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5 myths about the wee abs

Started by Beeno122 REPLIES534 VIEWS· 03 Oct 2013, 23:40
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Oct 2013, 23:40
#1
03 Oct 2013, 23:40#1


By Brendon Nel on Superpsort


MYTH ONE: The All Blacks are an all-out attacking team.

Statistics tell a very different story. A story of a team that plays very much like the Springbok teams of the past decade.

This Castle Lager Rugby Championship alone, the All Blacks have placed a virtual ban on running from inside their half. Consider the fact that they have received the ball a massive 124 times in their own half, and only on six – that’s right, six – occasions have they run from their own half.

They are much more likely to play for field territory, and try and put pressure on the opposition by putting the ball high and swamping the breakdown. Sound familiar? Well, it should. It is the same tactics that the Boks and Bulls made work for them for so many years.

MYTH TWO: The All Blacks don’t kick the ball away

Heyneke Meyer has harped on this point to anyone who would care to listen – and he is right. The All Blacks last year kicked way more than the Springboks and in this year’s competition it has been the same.

They average way more kicks, playing field possession and looking to score off the opposition's mistakes. Aaron Smith has excelled with his box kick, and both wingers – even Julien Savea – have become a force under the high ball.

Ben Smith is not the leading try-scorer in the competition for nothing and as a former fullback is comfortable in the air.

The Boks on the other hand have regressed. In Auckland they didn’t take one of the eight balls kicked on them and it proved costly.

It gave the All Blacks an attacking platform from a well-worked kicking game, and when they sense an opening, they punish the opposition well.

But when it comes down to who plays the kick and chase, there is much evidence that it is the world champions. The difference is the accuracy of their kicking game at the moment.

MYTH THREE: The All Blacks' defence is the best in the business

They certainly give away fewer tries than other teams and this is partly because of their dominance on the field. But the All Blacks commit blatant professional fouls in their own red zone without a worry about how the referees will see it. And too often, they get away with it.

Consider the fact the majority of their penalties are committed at the ruck, and many of these within their own red zone, showing they would rather give away three points than a try to the opposition.

Too often referees are lenient and allow them to get away with blatant fouls on their own tryline, something that other teams don’t enjoy.

It is also no coincidence that before last weekend’s match, one Richie McCaw was the biggest offender, despite the fact that he had missed games for the All Blacks. Referees seem way too happy to ignore his indiscretions with cards, and it simply underlines the case that the All Blacks get away with so much more than other teams.

MYTH FOUR: The All Blacks create tries out of nothing.

While there is a romantic view that they are the best attacking team in the business, this year’s statistics don't really back up that view.

The All Blacks are clinical. They manage to punish opposition mistakes very well, especially from wayward kicks – such as Bryan Habana’s one in Auckland.

While the Springboks' tries come mostly from lineouts – setpieces where they can set up a maul or other moves – the All Blacks have scored only 7 of their 19 tries through this method.

On six occasions tries have come from opposition kicks which were poorly executed. Another six came from turnovers – broken field – where most of the quick points in modern rugby come from.

With 12 out of 19 tries coming from unstructured play, it underlines the fact they are exceptionally good on opposition mistakes, and limiting this will improve the Boks' chances of victory on Saturday.

MYTH FIVE: The All Blacks are unbeatable.

Credit must be given to the All Blacks for their consistency, and the manner in which they continue to lead the world in winning rugby. Winning is a habit, and so is losing, and the All Blacks have used every advantage in the book (and not in the book) to make sure they stay on top of things.

But they are not invincible.

To beat the All Blacks you will need to be better than them on the day, get luck (and a referee) to go your way and simply stop them from doing what they do well.

There were glimpses in Auckland that the Boks could do this, but the referee played too much of a part in the game.

Still the Boks took a lot out of the fact that they managed to hold the All Blacks to a 12-5 second-half scoreline, and actually looked better in the last part of the game, despite being down to 14 players for the majority of the half.

The Boks need to overcome this psychological hurdle first, not only for themselves, but also for the rest of the world who will be watching this contest very keenly.


