Wow!!
He was losing the fight. One punch and that's all it took.
42 wins with 41 going by way of KO.
Time to unify the division.
Why the hell did Ortis circle to Wilder's right with his own left hand at shoulder height...on top of a flat left foot? Never mind the fact that he put his own back to the ropes. Madness.
Easy KO for potentially the best heavyweight of his generation.
Ortiz isn't known for his foot work. He was flat footed all fight long ... but then again, so was Wilder.
Ortiz fought the wrong fight tactically. He should have been in his face ... crowding him ... using his weight advantage to push him back ... coming in close, throwing short hooks and uppercuts to the body ... popping one or two over the top ... pressuring him ... backing him up against the ropes ... neutralizing his power.
Wilder generates his power from range. He has a superb jab and as we saw an incredible right cross. To add to that ... he had a substantial reach advantage. Fighting him from distance is simply looking for trouble.
Also, what's with the single punch punching. Boxing is about putting combinations together. Throwing a single punch and then bucking off isn't how you win fights.
Ortiz's trainer needs to be taken to task. He's a moron and cost Ortiz the fight.
Wilder relies completely on knocking his opponent out. He was easily 4 points behind by the 7th and can thank his lucky stars that Ortiz has a fool in his corner.
Wilder is lazy and doesn't want to put in the work. It could come back to haunt him someday.
Wilder is far from lazy.
Have a look at all the stuff he's doing to improve.
Including punching for hours on end under water(scuba gear) to control his breathing and increase his hand speed.
Yes he is.
We aren't on the same page here.
You think that training is the be all and end all of a fighters life. All that counts for nothing in the end if he doesn't take it into the ring.
He sits back and waits for an opening, so that he can end it all with one straight right. In other words, he doesn't work the fight. He's lazy.
What happens if someone takes him the distance? What happens if that opening never comes?
Training under water does nothing to improve hand speed. You take what you are born with into the ring ... into life. You can develop the gifts you've received in birth but there is a limit to everything. By no means can you create any additional gifts by some silly notion like punching for hours under water. There is no miracle cure. Hard work is all that counts in the end ... no matter how talented you are.
Controlling you breathing in a fight benefits you how? If you haven't done the road work you'll still run out of puff, no matter how much control you have over your breathing.
What you put in you get out ... just make sure you use what you've put in or it will all be a waste in the end.
Yes they were both flat footed. But as a southpaw, Ortiz should be well accustomed to the extra movement required when moving towards an opponents stronger side. That's why movement patterns exist. Any one of his even amateur range/height changers there would have done the trick. And he should have done it every single time he moved left.
Point is, moving left into Wilder's power zone like that, with a halfarsed guard, and not changing height at all...it looked amateur and Wilder had ample time to land that straight.
Controlling your breathing is extremely important. To the point where I'll just say...look it up.
Nobody said that you don't need road work. But guess what coach keeps telling you as you run? Five steps - breathe in - five steps - breathe out. Because fitness without good breath control is pointless.
Hand speed and power are a gift. R esistance training increases both. Watch Wilder's earlier fights and compare his speed. He's gotten faster and faster. This is also not new.
Anyway, I like Wilder. Have been following him for years now. He's the Glen McGrath of boxing. Started late but will go down as a great.
Lazy and efficient are not the same thing. You're mistaking the two.
Your comments make me think of a colleague who inherited a little money and a few odds and ends ... one of which being a beautiful ornament ... a dragon, the size of a small cat.
She came to work with it and told us all that she would not have it in her house, as it had absorbed a lot of negative energy over the years. It needed to be cleansed ... purified ... by the Sun ... and so she found a nice sunny spot in the garden and left it there for the day.
I couldn't resist the temptation and so explained to her that the only change to the dragon was that it spent it's day in the bright sunshine ... nothing more.
She still refuses to speak to me.
Moving a little left played it's part in Ortiz's demise ... but it wasn't the only issue. He didn't protect himself all fight long. He slipped the dreaded punch a few times and felt safe enough due to Wilder's non existent work rate. He's lazy you see. If you watched the fight you would have seen that.
Changing heights ... ??? Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!! This is a 234lbs, 40 year old, heavyweight ... not a 25 year old featherweight. There is a difference you know. Not everyone can bob and weave like a young Tyson. Even he gave that up when age stepped in.
There are many different ways to fight your opponent and most of them should be planned in advance. It's called a game plan. Look it up. Not everything has to go by the book.
Oh I see ... you're trying to be clever.
Ok!
What?? Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaa!! Have you ever done any roadwork before? Have you ever run at all? I doubt you'll manage 100m ... being a weed smoker and all.
