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FORUM / RUGBY /  2014 Currie Cup team

2014 Currie Cup team

Started by Awesome124 REPLIES453 VIEWS· 28 Oct 2014, 07:39
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AW
Awesome1
Rookie81 posts
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Awesome1Rookie81 posts
28 Oct 2014, 07:39
#1
28 Oct 2014, 07:39#1

 Just wondering what might a 2014 Currie Cup form team look like? Any bolters?


 I missed most of the games so having a guess after looking at some stats. All pretty subjective as you could choose players on the most tries scored or assisted , points kicked or just your favourites etc  

 For example..



15    Kolbe      reserve  Benjamin


14    Combrinck   reserve  E Arendse /  K van Wyk


13   de Jongh      reserve  Hanekom /Sithole/Minsi


12    Odendaal     reserve  SWatermeyer /Gates


11     Senatla        reserve  R Rhule


10     Pollard        reserve  Catrakilis /W Du Plessis  


9      S Pretorius    reserve   Van Zyl


8       Whitely         reserve Carr/ Mtembu


7      J du Plessis      reserve  M Rhodes


6        Kriel         reserve  Schoeman /Botes


5       Mostert        reserve   Hattingh 


4       Williamse      reserve Muller


3        Adriaanse     reserve Cilliers /Dreyer


2        K Cooper   reserve A van der Merwe


1        S van der Merwe  reserve  ?

CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 07:54
#2
28 Oct 2014, 07:54#2
Awesome nice try - but you really in my opinion off the mark with some players.   Lets look a things objectively:-
14   Van Wyk was a much better performer than any of the wings mentioned by you.
13   One name stood out here and that is Stokkies Hanekom - the rest were fairly ineffective.   Jordaan and Sithole were both better than De Jongh
12   Watermeyer is my choice here by a mile
  3   Dreyer reserve Redlinghuys
  2   The twoo Lions hookers 
  1   S van der Merwe and the guy from the Pumas
I would not have Adriaanse and Cilliers in the first five tighthead props.



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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Oct 2014, 08:14
#3
28 Oct 2014, 08:14#3

Have you guys wondered why Meyer has selected Redelinghuys over Dreyer?


I can't remember but who started most for the Lions in SUper Rugby? BY memory the two of them were used much like Bismarck and Strauss has been alternated by Meyer?  

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Awesome1
Rookie81 posts
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Awesome1Rookie81 posts
28 Oct 2014, 08:15
#4
28 Oct 2014, 08:15#4

 Clevermike like I said was just going from stats.

Like Combrinck for example scored 6 tries with 3 assists and 20 conversions with 12 penalties .Compared to Kobus Van Wyk only scored 5 tries and 1 assist I think.


J de Jongh had the most tries for any centre if I'm reading the stats correctly.


There was also Boshoff that was injured otherwise his stats would have read better.


Not sure how your stocks are in the locking department either?


No doubt there was a few players that impacted off the bench that are worthy of a mention as well?



CL
clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 08:59
#5
28 Oct 2014, 08:59#5
 BB
I did a bit of checking up on Redelinghuys and Dreyer.   In the first seven matches played by the Lions - Rdelinghuys started in 5 of the games nd Dreyer in 2.  That seemed to be the trend in the Lions team - until Redelinghuys was injured and Dreyer took over as strting prop.   After his return from injury - Redleinghuys played off th bench for the Lions - which wa fairly routine in the case of injured players.   
I think that Redelinghuys is a stronger scrummmager than Dreyer - why may have influenced Meyer in this case.
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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:09
#6
28 Oct 2014, 09:09#6

 Cheers Mike, I did note however on the weekend that the WP did better in a few scrums when Redelinghuys came on, perhaps he just took a while to settle?



RO
Rooinek
Captain18,117 posts
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RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:23
#7
28 Oct 2014, 09:23#7
Awesome, please note that ou Maaik has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Juan de Jongh.