There is absolutely no psychological problem. These Boks were 20 points better in Dunedin last year and doubtless would have won the recent test but for a ref again favouring the kiwis. They KNOW they are better - end of story

PA
PapamoaClub Pro683 posts
03 Oct 2013, 23:51
#2
03 Oct 2013, 23:51#2
Well,   I'll give you one thing, you are consistent.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
03 Oct 2013, 23:59
#3
03 Oct 2013, 23:59#3
Papa moaner its all so logical! 
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:01
#4
04 Oct 2013, 00:01#4
 Beeno:  still stirring the same pot with the same spoon, lol
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 00:33
#5
04 Oct 2013, 00:33#5
Beenkop stop embarrassing us.....you can start beating this drum the day we start beating the Kiwi's regularly
PO
polyboyClub Pro601 posts
04 Oct 2013, 01:00
#6
04 Oct 2013, 01:00#6
Of course Brendon Nel  has no need to be bias does he.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
04 Oct 2013, 01:09
#7
04 Oct 2013, 01:09#7
Fact is, the Boks have slipped against the AB's ever since our side was no longer a merit side
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
04 Oct 2013, 01:38
#8
04 Oct 2013, 01:38#8
What isn't a myth is the ABs are warriors....100 per cent committed to win. I would prefer not to see more of the Messam Hollywood stuff. But that aside its hard to fault the men in black. We are either good enough or not, running down our opponents acheives very little. 
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
04 Oct 2013, 04:55
#9
04 Oct 2013, 04:55#9
Oh dear, Nel is once again manufacturing another strawman in a shameless attempt to discredit the Darkness.  By far, it is one of the more remarkable uses of colourful graphs and prejudiced interpretations I've read in a very long time. The most laughable of all is where he be uses a catalogue of All Black penalties to "prove" that the ABs are guilty of continually conceding  redzone penalties.  
"the All Blacks commit blatant professional fouls in their own red zone without a worry"


"Too often referees are lenient and allow them to get away with blatant fouls on their own tryline"

As proof of his accusation of AB cynicism, he provides a detailed inventory of AB penalties. However, the resultant graph sheds NO light on the whereabouts of these penalties (crucial information when trying to qualify an accusation of repeated redzone infringements) yet he somehow manages to equate ruck penalties as redzone penalties?
"the majority of their penalties are committed at the ruck, and many of these within their own red zone, showing they would rather give away three points than a try to the opposition"

Huh?, how on earth has he come to this conclusion?   Even If I were feeling charitable and conceded that a significant number of AB penalties are committed in their redzone, how does this compare to the other RC teams?  It is dishonest and misleading of Nel to quote statistics in isolation without providing a "control" group to compare these numbers against.  For all we know, the ABs might have the lowest redzone penalty count in the entire competition.  Nel doesn't bother to elaborate so the naive, cognitively challenged reader with a predetermined bias is happy to accept his conclusions without ever bothering to ascertain the validity of his statistical analysis. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Oct 2013, 09:42
#10
04 Oct 2013, 09:42#10
 Oh please the abs are shown far too much respect and their record is a myth built on unfair practice. I recall Naas and company being so glad the abs won the world cup - that after a kiwi ref had shafted us big time. We also had a saffar ref handing them them the wc on a platter. We must be mad. They shaft us out of the WC and our ref hands them the wc after the french had outplayed them!!!!!!!!!!! Our refs also favour nz sides versus OZ Hence the fantastical ratio of penalties to yellow cards hugely favouring the abs as Oz also favour kiwi sides.Its time to wake up and realise the abs have been getting away with murder.I am very happy at the widespread reporting of refs favouring kiwis with stats being given as has being going on here in SA, the UK, Oz and even nz. Bok supports are fed up with this. Please dont think there is any chance at all of the abs being respected while they carry on their business like this. Their reputation is in tatters and will not mend until they clean up their act.That is regardless of any opinions expressed on this board. The cat is out of the bag and the genie out of the bottle - it cannot be put back.
Sorry I have little sympathy for their current predicament whereby they are being widely criticised for the way they go about their business, let them win fair and square and my attitude and those of many others might change.
Secondly, we have also seen lots of dismissive arrogance from their side (the hatters actually believe their own hype and think the record achieved through unfair practice supports their hype) so lets not get too pious about matters. How many close tests have been lost by us having double the yellows they have. Never mind any other stats that could be considered. We have been robbed blind by these rascals and so have other sides hence the widespread anger building up against the abs and against refs caving in to their manipulation. Why is that serial thug Nonu still around?
Thirdly is is great fun to wind up the pompous and arrogant kiwis. Allow us some fun whilst being robbed blind by their goings on.
Please no more sanctimonious drivel oaks. The abs always cave in to 80 minutes of physical confrontation. They know it and so do we.Do I respect the abs - a loud NO. No respect whatsoever. Zip. Their foundation is rotten. They must first clean up their act and we can revaluate.
Do I like their supporters here yes. A charming bunch of rogues with mostly a great sense of fun. However yours truly will not sucumb to the kiwi charm offensive of which Justin Marshall is an excellent example. No I want a fair contest and will settle for nothing less. So if sides opposing the kiwis get the short end of the straw and are being diddled out of the game they will most certainly hear about it from me for one.I take great pleasure from the current awareness that has emerged regarding kiwi malpractice. We might see a forced change due to pressure from the world rugby community. The kiwis are very thick skinned (As witnessed by their making Bryce lawrence their ref of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) and professional denialists and nothing but an effort by world rugby is going to force a change.In addition Oz and SA refs need to wake up and stop favouring these oaks for whatever reason they do.
See nuked kiwi trying to deny the professional fouls that were committed by the abs in the red zone to prevent Oz scoring. bwahahahhaha man it was there for the whole world to see. Talk about denialism!


BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Oct 2013, 09:57
#11
04 Oct 2013, 09:57#11
Snapster to beat the kiwis regularly we need fair competent refs and not the rubbish so often dished up by kiwi favouring refs. Please wake up. The kiwi record since our readmission is a myth. We were very disliked becau se of apartheid and this led also to a favouring of the kiwis. But here one senses the tide is changing and ab excesses have led to an anti ab sentiment arising. Nobody likes a crook!I am surprised you realise quota selections have not helped our cause given your penchant for favouring quota selections. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Oct 2013, 10:08
#12
04 Oct 2013, 10:08#12
 Please Mz saying you are either good enough or you are not is a ludicrous statement given the context. How good do you have to be to beat a bryce lawrence!!!!!!!!Or beat the abs with 14 men!!! Or beat them when receiving twice as many yellows. or beat them when they are not being blown up re infringements ala mcheat or red zone infringements.Why are so many around the rugby world so peeved at the goings on

Give us these advantages and would the abs ever win a test against us?
The abs test record is a myth based on cheating. They then have the cheek to argue folk are complaining simply because they are losing. We are complaining because the abs win through cheating. That is the problem. Its no use pussy footing around the issue and thankfully voices around the globe are being raised putting the finger on The problem. BAD NEWS INDEED FOR THE KIWI S

JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Oct 2013, 10:11
#13
04 Oct 2013, 10:11#13
Beano: listen to your olders. & bettors (Mozart & just_win)  you are burbling nonsense again, lol
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Oct 2013, 10:18
#14
04 Oct 2013, 10:18#14
 JW (at any cost) I am unmoved by your charm offensive!
Well s many have said (due of course to incompetent refs) lets hope we have one of those very rare tests against the abs where we get a fair deal.
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
04 Oct 2013, 10:48
#15
04 Oct 2013, 10:48#15
 Thats funny hasbean cos I was hoping the ABs enjoy one of those very rare tests where none of our players are deliberately maimed by a swinging forearm, wandering fingers or butting heads. We can only hope but given all the tension building in the Republic having gone for soooooo long without a win over the Darkness, I'm concerned the Boks may fall victim to their own excited anticipation and suffer the shame of premature emasculation.   Oh dear, now wouldn't that be a crying shame.  

BR
BrycyPro4,671 posts
04 Oct 2013, 11:31
#16
04 Oct 2013, 11:31#16

 Bean Brain it's only about 5oclock in the morning in SA and you're already frothing at the mouth.

Don't tell me it's that reoccuring nightmare about those dreaded All Blacks destroying the Springboks again.

Maybe putting on some relaxing music and a herbal tea will help.

I hear Cloudy knows a pyschiatrist that might be able to offer you some advice so you can cope better.

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
04 Oct 2013, 11:53
#17
04 Oct 2013, 11:53#17
 Brycy if ever I need a psychiatrist (Which will actually be never) I am sure the first people I will ask will indeed be Kiwis given their frequent usage etc!The time in SA was 7.42 when I made my first post not 5 am as you erroneously are suggesting. Each post has a time given brycy - hope that helps you. 

