Timothy Snyder Why should we understand the history of Ukraine ?

ouMaaik ffs. vat note

Your historian is confused. The generous terms are reserved for the victors. The losers tend to get what the Germans got in 1918 at Versailles. He’s right that the Ukranian resistance is up there, possibly above the Battle of Britain. But that’s not going to help if they eventually exhaust their resources.

Some interesting history, a little over interpreted I suspect

Right now it looks academic, Putin seems completely disinterested in saving lives

Funny how Putin is supposedly fighting for the salvation of the ethnic Russians in Ukraine, but he's destroying the area where they live...some kind of liberation...

This I thought would deal with the actual history of Ukraine - but in many cases it is garbage and not strict basis in history. There actual never was a country namedf Ukraine in existence - but it was controlled by a variety of instances mostly based on what actually led to what today is Ukraine and human settlements. On the whole it must be bone ibn mind that various empires comtrolled Ukraine for most of known and proven history, The main impact came from what was related to Greece and goes back to the Eastern Roman Empire and even to the time before the arising of the Roman Empire,

Accordig to Greek history there were a trading post somewhere on the Black Sea called Odessa - bt to state that it iss where the present Odessa is was never proven. What is factual was that most of what was eastern kraine and Crimea was never part of what Ukraine is at present was influenced by what happened as early as 450 AC when the Huns overran the whole of what was and is Ukraine - where the Huns originated from nobody knows - very little of the Huns was actually recorded - but they were likely from Mongolia or Central Asia followed by the Bulgars and the Golden Horde under Kublai Khan through many centuries.

But lets go back to the Ancient Greeks and Phoenicians who established trading posts on the Black Sea one of which was called Odessa recorded in Greek history. Catherine the Great was much interested in Greek history decided to establish a number of cities in Ukraine of which Odessa was one. So lets also bear in mind that Kiev was such a trading post created .by the Eastern Roman Empire and the Scandinavians after the Huns disappeared from the scene in around 500 AC. Russians was also from Scandinavia with people moving from that area into what is today Russia in the period through millinea and by 840 Russia was ruled by tribal Chiefs which were involved in constant Civil Wars. In and around 840 the Scandinavians basically settled in what became know as Novgorod invited Rurik - a Scandinavian to take over ruling of Novgorod - which orginally was settled in that area/

To the South the area calle Byelo was settled by Germanic tribes that moved in with the Scandinavians who settle to the North. Although the Rusians claime that Rurik originally ruled the Novgorod area the settlemetn Rurik found as his capital was to the south outside of the present ciry of Novgorod, Rurik's son - bearing in mind rade with the hen Eastern Roman Empire wih Constantinople decide to move south and formed hat was then known as KievanRus with descendants of Rurik ruled in other principalities of Kievan Rus, That situation lasted until 1240 when the Mongol Golden Horde captured and destroyed Kiev totally. Some claime the residents were all killed by the Mongols under Timor - others claimed the Kievans became slaves of the Golden Hoard which broke up into factions themselves, The Mongols never captured the northern part of what was then part of today's European Russia and afte destrcution of Kiev remaine infleced by the Constntinople empire which was mainly Greek influence and what was called Bizantium became the capital of he Roman Empire in 318 when Constantine moved the capotal from Rome - which gradually deteriorated and utimately was captured by the Goths in 472 when ffectively the Western Empire collapsed - while he Eastern Empire lasted until 1452 the Ottomanss - also from the Balkans in alliance with the Turks attacked and captured Constatinople and enamed it to Istanbul that became the capita; of the Ottoman Empire. However, in the period Kiev was established the area becme Christians and the main religion was based on the Greek Orthodox Church - the off spring of which was found to include Greece, Georgia and Armenia and Serbia.

