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FORUM / RUGBY /  2009 Boks vs 2013 Boks

2009 Boks vs 2013 Boks

Started by oimatey3 REPLIES197 VIEWS· 06 Aug 2013, 06:24
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OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
06 Aug 2013, 06:24
#1
06 Aug 2013, 06:24#1

Thought it would be interesting to do a position by position comparison using the Springbok lineup from the last Tri-Nations test of 2009 against the AB's and a probable lineup based on the current squad.

 

Fullback:  2009 - Frannie , 2013  - Willie

 

What a contrast of players and style. Mind you this was back when F Steyn still remembered how to play rugby so the comparison is not as easy as initially thought. Steyn kicked 3 penalties in the game and the AB's knew that any penalty within ten meters of the Bok side of halfway could end up in 3 points. A massive psychological advantage especially when the long range bombs went over. LeRoux is a much better attacking player with the ability to create from any part of the field. Both are somewhat error-prone, especially for an international fullback but LeRoux more so because he is always trying to pull something off. Verdict: Tie

 

Right wing: 2009 - Odwa, 2013 - Basson

 

Moved Habana to left wing just to make comparisons easier. Odwa a solid player but not a game breaker. Better on defense than Basson but in all other aspects (speed, under the high ball, elusiveness) Basson has his number. If JJ is on the wing its no contest. Verdict: 2013

 

Outside center: 2009 - Jacque, 2013 - JJ

 

While JJ offers a stiff challenge in the attacking aspect and is probably the faster player there is no comparison on the defensive side of the ball or in general rugby instinct. Verdict: 2009

 

Inside center: 2009 - JDV, 2013 - JDV

 

JDV has really hit his stride in the past 18 months. Being given the Bok captaincy has lifted his game to a level of consistency and excellence he didn't show as a younger player. In the best form of his life. Verdict: 2013

 

Left wing: 2009 - Habana, 2013 - Habana

 

Much like JDV and any good wine he has gotten better with age - if anything his overall awareness and involvement in the game has increased. His age is starting to show in his top-end speed, but the rest of his game is as good or better than ever. Verdict: 2013

 

Flyhalf: 2009 - Morne, 2013 - Morne

 

Morne was in fantastic goal-kicking form in 2009. While he has been good this year, it hasn't been without the occasional  stutter. Some say his attacking has improved and the improved Bulls backline this year may be witness of that but I haven't seen it.  Also don't think his tactical kicking is as good as it was. Still the best option on current form, but off from his best: Verdict: 2009

 

Scrummie: 2009 - FDP, 2013 - FDP

 

Assuming that FDP gets the home starts (which is a big assumption). Impossible that he would be as good as he was back then with the time away and the short preparation. Right? Surely he couldn't pull off that kind of form right away? Could he? Or is he just that good? Even if Pienaar or Vermaak start the verdict is still the same.  Verdict: 2009

 

8th man: 2009 - Pierre, 2013 - Vermuelen

 

Spies is no slouch, especially back then, but Vermuelen has the strength and physicality to matchup against Read and Palu. Obviously lacks the pace of Spies but how often has that pace been a factor? Vermuelen much better at the breakdown and hard work at the coal face.  Verdict: 2013

 

#7 Flanker: 2009 - Schalk, 2013 - Alberts

 

Verdict: 2009

 

#6 Flanker: 2009 - Brussouw, 2013 - Louw

 

Brussouw was in untouchable form in 2009. Louw has been getting better and better as evidenced by his most recent effort against Samoa but still doesn't compare to the impact player Brussouw was in the Tri-Nations in 2009.  Verdict: 2009

 

#5 Lock: 2009 - Matfield, 2013 - Kruger

 

Verdict: 2009

 

#4 Lock: 2009 - Bakkies, 2013 - Etzebeth

 

The role of enforcer. Etzebeth has a higher workrate, better lineout option, better ball carrier and he has started to exhibit the maturity and self-control that Bakkies never seemed to be able to completely grasp. Bakkies was too much of a potential liability. This one was easy for me. Verdict: 2013

 

Tighthead: 2009 - Smit,  2013 - Jannie

 

Smit was a pap prop. Great captain, but no way a tighthead. Jannie is not at his best, but still a much better option than Smit  Verdict: 2013

