2017 Sad Quota Report Card

We all understand the mission.....having a representative Bok team. Understandable after the years of Apartheid. But good intentions often lead to aberrant results.....in this case embarrassing players who are not up to the task they are gifted. So how did it all work out in 2017: Rhule......totally incompetent defensively, and inexplicably brought back into the squad after abject failure. Skosan....almost no contributions to the Bok effort, failures defensively and under the high ball. Probably done as a test player. Lleyds...some nice attacking contributions, good vision, but one is left with the memory of defeinsive lapses against big wings. A qualified success Gelant...playing out of position, it showed in an invisible defensive effort, including under the high ball. Will get a proper chance but the initial impressions don’t make a strong case. Am....on the pitch for minutes. The coach never had enough confidence in him to give him a half against Italy. Potential still unknown Mapoe.....much the same as Rhule, but perhaps a little stouter in defence. Jantjies....the outstanding Bok flyhalf of the Super campaign, but produced another nervous breakdown in the tests, including missing a crucial kick which would have beaten Oz. Surely done now as a test player. Bosch....young, a siege gun boot, but no real flyhalf model, even on attack. And his defence is school boy level Paige....reasonably competent off the bench play, but nothing that really says he belongs in international rugby Nyakane....slow, ponderous and not a strong scrummager. Doesn’t belong. Bongi....hard to claim he is our second best hooker, but played with heart and competence. Is a legitimate international Chili....not embarrassed by his drug use, he attacks his province. Hardly great qualities in a team man. And then he is a zero as a player. Beast....continues as one of the world’s best loosheads. A great Bok, but now competing with the rapidly improving Kitshoff. By WC time he may be an old head off the bench, but nothing but respect for this man. Mohoje....looked quite good against Wales, and has done in the past. But bench is his highest calling. Notshe....a fine runner, but physically not up to test rugby. Kolisi....made big strides this year, and was our best loosie in a number of tests. But not against the ABs, and he is still a difficult piece of the puzzle. Needs to be good on the deck, but instead is a dangerous open field runner. So becomes a small 7. This will work some of the time. Cassiem.....a trier, but shown to be low on horsepower. So what do we conclude. The Beast and Kolisi are test players and worthy team members. Players like Lleyds, Mohoje and Bongi are contributors, if only on occasions. Others like Jantjies, Skosan, Mapoe, Chili, Cassiem and Notshe weaken the team. No new player of colour has made a case for permanent team selection this year.....and no player of colour is crucial to the team effort. Even the great Beast is now well covered by Kitshoff. Against this backdrop the drive to include half the team from this group is killing our rugby and humiliating a bunch of players who can have perfectly successful careers one level down. Quotas can survive and perhaps play some role in domestic rugby developing a bigger pool of players of colour. The constraints will be ruthlessly exposed in any non domestic competition. Our Sevens team shows the way....pick the best team regardless of race. And in that more open competition we have many superstars from all parts of the population.

Great Report Mozart. I thought that Gelant should have played at 15 against Italy and not on the wing. He has a good tackle technique and in the Super Rugby manage to bring Savea down at full pace as the last line of defence. Bosh is not an international player. Would have love to see Am against Italy or France to see how he copes against bigger backs. Should have gotten more opportunities considering how poor Jess Kriel has been. Skosan has great pace, but not to test level. His high ball was absolutely atrocious. Heck, even JP Pietersen and Brian Habana will still do better than the current bunch. I would bring the 2 back for next year, merely to keep them in the squad and ask them to keep the youngsters on their toes. Habana will be 35 next year, but Pietersen will on be 30. My point being, we need to produce Transformation players of the likes of Beast, Habana and Pietersen.

Further, Kolisi has never been a 6. He is an out and out attacking player and wonder whether 8 will be better for him. Not the tallest 8's but he has the ball skill, mobility and hands to act as a link.