You want to hold your breath for 5 seconds ... while running ... before expelling it ... and then only take another after an additional 5 seconds has passed? That in effect is a breath every 10 seconds ... 6 breaths per minute. Have you lost your mind? You have a coach that instructs you to breath like that ... and ... and ... you're paying him good money for this advice?
Well ... hate to tell you this but you are being ripped off. I would demand my money back if I were you. No wonder you hate running. I would too.
It's all about finding a rhythm ... about opening the passage way ... like a carburetor ... holding your head in such a way that your breathing isn't hindered. The air that you breath is your fuel source. There is no way in hell that you'll even manage 1km with a breath every 10 seconds.
Don't believe me ... go ahead ... give it a try. I dare you. Let me know what flowers you want sent to your wake.
Improving your fitness level, improves your breathing ... not the other way round. You really are clueless.
Resistance training improves strength ... not speed. Weight training is one form of resistance training. It does nothing for your speed. Nothing whatsoever. Did your "coach" tell you that too?
Speed comes from timing ... from anticipating your opponents next move ... that's the point of the speedball ... of the pearball. You do know what a pearball is ... right? Timing also helps you with your accuracy as well as the power of every delivered punch.
The man who hits a golf ball the furthest isn't necessary the strongest. I'm willing to bet though that he has fantastic timing.
Punching with dumbbells doesn't improve you speed either. The only benefit to that is that it strengthens your anterior deltoid. Helps you lift heavier straight arm front raises.
No ... I know what lazy is when I see it. Wilder ... as good and as exciting as he is ... is lazy.
He's gifted with an amazing right hand ... and he relies on it completely.
A proper game plan will see him undone if he sticks to his lazy ways.
All I take from this is that you take one step per second.
Do you know the difference between animals and humans as far as breath is concerned?
A dog takes a breath for each step rotation. Most mammals do.
Humans don't. We take multiple steps per breath.
And its that breath control which allowed us to run animals down over days. It's the key to our superior stamina.
It's impossible to have any kind of debate with you without your ugly little man syndrome coming through.
I'll leave it there.
Wilder was incredibly lucky to get a draw against Fury...… Tyson Fury absolutely schooled Wilder in the fine art of boxing.
Wilder is lazy, in the sense that he relies far too much on his right hand to end the fight...…
Ortiz was ahead on all scorecards when he went down yesterday....
Fury was out boxing Wilder in all aspects, before Fury went down, but got up.....and it was daylight robbery that Tyson Fury was robbed of the biggest and best comeback in boxing history.
Wilder relies too heavily on his right hand, straight after his left jab...… and when he doesn't land it, he will lose.... simple....
He is also open to most countering heavy hitters, because he sometimes literally goes wild, flinging his shots all over the show..... but to his credit, that has not yet happened.
He has devastating power, even with his left hook, but if you had to add in the movement of Mike Tyson, Wilder would be unstoppable...… but then again Mike Tyson was forced to move like he did and bob and weave, purely because he was one of the shortest heavyweights ever.
Wilder is a top notch fighter, but he is lazy, and he does rely far too much on his power...… but then again, what exactly defines a fantastic fighter.....or the best ever fighter?.....
Unbeaten record, never lost...… Marciano?
Beaten everyone that they ever lost to, in the rematch...…. Lewis?
Fighter who took the least hits...…….. Mayweather?
So many variables......
Who is a better fighter...…
A guy who ends with a 50-0 fight career record
A guy who ends his career winning titles in 8 different weight divisions
I say the latter, because nobody has ever even come close to this record...… and the 50-0 record has been achieved by many other fighters already..... Chavez went 89-0 before his first loss
In my opinion ... there are a lot of different factors that dictate a fighters outcome.
What would Mike Tyson have achieved if he hadn't lost his father figure?
I rate Tyson as the best heavyweight in the game ... ever. If he had been managed like Ali was managed his whole career through, we may now be speaking of Iron Mike in a different way.
8 different weight divisions is a little much, but I get where you're coming from.
The best pound for pound fighters are limited to a handful. I would have to say that Sugar Ray Robinson qualifies for top spot. He had everything in the game and should at least make the top 3 best in boxing history.
Interesting, that we share the same opinion in that way, because I agree with you on most of those points
Sugar Ray Robinson, the best there ever was...… no contest... by a country mile
Mike Tyson, the best heavyweight from any era..... I have seen every single one of his fights..... multiple times, and I don't see any heavyweight going 12 rounds with Mike Tyson when he was in his absolute prime.... and as you say, how things changed when Cus passed away
I read Tyson's autobiography last year...… wow, what a life behind the scenes..... it's incredible that he is still alive, never mind that he still boxed when he did
Some worthy mentions
Rocky Marciano.... purely because he was so small......yet he fought at heavyweight
Willie Pep, no devastating knockout power, but one amazing boxer
Joe Louis
Floyd Mayweather
Did you know that Joe Louis used his piano lesson money to sign up at a boxing gym?
