SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Feb 2024, 22:42#1
?? BOK ENFORCER CRACKS TOP 10 NOD ??
Eben Etzebeth is among the four Springboks who have been named in a ranking of the Top 10 forwards in the world currently playing.
Widely regarded as the world’s best enforcers, Etzebeth was named in Ruck.co.uk‘s ranking of the Top 10 forwards in the world, alongside three of his World Cup-winning Springbok teammates.
Etzebeth was ranked at number four in the world, with Ruck noting how his physicality and presence has anchored the Bok pack.
“His lineout expertise, ball-carrying power, and confrontational play style make him a formidable force on the field.”
Siya Kolisi is the highest-ranked South African on the list, with the Bok captain coming in at number two in the world.
“South Africa’s charismatic captain captivated his team and the world with his pre and post match speeches during this year’s World Cup, but the ability to be a stand out player among a team of stand out players proves that he can also walk the walk,” Ruck said.
They are joined by the 2023 World Cup final’s man of the match Pieter-Steph du Toit (ninth) and loosehead prop Ox Nche (sixth) as the Springboks on the list.
The All Blacks’ Ardie Savea tops the list, with Ruck noting that his “versatility and aggression set him apart”.
Ruck.co.uk’s Top 10 forwards in the world:10. Gregory Aldritt (France)9. Pieter-Steph du Toit (South Africa)8. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)7. Scott Barrett (New Zealand)6. Ox Nche (South Africa)5. Maro Itoje (England)4 Eben Etzebeth (South Africa)3. Caelin Doris (Ireland)2. Siya Kolisi (South Africa)1. Ardie Savea (New Zealand)
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Feb 2024, 23:27#2
Kitshoff, Marx and Malherbe can’t be far off, RG had he played more would be there as would Kwagga
24 Feb 2024, 03:23#3
How can Kollisi be rated higher than Eben, Pieter and Ox?? That does not make sense if you looked properly at the games…..Even mostert and Kwagga out performed him …Itoje should not even be on that list….
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Feb 2024, 03:33#4
Etzebeth, Savea, Marx, Kremer, Ox, Doris, Tupou, Beirne, Barrett, Aldritt …..in that order.
24 Feb 2024, 03:42#5
Yeah Moz Marcos Kremer is a beast from Argentina.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2024, 12:25#8
Kolisi is 100 times better than useless Mostert
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2024, 12:33#9
Well Pakie if you believe stats alone define a player then you are in serious trouble
I’m not saying Kolisi is number 2 but I just laugh at those who don’t rate him - same applies to PSDT
Instead they mention the utterly useless Mostert who does not come close to making any list - why - because he falls far too short in his primary functions.
If it was locks making nice little process tackles he would rate highly. Ask him to make a physical carry, hit, clear out or add some grunt to the pack and you get zero - the true measure of a lock especially a Bok one
24 Feb 2024, 12:45#10
Well if this was true about Mostert, then why is he so highly rated by Rassie? Started all the important crunch games in WC 23 and we won….The so called Genius Rassie, can not be so far off not to see the things that you just mentioned. I am happy though that young Locks like Ruben van Heerden, Ruan Nortje is joining the Action.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2024, 13:06#11
It’s Rassie only failing is picking Mostert
He started the WC games as Lood was injured - had Lood been fit he would not have smelt the starting side
He is shit
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Feb 2024, 13:55#13
Bullshit you don’t get ranked anywhere in the top 10 being that average
His best contributions come from his ball in hand and physical hits - never been a breakdown exponent and is therefore not measured in that regard - if he was he would not be in the side
Fact is Kwagga makes his impacts off the bench when the damage has been done. In all the games Kwagga has started he has been totally ineffective
PLPlum
Captain21,007 posts
25 Feb 2024, 09:52#18
Mostert - His stats are there for the world to see. It's literally Mike and Saffex that don't like him. Everybody else, including Rassie and Swys, wouldn't leave home without Mostert.
DDA - Has some of the worst stats ever for a long-time Bok, and very rarely does anything spectacular, or even noteworthy. To the point where when a ball simply goes through his hands, to the next guy, suddenly a regulation is elevated to "pass of the year" status.
No? Name me anything impactful he did at the WC other than catch a lucky bounce and run towards the French try line.
The fact that Kwagga, the most impactful forward at the WC, didn't get into this top ten, is a joke.
Eben would walk into any team on earth...and so would Kwagga. An 8 that steals more ball than any other in the game, makes line breaks, and seems to always be in the right place at the right time.
Haha Kolisi, the Mandela of rugby! If you leave him off of any top "x" list you're basically a Nazi. And nobody wants to be a Nazi.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Feb 2024, 12:28#21
This all sounds about as informed as telling us that world player of the year PSDT is average
Now our number 2 ranked forward in the game is a passenger - insulting. If Kolisi was English he would walk the England side and he would captain it.
But it’s the same we read about so many of our players and our brilliant coach
But as long as we keep winning WC’s none of this ignorant shit counts for anything
Kolisi in my opinion is a class act as are Willie, Mapimpi, Nkosi, Arendse, Kolbe, Am, Kriel, Moodie, Willemse, de Allende, Esterhuizen, Pollard, Libbok, Faf, Reinach, Williams, Hendrikse, Jantjies, Kitshoff, Ox, Marx, Bongi, Malherbe, Nyakane, Etzebeth, Lood, RG, Kwagga, PSDT, Wiese and Vermeulen. We also happen to have the best coach SA has ever had in Rassie. Go Bokke and go that great man Kolisi
SHsharkbok
Captain23,220 posts
SHsharkbokCaptain23,220 posts
25 Feb 2024, 23:10#22
Kolisi has had some exceptional games, but I don't think he is consistent enough to be considered in the top 10 forwards in the world.