 

Hooker: 2009 - Bissie,  2013 - Strauss

 

Too close to call for me. If I had to try and point out differences, would probably say that Strauss is superior in the technical aspects of scrum and lineout, but Bissie better in the loose although Strauss is not bad there either. Bissie was still somewhat of a loose cannon back then, so maybe Strauss gets the edge but there's really nothing in it for me.  Verdict: Tie

 

Loosehead: 2009 - Beast, 2013 - Beast

 

Can't really say that he has improved since 2009 but maybe thats being cynical ? Verdict: Tie

 

 

Overall Results:  2009 - 6,  2013 - 6, Tie: 3  

 

With the landslide victories for the 2009 squad at #7 and #5  I am forced to declare 2009 as the victors

 

Some of the disparity would be mitigated by moving Louw to #7 to compete against Schalk and bringing Brussouw in at #6 as has been suggested by many on this board but I still think the 2009 team wins those battles as Brussouw has never been able to regain the form of 2009 and there is only one Schalk.

 

The 2013 squad should be better than the 2009 of course if strength was built on strength. That this is not the case can largely be attributed to the lack of introduction of new players by PDV as Moz has illustrated before.  The All Blacks for instance have seen significant improvements since 2009, especially in their locks and outside backs who are better all rounders imo especially under the high ball than the AB team of 2009 that was really victimized by the kick and chase forcing errors.

 

The end result is that there is still a lot of work to be done for Meyer

 

 

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
06 Aug 2013, 06:48
#2
06 Aug 2013, 06:48#2

 Interesting analysis. I agree with your view on JdV and Habana. Interestingly though, I think Habana 2007 was better than 2013. At that stage he was lightning in a bottle....2009 he hadn't evolved his mature style fully, but wasn't as fast. I agree on every forward call.

 

It does suggest we are static while our opponents are moving ahead. The certain progress is marginal, except Etzebeth and Vermeulen (which is more about how poor Spies has been).

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
06 Aug 2013, 11:27
#3
06 Aug 2013, 11:27#3
Oi-matey Your assessment is very near the mark and very objective. I think that the problem with some players is that they have gone backwards at speed and the others showed some ability when they started playing for the Springboks and near to zero since then. I think the main weaknesses in the present team is the lack of performance in certain combinations. I do not have two many problems with the outside backs as outlined - neither with the center combination. However, as you pointed out Morne Steyn definitely has gone backwards and I am not sure about Fourie Du Preez as well. At 30 he is really getting over the prime performance age and after nearly two "soft" years in Japan one never knows what to expect. Maybe I am prejudiced. I saw Du Preez early in his career playing for the Boks in Murrayfield and Twickenham in 2004 and he had shockers then. Ever since those two tests I have been critical of Du Preez - maybe overmuch so. But if - after nearly two years in Japan he repeats those performances - it would be better if he stays in Japan. Our main problem with the team is the backrow. I like Vermeulen - but he has limitations. Not so much in ball carrying - but his mobility is slow for a no 8. He is useful in line-outs and solid in defence. Alberts came on the scene in 2011 and established a reputation of a strong ball carrier and very hard defender. He was not mobile enough and it told in 2011 and 2012 against the mobile Aussie and AB loosies. However, he did not live up to his early reputation and his performances in 2012 and 2013 - showed no grunt in either ball carrying or tackling. He had injury problems and is already 29 years of age. As a result even though slow in mobility in 2012 he has got even slower this year and two slightly speedier Samoan players scored tries in the latest tries he played in by him missing tackles because of mobility deficiency. Is really apart from Morne Steyn the weakest link in the team set up. I always thought highly of Flo and he was better than McCaw in the tests he played in last year. The third poor player in the team at present is Kruger at lock. He has severe limitations in all aspects of play - but I am still hopeful that he would be replaced sooner rather than later. His impact in games he played in for the Springboks have been minimal. I think basically we have younger players that can replace the weaker elements Meyer has selected - and the future looks decidedly better in most areas - but then Meyer must wake up and use the required resources.
SP
SpooonyClub Pro718 posts
06 Aug 2013, 12:31
#4
06 Aug 2013, 12:31#4

You must be smoking some serious shit to pick anyone over Bakkies.

— END OF THREAD —

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