The first time he threw a combo ended up with his sparring partner lying on the canvas ... lights out.
What a fighter.
Definitely one of my top three favourite heavy weights.
Willie Pep? An artist at work.
Another favoutite of mine was Tommy Hearns.
DA
I agree. Fury outboxed him 100%.
Fury got robbed. I said so at the time.
And after the knock down "Undertaker" moment...He got up and won the round. Pretty legendary.
The problem with heavyweights is that that their technique is generally poor as compared to smaller fighters.
They have one attribute and they maximise it because at that size and where that amount of power is involved, things become more simple.
That's why Wilder has 40KOs. That's why the big Russian bored us to death for ten years. He jabbed the heavyweight division into oblivion. Ja, it takes doing, but it's still boring as all hell.
It becomes a rock-paper-scissors game. Power-Movement-Range.
Fury = movement
Wilder = power
And itss why I like Wilder and why I liked Tyson. They're examples of the effect of power. Which to me is the most entertaining element of heavyweight boxing.
Exactly like what happened on Saturday. That WTF moment.
Loma is favorite boxer. He has everything aside from devastating power.
Yeah Plum
It's the knockouts that people definitely want to see, but as the history records will eventually show, it was a decent, better than most, heavyweight career for Wlad, even though it was incredibly boring.
If Wladimir had let his hands go more often, he would have been a more exciting heavyweight fighter, but he was way too scared to let them go or lose.... ever since our very own Corrie showed him what a southpaw can do.
I watched another highlights clip of Fury vs Wilder and to be brutally honest...…. it is fucking disgusting what happened to Fury..... he fought the perfect fight against Wilder, slipping all those right hands by millimeters …… and countering back so effectively, catching Wilder with more punches than I have ever seen him take in any one fight of his career
"Did you know that Joe Louis used his piano lesson money to sign up at a boxing gym?"
It was actually violin classes, and there is a story that he used to carry his boxing gloves around in that same violin case so that his mother would not know he was boxing...…. much like the fact that he fought under the alias... Joe Louis... so that his mother would not hear his name in the fighting world...or in public.
I must say though, I do also rate Lennox Lewis very highly
He has an incredible piston like jab, with a moerse heavy right hand
He could have easily ended his career unbeaten if he had taken those two opponents that he lost to, more seriously..... and he never ducked anyone at all... he literally fought the best of the best in that era..... and poor Bowe also refused outright to fight him
No ... it was definitely piano lessons. Google it yourself.
https://books.google.co.za/books?id=UyJKAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA29&dq=joe+louis+boxer+take+piano+lessons&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO8sbbu4XmAhXRUBUIHfOSCUoQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=joe%20louis%20boxer%20take%20piano%20lessons&f=false.
and his name was Joseph Louis Burrows.
He was named the greatest heavyweight champ of all time in 2005 ... defending his title 25 times ... and reigned as champ for 11 years.
If you ever get the chance to read his book "How to Box" do so.
Maybe the internet is confused, because here are some links to his violin lessons, including an article from the New York Post
Either way..... in all articles, it is very clear that he loved his music
Also, my bad, "Joe Louis" fought under this name, and not "Joseph Louis Barrow" so that his mother would not know that he was fighting, he was not born "Joe Louis"
Thanks CC, will look for that book
Louis would not have handled a peak and ready Mike Tyson, and I am a massive fan of Joe..... but I just don't see it happening
When Tyson named himself the baddest man on the planet, it was honestly the first time ever that I thought that another human being fully deserved and could maintain that title...… he was a complete freak of nature, and to think he was heavily bullied as a youngster and it all changed when someone broke his racing pigeon's neck
The teddy Atlas thing gives Tyson's story another dimension.
Think I've mentioned it here before. He reckons Tyson never beat anyone that actually came to fight. Says that he used to hide from bullies as a child and went back to that mental space when he couldn't win on raw talent.
Basically, he never had a warrior's heart. So if you matched him physically he'd hide.
Not saying I believe him. Just that when you look at his record, his losses, it does fit.
Even if that is 100% true, I dun care. All about the knockout and the moment for me.
Say what you want about Wilder, but he's a beast. Was this his tength title defence?