He would be better as an eight-man where he can use his running and distribution game.
His contribution to the breakdown is not good enough.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Feb 2024, 23:19#23
His contribution to the breakdown is not his role. Just because he has a 6 on his back does not mean he has to effect turnovers - not when other players are tasked with doing that. He plays away from the breakdown
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 09:38#27
Fuck you lot are stupid - what part of the equation are you missing with regards to the primary role of a lock - it’s certainly not making process tackles
As for Kolisi - his tackles are not process ones, he happened to make the most dominant tackles of any player in the game for the whole of 2023 - not those little soft ones Mostert makes
Kolisi is by far our best ball in hand forward
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 14:25#30
Wake up the only reason Rassie started Mostert was because Lood was injured
Yes I think Rassie is stupid selecting Mostert as he is shit, he is a physical liability. It’s not the job of a lock to make tackles - we don’t see any other test lock running around making that many tackles - that would be great if he actually contributed where it counts - I have never seen him make a dominant tackle as he simply can’t. Have you ever seen him take contact and drive the opposition backwards like a lock should? Fuck me he has two carries in the knock out games and got smashed conceding possession in the process. Mostert is shit and thank fuck he turns 34 soon so we hopefully never see him in a Bok side again.
Get real grunt men on the field if we really want to push home the physical advantage - Mostert sells us short in this regard and that’s a fact. It’s his primary role.
The only less that optimum physical lock that ever merited selection was Matfield as his all round skills were so great. But even he to his credit had muscled up to a respectable 115kg in his prime. He at least made the effort to bulk up
As for useless Mostert being our blindside - we tried that in the Lions series when PSDT got injured. He was so shit they replaced him with tiny Kwagga as our blindside
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 15:14#32
Oh bullshit PSDT was a great lock, far far better than Mostert as a lock
Rassie saw that PSDT had the skill set to move to 7 and he was spot on, so much so that he won world player of the year.
Fuck me Moz, Rassie moved him to 7 not because he was failing as a lock but because he was short of a grunt 7.
Your call that he is poor in the line outs is utter bullshit just like your call that Mostert is so good in the line outs. There is absolutely nothing special about Mostert’s line out work as was the case with Matfield.
Mostert is no better or worse than Eben, Lood, RG or PSDT in the line outs and that’s a fact.
Mostert sells our pack short, it’s why Rassie prefers Lood at 5 and it was also the most obvious call that RG should have started at 5 ahead of Mostert in Lood’s absence
The only reason I can think why he did not was that Rassie wanted to balance out the strength of the starting pack with the forwards on the bench
But he need not have done that if he had been smart enough to select better WC squad locks than Mostert and the even worse Orie
Jenkins, Ruben v Heerden, Ruan Vermaak, Moerat, Grobelaar etc etc are all far better traditional locks than Mostert and in particular Orie
MOMozart
Captain49,914 posts
MOMozartCaptain49,914 posts
26 Feb 2024, 15:27#33
Etzebeth is money at 3…..but nobody steals more opposition balls than Mostert. Hell the guy contributes in so many ways, often the first clean out player, the lineouts, the tackling.
For a player is so active, he hardly ever gets penalized. And Eluckmiss’ no offload game plan negates another Mostert skill. In the old Lions’ set up he was an excellent offloader. Just like Frik du Preez who was really too short for a lock, Mostert’s lack of bulk hasn’t stopped him from being one of the best locks in the game.
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 16:04#34
Clean out player? He can’t clean out - that’s his problem - remember the 18 year old Georgian fullback that he could not clean out?
He is a small man, narrow shoulders, no bulk in the chest or arms and has never displayed any form of strength. So when he takes it up in contact he makes no impression, the same applies to his attempted clean outs and you will never see him make a big physical dominant tackle like PSDT on Jordie. He just does not have the physical make up to be dominant either defensively or with ball in hand. Given this very fact how the hell can he add value in the engine room? Be it in mauls or scrums? It’s virtually impossible to measure with the naked eye but common sense dictates that a big 125kg physical lock is going to add more grunt than a 110kg would do. It’s not brain science
There is no way in hell Mostert is better than RG or Lood in the line outs, especially RG.
Best locks in the game - fuck off Moz that’s a joke. There are 10 better locks in SA and I mean that sincerely
Frik might have been too short for a lock but in those days it never counted for much as line outs were a shambles - but he was bulky much like Drickus Hattingh and therefore would have added physical value. He was short but at 109kg he was a similar weight to the much taller Mostert
I’ve never seen Mostert offload in my life - just can’t see how he could as you need to take contact and have the strength to effect the offload which he certainly does not.
Rassie and no offload? Then why do we see RG offloading for the Boks all the time?
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 16:31#36
Kolisi is much shorter than Mostert, Kolisi is muscled up to the hilt, Mostert is not.
Big difference, Kolisi is powerful, Mostert is not
No ways does RG not start because of the offloading - if Rassie wanted no offloads he would stop RG doing it
We all know that RG is far better than Mostert even you acknowledge that so the reason he never started was certainly not a merit thing - it had to be balancing the 23 out - had to be
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
26 Feb 2024, 18:02#38
Bullshit it’s was about balancing the 23 Rassie might have it totally wrong when in comes to selecting the physically inept Mostert but he is not stupid. No rugby follower on any level could select Mostert over RG on merit
It definitely has to be down to something else and that can only be a balancing thing. Same applies to Marx and sometimes Ox
SASaffolk
Captain30,741 posts
SASaffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Feb 2024, 00:16#40
Oh boy back to those stats hey - so are you saying Mostert is better than RG?