, Cape Town and the States. I loved my time in London, but to say the gray people sloping off to work, whose big moment in the week was watching Arsenal play Everton have a better life….is utter nonsense.

https://www.hrdive.com/news/americans-work-more-and-are-less-happy-than-europeans/731480/

What so watching some collage football game in America is any better? One's not any better than the other, just different groups of people have different in different parts of both the US and Europe have different interests and activities. You might love golf, I have zero interest in it, doesn't make one person's life better or worse than the others.

Europe is a great museum, I saw Guernica last summer in Madrid, moving. But the MOMA is as great a collection of modern art as exists…have you ever visited it, or the spent much time in the States. You sound incredibly ignorant.

I was joking about the museums, referring to the jibes that have been thrown at Europe. Been to Los Angelas, San Diego, Miami twice, Chicago twice, Boston, Martha's Vineyard and Las Vegas.

Also been too Puerto Rico and the American Virgin Islands which are territories of the US.

The US don't make better stuff?

The top 10 biggest companies in the world beg to differ. I guess it's not good stuff that they make...they're just better at marketing, right?

You mean this lot. Do you see the issue here. Those that sell physical products don't make the products in America. Apple don't make iPhone's in America, Nvidia don't make GPU's in the US. Microsoft, Google, Meta sell services, not physical products. Europe want's these services and that's why American has a trade surplus in services. Amazon, doesn't make anything, it sells other people products and had regional operations across the world. If I buy from Amazon, the product is shipped from the EU.

So yes America invents shit, it doesn't actually build physical things Europe wants to buy in great numbers. You could try bringing iPhone production back to the US but it would increase the price of production so much, iPhone sales would plummet.

Wasn't the Ford focus pretty popular in Europe? And I know in South Africa the most purchased vehicles are Toyota(Japan) and Ford(US). Please, unless you've ever pulled 3000kgs up a steep mountain pass with a 3L Ford, just don't comment.

Ford has about 3.3% market share in the EU+UK+EFTA area.

You see here's the thing about Europe, we generally don't need to pull 3000kgs up a steep mountain pass. Different markets have different needs, have you ever wondered why European freight trucks are smaller in dimension in with the flat nose and more maneuverable than their American counterparts.

In the end, the mud island gang are far too cynical to compete. Europe gave in to the wage slave mentality while the Yanks still want to take it on and push the limits.

Slave wages, LOL. Well if I'm on slave wages, so is the average American but they are not getting 45 days paid leave in the year. Lets not even talk about the minimum wage.

Hey, bro...where's your Starlink? Haha

Here it is bro. Haha

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutelsat

The majority of innovation today is US or Asian. Europe lean far too heavily on the past and their jealousy is palpable.

I'd be jealous too.

Europeans just laugh at this conceit that America is the best at everything and everyone wants to be them or be like them. These snide remarks we get about Europe from the conservative side of America as I said come across as insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, like a little kid brother desperately trying to show he's surpassed his big brother.

"Please, unless you've ever pulled 3000kgs up a steep mountain pass with a 3L Ford, just don't comment."

Well, ButtPlug, even though I could punch so many holes through your flimsy and infantile little arguments, I won't . . . because I've never driven a specific vehicle under specific conditions . . . so as per your request, I'll keep my powder dry.

I have however co-driven my son-in-law's Ford Ranger through a 4WD course, which was great fun . . . but I don't recall us ever pulling 3000kgs up a mountain pass . . . although I'm pretty sure I've taken a Ford to greater limits than you ever have.

Lol...

I'm sure you have Rooi. I'm not a car guy.

Through, I have towed 3 tons up the Sani Pass with a Ford Ranger, and it was so effortless that I constantly had to remind myself that I was towing that much weight. Ford won my respect that day because achieving that with a 2.8L engine is something very special in my book.

Also, Ford Mustang...

The point is, the Yanks do make some cool shit. Plenty of it. Lol Europe doesn't even have a gaming console they can call their own! I like Europe but they need to chill and keep resting on their laurels, quietly.

Stav, please look up the term "wage slave"...it doesn't mean working for slave wages, you plonker(literally the worst thing I've ever called you, surprisingly).

Also, by boxing i didn't mean actually boxing, "a drink and box" means get drunk and fight. For heaven's sake man, you're not that old! Surely you can pick up when a man is using some slang.

Damn, look at this list...