In the Fury fight, people said the count was long. There's video showing that it was like 12 seconds. Still, he went all the way with Fury, who isn't a chump.
He's been rocked too . The first Ortis fight is an example.
Does he hit as hard a Tyson? With 40KOs, I'm guessing his highlight reel is comparable.
Question is, how much braver than Tyson is he?
Brace yourself, Plum. I'm going to post something that may provoke a tearful response from you.
Terribly sorry..
I see you are desperate to place Lazy Swinging Wilder in the same room as Iron Mike Tyson.
That is truly laughable. They're not in the same league. Iron Mike is the youngest heavyweight champion in history. He's also the youngest to unify the division. What has Wilder achieved ... at 34?
Tyson knocked the first 20 of his opponents out ... 13 of them in the 1st round. He can send you to lalaland with either hand, unlike lazy Wilder who only has a right hand to depend on.
It took Lazy Swinging Wilder 7 rounds to stop Grandpa Ortiz ... a 40 year old bum ... and ... this after having fought him before.Grandpa Ortiz would not have finished the first round standing against Iron Mike, that I can guarantee you ... and you wanna compare Wilder to the most devastating puncher in boxing history?
What is wrong with you?
Oops ... did my "ugly little man" syndrome show itself again. Well, that's what you get when you posts stupid things.
Were you high when you posted this? Are you a junkie? Maybe you should consider booking yourself into a rehab center. Go for a little detox. I think you need it.
Ja doosie.
Did you guys see the clip that went Viral recently about Tyson, regarding his speed at 53 years of age
In case you missed it..... he was showing some tips to these youngsters.... it was just a few weeks ago
Here it is
Now go back 35 years before this...... to when he was 18
Fucking madness...… and in the true sense of the word...… the taller they all were, the harder they all fell
Tyson read every single book that he could and he watched every tape available, to learn every single aspect of boxing. Lennox Lewis said that when they trained together, all Tyson ever did was sit and watch fighters that he respected and admired, to learn tricks from them......Lennox said it was absolutely non stop boxing lessons on videos
Tyson would have done what Ortiz should have done.... Tyson would have got inside, under Wilder's long arms and reach, and he would have pulverized the body, with hooks to the head, and then finally when the hands dropped, he would have put Wilder to sleep...….. there is no doubt in my mind
When Wilder was asked after the Ortiz fight, why he was behind on all the scorecards, he said he never cares about the rounds, because he knows the knockout will come sooner or later......and that, in my opinion, is not the mindset of a true boxer...… a true boxer would want to make 100% sure that he won, if the knockout doesn't come, and to do that, you need to actually box to win the rounds.
But, Wilder will probably go down as the greatest puncher of all heavyweights, and he does have freakish power...… which is mainly in the right hand, but I would very easily take Tyson on any given day, because he could put you to sleep extremely easy, with both hands
Put it this way, if your life was literally on the line, regarding the outcome of a fight, who would you want fighting for your life?
Ok ... so I guess that's the end of our "debate" ...
Come on guys
It was a decent discussion
Why fuck it up with personal bullshit..... for fucks sake
Nice DA.
He's looking good at his age.
Most let themselves go by their mid forties.
I reckon this old man can take Grandpa Ortiz out right now.
No, I don't agree. There have been some ferocious bangers in the game. Lazy Wilder is just another wannabe who finds himself fighting in an era where the heavyweight division is light on superstars like Tyson. Fury and Josh ua aren't exactly top draw.
Wilder may be able to bang, but who can forget Marciano's right hook against Jersey Joe Walcott in the 13th ... or the ferocious display by George Foreman against Smoking Joe ... or how Joe Louis took Max Schmeling apart in the 1st round.
Wilder is a clown ... one who likes to wear fancy dress costumes to the ring ... pulling faces and bashing his chest like an ape ... which I presume is meant to intimidate. He's can afford to clown around because of the lack of talent in the division.
He's a stupid fighter and would never have been allowed to get away with it in years gone by.
I actually agree with you CC, but I'm saying that the record books will show that Wilder had the highest percentage knockout ratio of all heavyweights, throughout heavyweight history, if he continues like he is now.
I don't have to agree with it, which I don't.... but the records will probably reflect that, if he continues with the knockouts
Just imagine a Larry Holmes against Wilder..... Holmes would have schooled Wilder with that jab of his...… which I rate as the best ever in the heavyweight division..... never mind Holmes's power
What a classic piece of history that pic is
Absolutely fucking marvelous...…..
Plum , correct, it was Wilder's 10th title defense, making him only the 6th or 7th heavyweight in the 135 year history to achieve that stat.... more have done 9.