Being part of the trading post re-established after destruction by Timor in 1240 and disintegration of the Golden Horde Kiev again became the headquarters of the Greek Orthodox Church until 1340 when the Church feeling afraid of being recaptured by the Mongol Golden Horde moved ts headquarters to Muscovy - which was a minor principality at the time and the real captial was of hat was remaning wa Vladimir became an independent State nder the patronage of the Golden Horde centered in Kazan and Astrahan. This situation lasted until 1380 when the Golden Horde attacked Muscovy - whose rule art the ime was Dmitry Doskoy defeated the Kazan Golden Horde at the battle of Kulikpvski o the River Don, He allied hismelf with the other Rurikid principalities and Muscovy - which terrtory covered 615 square kilometers and Dmitry after the battle made peace with teh Kazan Golden Horde to which a annual tribute was paid by all Ruian priciplalities from Kharkov in the South northwards, Kiev and he area around it became part of the Polish kingdom - which ruled Lithuania and part of Russia inclusive of Smolensk. It was the descendents of Dmitry who solidifie their rule over what is today Russia. The period included Ivan the Terrible who expanded Russia by capturing Siberia also ruled by clans in the past. In any event after Theodor - the last sirving sone of Ivan the Terrible died childless in 1598 the Time of Troubles the Poles captured Moscow and the Rssa prices elected Michael Romanov as Czar in 1513 - which resulted in the Poles being driven out of Russia.

At the time the Sutinate of the Crimea ruled as allies of the Ottomans - and the emaining residents of what is today Eastern Ukraine was part of the Sultinate who used the residents as slaves - so there were no real setlements in the area and people moved to avoid capture by the Crimea army and was largely depopulated. Western Ukraine remained part of Poland until 1667 when Kiev was captured by the Rusians - the rest of WesternUraine being ruled by the Habsburg empire. However - the main language spoken at the time of the Kiev area was Polish and the present Ukraine language is actually a dialect of Polish developed ovr the period since 1667. When Ptemkin captured what is today Eastern Ukraine from the Crimeans in 1776 Catherine the Great caused the establisment of a nuber of cities in the area captured from the Crimean Sultinate - amongst which were Odessa, Kherson, Donetsk and Mariopol. The new area conquered by Potemkin was resettled by people from Russia added to by people from Greece and from the rest of the Balkan countries, with the Russian population making up the main population group in the said area. Anoher inereting development was that progroms against Jews were not allowed in the area around Odessa and many Jews move from teh rest of Russia into the Odessa area where he main language spoken ewas influenced by Hebrew and is still the case at present and Zelesnsky came from the Jewish settled in the 19th century in the Odessa area.

The sitation changed in 1919 when the Communists captured the Western Part of what is today Ukraine and established a USSR regime in Kiev. The population fo the Western Ukraine were murdered by Stalin with the food shortages of food b the Staliist regime through starvation. This applied to the Socialist Reublc and even Russians living in the area of Es ten Ukraine suffered the same fate - for instance Gorbachov's brothers died as a result of that state-sponsored starvastion. It is no surprise that when Germany invaded the USR in 1941 many residents of Ukraine welcomed the Germans as liberators anda llied thesmelves with the Germans and amgst them were about 200 000 people who fought against the Russians on the side of the Germans under the leadership of Bandera - whose amin cener of opeation was from a concentration camp in Lovosk who then was part of Poland - but at presen is part of Western Ukraine.

Stalin was a cruel bastard who in 1941 moved the whole Tartar population from the Crimea (3 600 000 people) tp slave camps in Siberia and the polar areas in Northern Rusia nea the White Sea and he did similarly so with the recaptured Ukraine after departure of the ggermans from Ukraine in 1944 and approximately 6 milion rainians suffered the sam fate as the Tartars. To this day the Russians do not Trust the Ukraine popultion - but after the death of Stalin the Coomunist Partya llowed the Tartars and Ukrainians in Siberian slave camps to return to the Crimea and Ukraine. Distrust of the Ukrainians caused the Communists to include Kharkov, Odessa and a lage part of what was never patt of even the Soviet Republic of Ukraine to become part of the new Soviet Repblic of Ukraine in 1953. The so-alled USSR was effectively controlled from Moscow and what happened in 1953 neve effected the Government from Moscow,

When the Communist regime fell in Russia it was decided by Yeltsin that a umber of new independent states was to be established. Constitutions were to be adopted in the new States which ganteed the human rights of all residents in thee new independent countries to be aproved by referendums in the new Indepedent States - one of which was Ukraine. The Rusians in Uraine was sck and ired of Commuist rule and since heir human rights were respected and protected in the Ukraine constitution, In some states like in the Baltic States the switch to democratic governance worked out - in others it did not. It lead to the previous Communists leaders remaining in pwer, Charge and in others wars amongst themselves and Russia broke out - while in others egime change were through coups and revolts caused regime change..