The stats don't lie, De Jongh had a great season and was by some distance the best outside centre in the Currie Cup. Bit of a mystery why he's not back in the Springbok mix but we know Heyneke Meyer has an obsession with size.
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
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DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:33
#8
28 Oct 2014, 09:33#8
 Agreed Rooi, another telling thing is that there actually isn't a recognised 13 in the whole squad of 36. 13 and 3 and to a lesser extend 5 is where our main concern is going to be come WC time. Lets hope for Meyer's sake his gamble with Jan, De Allende pays off.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
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JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:44
#9
28 Oct 2014, 09:44#9
 There appears to be a lot of rants about Juan De Jongh not being in the bok mix on other blogs. I can totally see why. The player has been absolutely class and is better than he's ever been before.

Jordaan and Sithole was not better than De Jongh.

Serfontein at 12, De Allende at 13 and De Jongh to cover on the bench would be a rational option for the boks.
 
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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:49
#10
28 Oct 2014, 09:49#10
 Rooi
With respect - I am not surprised De Jongh is not in the Springbok squad - he was given three opportunities to make his name in the RC and EOYT in 2012 and fluffed the opportunities up badly.    Meyer is not necessarily against smaller-buit players - before the June series - when Francois Steyn through his toys out of the cot - Meyer called up Jordaan to the squad.   If Meyer did not see De Jongh as failing on test level previously - he would have called him up.
However, i think what puts Meyer off De Jongh is he had the worst defensive record of any center in Super 15 and that did not countin his favour.  
As I said - a good  finisher - but not as good as he should be in other aspects of the game.   If there is a crisis at center - De Jongh is probably the fifthor sicth choice Meyer would make in calling him up to the squad.
I have no hang-ups about ny player - but De Jongh has not been up to required standard in Super 15 - especially in defense and aninability to break tackles or vcreate opportunities for other players to use.     A below par centr at Super Rugby level - but adequate at CC level.
Will he play at 13 in Super Rugby next year - I doubt it very much.  Coetzee has promised Meyer to use De Allende at 13 - so that may mean DE Jongh is moved to the wing or the bench in that series.  
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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Oct 2014, 09:55
#11
28 Oct 2014, 09:55#11

 Jerome, I don't think de Allende is our 13, I think Meyer has made his mind up that Serfontein is our 13.


I think de Allende is going to be utilised as a bench replacement for 11, 12 and 13.


Just a feeling.

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clevermike
Coach57,555 posts
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clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2014, 10:25
#12
28 Oct 2014, 10:25#12
 BB
There rcently was a newsppaer report on the playing style Meyer had in mind for thefuture and according to a statement made by Coetzee,  Meyer asked him to use De Allende at 13 in the Super Series to gain more experience in that position, because h wants to play De Allende at 13 in the WC.   
He apaprently realize that Srfontein is essentially a 12 - good in defense at 13 - but harmless in other facets of play - so I think the situation is not cast ins tone at all.
JE
JeromeV
Club Pro492 posts
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JeromeVClub Pro492 posts
28 Oct 2014, 11:41
#13
28 Oct 2014, 11:41#13
 Serfontein plays his best rugby at 12, the position where he was playing at during the Junior world cup and where he became IRB junior player of the year.

Meyer only opts for Serfontein at 13 because he doesn't want to leave out De Villiers who can't play that good at 13 either. Little does he know De Villiers has been way out of form this year and shouldn't be considered in the starting team at all.

 
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biltongbek
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biltongbekClub Pro749 posts
28 Oct 2014, 11:55
#14
28 Oct 2014, 11:55#14

 Clevermike, I read that as well, I actually don't know what to think to be honest.


We need a strong midfield, but with Jean continually being selected and being captain we are not going t evolve our backline play when we are hamp ered with Jean having to be there.

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
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MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2014, 14:53
#15
28 Oct 2014, 14:53#15
Jean remains our best bet to break the line at 12. If Steppie is to play 13 he needs to defend in 13 channel and we can't rely on Jean to cover 13 defensively. Can Steppie do that....head on maybe....but as we saw with Conrad Smith if a quickish player gets outside him, look out. Pace is an issue.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2014, 16:43
#16
28 Oct 2014, 16:43#16

Hanekom was far, far better than de Jongh at 13.