I have to say though, you genuinely cannot really compare those 10 defenses to those of Ali, Tyson or Holmes, never mind Frazier or Louis..... the competition was just so much more superior to what Wilder has faced
Some of Wilders opponents are listed here.....
Gerald Washington
Arthur Szpilka
Johann Duhaupas
Eric Molina
Who are these guys and where are they now?
I enjoy what Deontay brings, don't get me wrong...….. so it's not like I don't like him, but I just cannot compare him to the other greats...… I just can't
Now it seems Wilder is complaining that Mike Tyson will not publicly give him praise for his performances.
He is unhappy that Tyson will apparently give Wilder praise, to those around him, but not to the media or the rest of the world
It seems Wilder is wanting some confirmation that he is doing well, in Tyson's eyes...… quite silly actually
Is it not possible to appreciate both guys?
Surely one must give credit to a guy that can't box well yet has one powerful tool and manages to rack up 41 pro KOs using it?
How many boxers have reached his level after only haven taken up the sport as an adult.
That alone is a massive achievement.
And CC, you didn't prove anything.
I have time this week and will continue your schooling on breath control and training techniques for improving hand speed.
As I have already said Plum, I don't dislike Wilder at all..... he brings a lot of excitement to the heavyweight division, which is never a bad thing
He is the one running around though, stating that he is the most devastating heavyweight that ever lived.... and I don't agree..... not even close...…. but I certainly do respect what he has already achieved.
I thoroughly enjoy his fights, and I think he is a bloody good fighter.....but I don't have to agree with his opinion of himself, saying he is the best ever..... to enjoy those fights.
Ernie Shavers
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Those 3 fighters alone, would knock Wilder out cold within 3 - 6 rounds
DA
What did you think about Teddy Atlas' opinion(posted) on Tyson?
Before I saw that interview, I'd never have thought anyone could have that opinion.
For me, Wilder is a total freak. If he wins about five more fights he'll have booked his Hall of Fame spot.
What I like is that he knows he can't box well. He knows he has just one tool in the box.
I've never seen a boxer able to gas opponents through intimidation alone. All he has to do is stand in front of them and by round 6 they'll slow down. They know they have to keep moving.
They best strategy is probably to do exactly as Ortiz did. But then hang back after the middle rounds and make him come to you. He isn't good at dictating the fight, and that's likely where one is able to beat him.
What are your thoughts on Lomachenko? Personally, I don't think that I've ever been a bigger fan of any player in any sport.
Lomachenko started far too late in my opinion, but boy am I glad that he started
In Lomachenko, you are quite possibly looking at the best ever boxer to have graced this planet and the boxing ring, and I really do mean... the best ever...….but sadly, he did not start the sport when he should have, in my opinion
Atlas and Tyson had a very strange relationship, which only improved recently when Tyson apologised to Teddy at a fight that they both went to.
Tyson, in his autobiography said that only one fighter scared him, throughout his whole career, and it was actually the stare down in the ring right before the fight, that scared him, but he still knocked the guy out pretty quickly, I just cannot remember the fighter's name.
Tyson said he could tell from a fighter's demeanour when he entered the ring, if he was a danger or not, and he reckoned this guy was a serious threat.
So no, I don't believe Tyson was scared....look what he did to Mitch Green on the streets outside of boxing..... and Mitch was an outright bully.
I still clearly remember Tyson trying to put his mouthpiece back in after being knocked down and almost knocked out in the one fight...… and to me, that showed his true heart and a fighter's mentality
When you see the size of the fighters that Tyson took on, it's hard to imagine him being scared, and Tyson very openly talks about when he was bullied as a kid, until his first fight.
Maybe there is a element of truth to what Teddy says, but I don't really see it or believe it...….. but it could be why Tyson resorted to biting Evander when all else failed..... but Tyson said it was because Evander was repeatedly hitting him or butting him with his head, which Evander was notorious for doing.
The ear biting is one of Atlas' avenues of evidence for his theory.
Still, Tyson remains a favorite of mine.
I don't care if a guy loses some fights. It's how he wins the ones that he does that I care about.
This is why I prefer Loma and Canelo to Mayweather. They're not afraid to fight. If you hide your chin behind your shoulder for twelve rounds I may as well have gone to watch a re-rerun of an actual fight instead.
Loma did turn pro a few years too late, but in saying that, he is already in the position of having to move to different weight classes to find a match. When you're the champ and you can't find anyone brave enough to take a payday with a chance of a title...That's when you you know you own that division.
I've started watching Loma's fights at 75% speed. The more I slo it down, the more I realise what a master he is.
So ja, I fully agree with you ;)