Maybe somebody like Habana could be brought back to mentor our wings. He was a;ways a smart player as well as having world class speed in his younger days. But we need two effective wings for the WC....van Wyk has all the credentials. As for Kolisi, we could try him in various loosie slots, but he will force compromises in the other loosie....which may be fine. But he needs to produce a big game against a team like Ireland/England or the ABs before he is a certainty.

Perhaps the wording could split quotas from merit players of colour. A quota player is someone that is not test standard, but chosen on the basis of their race in order to facilitate the transformation of power to black people, but more accurately to a black minority. Many of the players above are the best, or some of the best in their positions. Skosan and Leyds were arguably the two form SA wingers in SuperRugby. Although having both of them in the back three is just too light, and like many players before them failed in the Coetzee era. Gelant looked like the best new prospect on tour, and was encouraging. Criticism of the players is essential, but we must also factor in they are playing without an international standard coach- and made to look like amateurs.

Our biggest issue is neither quota nor skill / talent. The issues are: Selection criteria - not selecting the best player for a position. We have outstanding players who ply their trade elsewhere. The inability of coaches (all of the buggers) to enhance, hone and add to the soft-skills of players. An utter inability to effectively select a suitable defensive plan. It was evident from the Wales game that our defensive coaches are plain kak. We seem to have a similar problem on attack. Players like Andries Coetzee have had no remedial coaching to ensure he actually passes the ball once in a game -(To be fair he should never have been selected). We (coaches, management and team) celebrate mediocrity and just like their political masters have absolutely zero accountability. We select players in positions that they are not familiar with - a case in point - Gelant. Players are selected on reputation and not on actual form. PS: Long time no visit - the forum looks much better - well done to the owners/web-developers.

The problem with the players Coetzee selected have been stupid to say the least. Take for instance Leyds. He went to play for the Western Force in 2014 and was so poor that they released him from his contract after a year, He was so poor that they did not want him, but the moment he turned up in Cape Town he was selected by Coetzee. In my opinion he is no better as a player than he was when rejected by the Western Force. If Coetzee really selected worthy players of colour and not his favourite duds there may be more players of colour proving themselves in tests.

Not suggesting all these players are quota selections, but they all form part of the quota numbers....hence they are in my report. We need to look at players without these colour tinted spectacles. And we need to encourage young white wings to also have a go. Thats the right way to recognize real Springboks of colour like Habana, JP and the Beast who have honoured the jersey with their excellence.

QUEstion.Where's the report card on the white players ? It won't look so blatantly racist if the critique of rubbish Springbok players is balanced out with a report card on all the underperforming white players as well. Just saying.

Black Adder. Fair point. There are hust as many white players also performing poorly. This has been noted on this bpard in the recent past. And not only under Coetzee, we complained anout them under Meyer too. My bigest gripe with the Q is that it degrades merited players of colour too.

What’s racist is selecting players based on anything but performance and requiring certain numbers of players to come from certain racial groups.

Still waiting for the White Players Report Card .

This was my match report ! https://www.ruckersforum.com/forum/rugby/bok-player-ratings-vs-wales/24888/

Hmmm wait to your heart’s content Sader, no need to respond to the tired old racist accusations.

OK - lets see how the White players have done. Coetzee - substandard when compared to his provincial performances - maybe he was forced into a game plan he is not fitted to play his natural game. Kriel was not worthm much on attack and is not a good defender either. Venter was better than De Allende who was totally out of form. The center combination was a nightmare over the past two years. Pollard was not really matchfit and suffered from a system he was forced into - his out-of-hand kcicking game was at times poor. Cronje - his kicking game was mindblowingly poor. Louw - is not the player he was three years ago. He was not good in ball protection and recovery and his ball handling skills vanished from sight. Although he was better against Italy - his work rate in other games was poor ie wat below standard. Vermeulen was definitely not matchfit and was a vey low work rate player at best. Frans Steyn was not matchfit and a disaster in defense when he played off the bench in June. Dreyer - a disaster as prop - the worst I have ever seen in Springbok colours,.

Wooooooosh!