 

Adriaanse was useless at 3 for the Sharks......Dreyer was far better

 

 

DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Oct 2014, 18:03
#17
28 Oct 2014, 18:03#17
 Stokkies did well, I like him, but de Jongh was the best 13  in the CC. Obviously he does not have what Meyer wants from his 13, hence Meyer's choice to play other players there. To me it remains a concern if a coach pics players out of position. I would have preferred if he picked a real 13 for the Boks. You don't experiment at test level.
SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
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Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2014, 19:02
#18
28 Oct 2014, 19:02#18
Rubbish Hanekom was far better than de Jongh....it was not even close  
DB
DbDraad
Captain26,388 posts
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:19
#19
28 Oct 2014, 20:19#19
 Sadie was better than both in the S15. Stokkies might have been bettsr ball in hand, but De Jongh ran better lines in support, resulting in more tries.
RO
Rooinek
Captain18,117 posts
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RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
28 Oct 2014, 20:39
#20
28 Oct 2014, 20:39#20
"Rubbish Hanekom was far better than de Jongh....it was not even close."
This is delusional nonsense based on preconceived prejudice.
For what it's worth, I do agree that it wasn't even close.
BE
Beeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Oct 2014, 21:25
#21
28 Oct 2014, 21:25#21
 De Jongh still has very little distributive skills. He disappears when the big boys play.
H e has had plenty of opportunity and flopped. Cant see any reason he would now succeed at the highest level.Allende has the attributes to make an excellent 13 with Jan being our future 12. 

MO
Mozart
Captain49,914 posts
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2014, 21:26
#22
28 Oct 2014, 21:26#22
Preconceived prejudice ....certainly, but it extends to more  than de Jongh. A pattern of prejudice exists. 
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Awesome1
Rookie81 posts
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Awesome1Rookie81 posts
28 Oct 2014, 21:52
#23
28 Oct 2014, 21:52#23

 Like I said it all depends what criteria you use . Can't find the metres gained stats as that would another indicator.


In the Dreyer vs Adriaanse debate Adriaanse scored one more try than Dreyer.

Dreyer was also yellow carded.

 Dreyer contributed to 10 bonus points for his team whereas the Sharks only got 3.

Dreyer is also credited with an assist and has an extra full appearance.


In the Juan deJongh vs Stokkies Hanekom debate de Jonghs stats indicate 11 full appearences (FA) to Hanekom 's 5 (FA)

Part appearences Hanekom 4 -  deJongh 0


Juan de Jongh          6 tries and 3 assists  and Man of the match (1)

Stokkies Hanekom    4 tries and 2 assists

Shane Gates             5 tries and 2 assists


SA
Saffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
29 Oct 2014, 12:27
#24
29 Oct 2014, 12:27#24

What utter bloody rubbish, de Jongh missed far too many tackles and Hanekom was far more dangerous with ball in hand.

 

The number of tries scored says nothing

 

Its laughable that tries scored are brought into the equation with regards to props.

 

Adriaanse was a liability in the scrums, Dreyer dominated......therein lies the difference  

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Awesome1
Rookie81 posts
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Awesome1Rookie81 posts
29 Oct 2014, 18:56
#25
29 Oct 2014, 18:56#25

 That's good feedback . I'm not disputing anything but ultimately I'm trying to put together a team that scores the most points in the Currie Cup Fantasy League and welcome all the input. Couldn't help notice which players were chosen for the Barbarians team though.

Like I said from a Fantasy League perspective the ultimate goal is to score the most points within the confines of the competition. So the stats can be skewed and not necessarily indicative of a player's abilities.

They award 16 points for a try to a tight five forward and minus six for a yellow . But despite that at the end of the competition there was only two points separating the aforementioned props.

Much more clear cut was the 70pt difference between de Jongh and Hanekom. Does'nt necessarily mean he's a better player but only that from a Fantasy rugby perspective he earned more points. Helps if you win more away games as well and are part of a winning team.


 



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