In Ukraine the Government became totally corrupt and the country was the most corrupt country in Europe. The situation was that in a separte agreement in 1989 between Gorbachov and the Bush Government it was agreed that the German unification would eb allowed to happen - but NATO expansion would not be allowed to happen.to countries east of Germany, This was even uder the Soviet Regime applied to Austria as well and from 1955 to date Austria is not part of NATO. In 1997 Clinton tried to change the situation as to NATO expansion in Europe caused Clintons Secretary fo efense hreatened to resign if it happens. Most of the cebntrl Europe countries became members of NATO the Russians did nothing abot it - bar objecing to the altic countries bcomig memebrs.

However, in Ukraine the situation n kraine ebcame destructive when in coup in Kiev a new Government was installed in Kiev and the Ukraine constitution was dscarded. In the case of Eatern Ukraine a civil war broke out i Eastern kraine and in the Crimea who had internal self-Government - the Crimean Parliament held a referendum as to the future of the Crimea. The Russan component of the Crimea populaion was 85% Russian speakers and 10% Tartars who voted to appl to the Russian Federation to become part of Russia - 94,5% of the population. Effectively the Crimea was in terms of the 1991 Constitution being te main center o teh Russian fleet and their were no soldiers of the Ukraine Governent stationed in the Crimea and no invation of the Crema by teh Russians in the Crimea and no involvement of the Crimea in the Civil War that started in 2014.

In 2015 a agrement between Ukraine and the eebls in Eastern Ukraine was signeed in Minsk - led by Germany and France to end the civil war and it was recognized that the Crimea was not part of Ukraine anymore. The invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022 the Turkish Gvernment intervened in an effort to stop the War, A conference was convened in Istanbul in Aoril 2022 and the conditon fo the Ukraine Government was that the Russian Invasion force theatening Kiev was to be withdrawn from the Ukraine - which m fact happened. After difficult negotiations the Turkish Government announced that an agrement as imminent - which the US Government found unaccpetable and ordered the Ukraine Foreign Minster to leave Istanbul on the same day and not to initial any potential agreement. That ended the Trukish effort to stop the war in Ukraine. The Ukraine moved the army defending Kiev to Eastern Ukraine and the Russians moved their troops fro Byelo to Eastern Ukraine as well. That is where te main Ukraine War battle were fought since 1922.

Thefact about moving o children from areas in IUkraine under Russian control is true in part, The Rssian Government ordered the removal of 3,5 million woman and children from the war zone to safe places in Russia is a fact.. The women and children is not a pawn in reality the people removed from Ukraine will return if their safety is guaranteed. What in the above video is based on history is baloney, , It is all propaganda and never referred to any specific happenings n the area that later became part of actual history.was never mentioned neither were the impacts of other empires mentioned. Ukraine was part of a small component of Ukraine history and was used by the Mongol empires route into Europe which affected Europe for a near to a thousand years,during which the Western Rome empire collapsed as a result of invasion by what the Roman hsitorians descibe as barbarians.

So to say that Ukraine played a major part in European history is not true at all. It neve was really a regonized independent country until 1991. At best it as part of a number of empires ad countries through most of the time since the Greek empire under Alexander the Great - succeded by the Roman Empire and the Habsburg and Polish kindom and Russian Empires and the USSR. In that Ukraine was never in history a major historic component,

What happened in Ukraine is a less important compared to what happened in the other empires and countries all over the world, inclusive of the USA and oher countries part of the Commonwealth. It si a fact that history impact on culture of countries - but as a propaganda tool at present it is a total farce - wether used by Governments or anybody else.

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From Crimea to the Minsk agreements, from Syria to Chechnya, Putin has built his legacy on making up facts on the ground and daring the world to challenge them. Why would he stop now?

He won’t – not until he can no longer afford the lead to make the bullets. But Ukraine has demonstrated that it can hold its own. If the goal is to stop the bloodshed, the only way forward is to force Russia to face reality rather than manufacturing its own.