The trouble begins with the selection of a coach on the basis of his colour who never warranted selection as Bok coach. This quota coach then selected quota players. Now to be fair anc policy forced him to do this. BUT given his lack of rugby acumen Alistair also picked the wrong black players and some useless white players - eg Dreyer who can't scrum. So all in all we had a mess whereby Alistair has, is it, a 43% success rate. This of course brings great joy to that awful crusader fan who delights in the racism and inefficiency destroying our rugby. He cannot see that poor selections of white players is due to poor judgement by the quota coach. He is oblivious to the fact there are colour requirements regarding the Bok squad. crusader fan is of course completely clueless as usual. Fortunatley Beeno is here to educate the buffoon! I am not in the least interested in a representative Bok side . I want the best team and coaches selected for the Boks regardless of colour. If you are so concerned about the team being representative you are very obviously a racist. Beeno calling out the racist bigots.

What is tragic is how so many Springbok fans demanded Heyneke Meyers removal. Meyer who had a massive 30 % better success rate than Coetzee THat is where the blame lies for the Springboks's current woes. It's with the hair brain fans the likes of Beanob here that need to learn to shut their cakeholes.

Agree with Beeno1. Quota coaches make dumb decision as they never had the ability to find the best players in their respective positions. If you look at the states the boks were in when Meyer took over from PDiv. He had 1 year where the boks did well, but it was also a very week all blacks team that went through an experimental phase. They even lost to the Barbarians. Rare, but it was a poor, inexperience all black team. Those same Kiwi players then went on from that year to dominate the current rugby land scape. So if you ask me, what has Coetzee done, he has 2 full years. His first year was 33% He could be forgiven for a 50%, but not 33%. Meyer did not leave him with a weak team. A bulk of those players featured in the Semi's and lost by 2 points but went on to beat australia to finish 3rd. Just really dumb planning

We actually beat Argentina to finish third. Australia lost to NZ in the final. Now here’s a conundrum for the “SA had an easy ride in 2007”- brigade. Did Aus deserve to be in the final? They did not play SA, who only lost to NZ by two points, after all.

Foeitog I mentioned three favourite players as sub-standard and he has a fit. I gave proven reasons and he can counter them with stats - but he fails to do anything to disprove my summary, What he came up elsewhere about ball turnovers by Louw - which was never proved as being made - he got quiet and did not comment further on that issue. An then he does not realize when his favourites does not produce the goods and spin yarns to get past any reservations about the players, The yarns does not hold water - end of story.

Tokkie you incredibly stupid man, you missed the point again. Do try to figure it out. So Sader if you like representative teams, how about a representative NZ team. I figure that would include 12 white chappies. Last count you chaps had 6. Is that racial bias?

black adder is not to be confused with Saderfan although they both seem to support the Christchurch team.

Listen, I'm not getting into a race debate . All i'm pointing out is their should be a balance in criticism. Singling out all the black players to apportion blame to is what is getting tired and old.

Hey old crust fan please pay attention and you will find many white players have been criticized as well. Bwahhahahahahaha ou crustie fan giving himself away! Crustie fan soundly rebuked!

Is WOOSH a point Mozart?

My mistake....Adder here’s the thing. There has been plently of criticism by me and others of the whole team. This thread is about the effect of rules that require 50% of our WC team to come from non white players. A requirement that should be rejected by anybody who believes in excellence in sports. No equivalent constraint is applied to any other rugby team....nor for that matter in reverse to our Soccer team. The corrosive effect of these rules has many tentacles. All we ask is that the best player is chosen regardless of race. That’s not a belief that needs to be defended.

Dr Moz I thing old crust fan has been completely obliterated and very embarassed by his legendary ignorance. Hahahhahahahahaha these kiwis are a hoot!

Isnt it amazing how when you dig a little deeper you realise that a representative team in the SA context is nothing but a spin which covers up the fact its a race based - ie racist selected team. Ou crust fan is so stumped because he knows nz have no such race based selection criteria but of course is happy we do. Beeno unmasking the old crust fan!