No wonder old Stav is more green with envy than he is from being Irish haha

Draad, wat Lol jy?

"America as I said come across as insecurity and feelings of inadequacy, like a little kid brother desperately trying to show he's surpassed his big brother."

A little kid brother that is better looking, wealthier and vastly stronger...

Sooo annoying.

Especially with all those Olympic Gold Medals.

Gotta hate it!

Actually ButtPlug, the USA are under-achievers when it comes to per capita Olympic medals which is a far more relevant statistic.

The Bahamas, Hungary and the Scandinavian countries are the over-achievers . . . and New Zealand.

California alone has 5 times the poulation of Ireland yet they "compete" against small-to-medium countries like Ireland as just one of fifty states.

California: 39,431,263?StatsAmerica+3FRED+3Encyclopedia Britannica+3

Texas: 31,290,831?Wikipedia+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2StatsAmerica+2

Florida: 23,372,215?Wikipedia+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2StatsAmerica+2

New York: 19,867,248?Wikipedia+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2StatsAmerica+2

Pennsylvania: 13,078,751?Data Pandas+3Encyclopedia Britannica+3StatsAmerica+3

Illinois: 12,710,158?Wikipedia+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2StatsAmerica+2

Ohio: 11,883,304?Wikipedia+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2StatsAmerica+2

Georgia: 11,180,878?StatsAmerica+2Encyclopedia Britannica+2Wikipedia+2

North Carolina: 11,046,024?New York Post+2StatsAmerica+2Wikipedia+2

Michigan: 10,140,459?StatsAmerica+1Wikipedia+1

New Jersey: 9,500,851?StatsAmerica+1Wikipedia+1

Virginia: 8,811,195?StatsAmerica+1Wikipedia+1

Washington: 7,958,180?StatsAmerica+1Wikipedia+1

Arizona: 7,582,384?FRED+2StatsAmerica+2Wikipedia+2

Tennessee: 7,227,750?StatsAmerica+1Wikipedia+1

Massachusetts: 7,136,171?Wikipedia

Indiana: 6,924,275?Wikipedia

Missouri: 6,263,220?Wikipedia

Maryland: 6,245,466?Wikipedia

Colorado: 5,957,493?FRED+1Wikipedia+1

Wisconsin: 5,793,151?Wikipedia

Minnesota: 5,478,831?Wikipedia

South Carolina: 5,157,699?Wikipedia

Alabama: 4,597,740?Wikipedia

Louisiana: 4,588,372?Wikipedia

Kentucky: 4,272,371?

Oregon: 4,095,393?Wikipedia

Oklahoma: 3,675,069?Wikipedia

Connecticut: 3,503,613?Wikipedia

Utah: 3,267,467?Wikipedia

Iowa: 3,241,488?Wikipedia

Nevada: 3,203,295?

Arkansas: 3,088,354?Wikipedia+1FRED+1

Mississippi: 2,970,606?Wikipedia

Kansas: 2,943,045?Wikipedia

New Mexico: 2,109,093?

Nebraska: 1,967,923?

Idaho: 1,939,033?

West Virginia: 1,755,591?

Hawaii: 1,474,265?

New Hampshire: 1,402,957?

Maine: 1,354,522?

Montana: 1,122,867?

Rhode Island: 1,095,962?

Delaware: 1,003,384?

South Dakota: 923,484?

North Dakota: 796,568?Wikipedia

Alaska: 740,133?FRED+1Wikipedia+1

Vermont: 648,493?Wikipedia

Wyoming: 587,618?Wikipedia

. . . and then we get ignorant, flag-waving Trumpanzees like you chanting "USA, USA . . . " every four years at the Olympic Games.

They should compete as states . . . along with China and India who should compete as provinces/states.

But you keep beating your chest and grunting about the USA being the best . . . smaller countries like Hungary, Finland and New Zealand have far more impressive Olympic records.

Include Winter Olympics and the Scandinavian countries are untouchable.

Drinksbreak you are so ineffably stupid. Oh okay….per capita. Well how much do we handicap ourselves with our 63 million when we play NZ with it’s 5 million. When we won the WC against a 14 man NZ team by having a better kicker, did you mention NZ has less than 10% of our population.

No you beat your fat flabby chest and tried to forget your attack on Rasmus before the final.

But clearly by your calculus NZ is by far the greatest rugby nation unless it’s Fiji.

ROFL!