1. Olga Chyzh researches political violence and repressive regimes. She is an assistant professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Toronto

What I wrote about is true, You canot turn shit into facts and I listerned carefully. Uktaine never exosted as an independent country until 1991 - so to claim that Ukrkane was central to what happened in European history. The coty of Kiev was ree[atedly destroyed and rebuilt, over many centuries and Ukrainians held high positions even in Ipreial Russia. Examples - the Empress secretly married Count Razumovski - a Kossak hetman from the Ukraine area, He was the one in her circles that played a role in decisionmaking while she ruled in Russia fom 1740 to 1762. After hhe Empresses death - he refused to serve under Catherine the Great. She played a lot to save Ukraine from Muslim rle and by conquering the C imea and development of a numer of cities in Eastern and Nothern Ukraine and modenizing the then province of Ukraine.

Subsequent to that the Emproer had a Ukrainian as chairman of the Imrperal Govenment. He was assassnated when e tended a performaance in a theater in Kiev,

I'm sticking with Snyder ................. jy praat unmitigated shameful bollocks.

Let Snyder gives us facts - in the video he gave none. Ukraine was never being based on the so-called wanting by anybody, At best since 900 AD to 1240 Kiev was a trading post - and nothing else, It was a minor peg in food production - but also the way through which vafious tribes from central Asia and Mongolia entered Europe - not a major agricultural center providing food to Europe - it was noting bar a backward area like parts of Africa remains ar present, There were no stable population group settlled in Ukraine - large parts of Uraine was depopulated since it was an area where life was insecure for more than a thousand years, The fact is that when the Russans attack Kazzan Kazan in 1472 they freed 60 000 slaves that was caused to the slave market in Astrakhan far to the south of Kazan and it was closed down at the same time.

So where did te salves come from - largely from what today is Southern Russia and what is today Ukraine. The people were nomadic and for their safety never established permanent towns in the said area, It only was cities lke Kharkov that was 100% Russian and was developed as a safe area to live in. When the Russian Army defeated the Sultinate of the Crimea - who was a subsidiary of the Ottoman empire the slave trades in Russia and Ukraine stopped, They found the residents of Ukraine being small and the area largely depopulated,

Take for example the history of the Tolstoy family, According to Leo Tolstoy's own family history the family origined from an ancestor called Idris who moved with 3 000 followers the Chernogov from Germany after defeat of Timor - also called Timberlane - the king of the Golden Horde and settled in Chernogov and Kharkhov - with Indrus being te leader - who moved into the Ukraine area and became through to centuries imporany under Peter the Great, Against Ottoman tradition Suleimin The Magnificient married Roxelana who was captured a a slave in Ukraine and became a close confidant of the Caliph. She even wrote letters to the Polish King about issues pertaining to modern day Ukraine, The Ottomans captured what is today Hugary, Swrbia and all the balkan countriees. His Vizier was given to him as a slave hen he was a child and they ruled the Ottoman Empire until Suleiman had on the insurgence of Roxelana had him murdered, I give you this example iro of he level of insecurity of people llving in the area tht today is Ukraine, Eventually the Polish King ocupied kiev and an area not knon as Ukraine at the time and area became mostly settled by Poles and Ukrainian is a dialect of what today is the Polish language, The area remained part of Poland until 1668 when Kiev was captured by the Russians and the Polish residents remained and from heir the language of the Ukraine changed hrogh the centuries.

The fact is that what today is Eastern Ukraine had no towns and only a small nomadic population that moved regularly to avoid capture by the Crimean Tartars and sold as slaves, Poteki after 1776 started what is today cities called Donetsk, Kershov, Odessa and Mariapol in Easten Ukraine and moved people from Russia and the Balkan area - esentially Greeks, Bulgars and Serbs to populate the area - while the Nomads living there before 1776 became settled in new villages and towns in the area,

So the story about everybdy wanted the area that represents Ukraine wanted its "Black Earth" because of the agricultrurasl vaslue is total BS. The area that today is Ukraine was a conflict area - largely depopulated by the Muslims of the Crimea and the Ottoman empire as a source for slaves - and the Poles and Russians saw it as an area they need to control and not the Muslims who sed the area to invade and attack the Holy Roman Empire and larger parts of Europe inclusive of Russia and Poland, In 1532 the Ottman army attacked Vienna and the city did not fall - so the Ottomans attacked the city aai in 1582 and was defeated by the Army of the Holy Roman empire ad the Polish king, If Vienna fell most of Europe today would have been under Muslim control. It was only in the 1700 hundred that the HRH empire conquered Serbia and Hungary and established those countries as independent Countries. Before 1991 there was eve an independent Contry known as Ukrraine,

Now the above shows the real situation - not the BS in the above video.