Now make yourself useful and ask your limp friend nuked kiwi to get over Bissie trackling wee dan too hard. Bwahahahahahahahaha. He also needs to know the darkness will always be overcome by the light.  Perhaps he will believe you.

AB
All Black NZClub Pro105 posts
04 Oct 2013, 13:10
#18
04 Oct 2013, 13:10#18
I don't like dealing in myths heres
6 Facts about the wee All Blacks

Biggest winning % in International Rugby
Most Trys in International Rugby
Most Wins in International Rugby
Most Points in International Rugby
Only team to score twice as many points than they have just conceded
Only team to have a better head to head over all opponents


Country Plyd Won Lost Draw Tries Conv. Pen. D/G Mark Pts For Pts Ag. Pts Diff Win %













All Blacks 506 384 104 18 1730 1117 1070 89 5 13275 6431 6844 75.89 South Africa 424 269 134 21 1195 780 855 96 1 9718 6531 3187 63.44 Romania 390 218 160 12 700 432 500 70 1 8596 7120 1476 55.90 Argentina 371 204 157 10 1420 893 762 89 1 10825 7059 3766 54.99 France 695 382 281 32 1623 955 1103 221 1 12537 10168 2369 54.96 England 665 356 259 50 1433 827 1066 137 4 10712 8132 2580 53.53 Wales 653 336 289 28 1409 819 1026 123 3 10781 9543 1238 51.45 Russia 243 125 113 5 363 217 285 27 0 5699 4814 885 51.44 Australia 556 282 258 16 1418 842 1087 80 2 11323 9282 2041 50.72 Poland 252 125 119 8 125 78 97 4 0 4262 4372 -110 49.60 W/Samoa 192 94 93 5 431 261 287 10 0 4069 4118 -49 48.96 Fiji 298 142 147 9 870 513 448 35 0 6129 6154 -25 47.65 Germany 301 136 156 9 248 131 152 16 0 4785 5224 -439 45.18 Canada 213 91 117 5 438 292 476 34 0 4321 5418 -1097 42.72 Spain 324 137 173 14 348 212 303 20 0 5869 7142 -1273 42.28 Scotland 625 264 329 32 1060 596 864 145 3 8098 8957 -859 42.24 Ireland 628 263 334 31 1084 628 875 102 3 8634 8719 -85 41.88 Italy 436 173 249 14 839 534 827 100 0 7531 9438 -1907 39.68 Portugal 234 92 129 13 252 161 288 26 0 3860 5182 -1322 39.32 Japan 292 114 169 9 1096 698 422 24 0 7865 8501 -636 39.04 Zimbabwe 132 51 81 0 264 145 191 11 0 3138 3485 -347 38.64 British & Irish Lions  108 40 58 10 167 84 155 26 2 1300 1507 -207 37.04 Tonga 232 85 142 5 490 285 253 7 0 4211 5299 -1088 36.64 USA 199 63 134 2 432 282 366 18 1 3797 5470 -1673 31.66
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
04 Oct 2013, 13:29
#19
04 Oct 2013, 13:29#19
 It's very difficult to argue with FACTS ABNZ, but no doubt Hasbeeno will have a theory!SA supporters arguing against this is like NZ supporters trying to say our cricket team is better than Australia's.....it's not right and probably never will be!Of all the Saffer posters on this site, only Mozart, Mike and Saffex seem to have a balanced view of where Bok rugby is at compared to the ABs. Apologies if I've left anyone else out who deserves a mention.As Saffex says, start crowing when the Boks have won a few straight against the ABs, not before!
BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
04 Oct 2013, 14:59
#20
04 Oct 2013, 14:59#20
Kiwis have been better , but the gap has closed and the cycle will take on a new face.  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
04 Oct 2013, 15:10
#21
04 Oct 2013, 15:10#21
keep up the optimistic attitude Buzz
 AB fans have waited a long time for Boks to be competitive, we will see the state of their development in this upcoming game. 
BU
BuzzClub Pro175 posts
04 Oct 2013, 17:40
#22
04 Oct 2013, 17:40#22
We were waiting for you guys to try win the WC again , so tou kept us waiting so long, its only best we return the favour buddy . lol  
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
05 Oct 2013, 01:15
#23
05 Oct 2013, 01:15#23
Buzz: We like to let the lesser teams have a shot at the RWC, can't be too greedy, not sportsman like & not good for the game.
— END OF THREAD —

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