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60:40 Quotas for Currie Cup, Super Rugby looking an immediate reality?

Started by sharkbok31 REPLIES447 VIEWS· 23 Apr 2014, 18:14
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
23 Apr 2014, 18:14
#1
23 Apr 2014, 18:14#1
Quotas for Currie Cup, Super Rugby?by Brenden Nel 23 April 2014, 12:41

The South African Rugby Union will discuss the reintroduction of the quota system into the local game as soon as next month in order to align itself with the demands made by the Minister of Sport surrounding transformation in the game.

SARU president Oregan Hoskins told supersport.com that the sport will need to make “radical, drastic, immediate changes” to comply with the pressure being brought upon it by the Sports Ministry after Saru and other federations met with the government regarding the proposed changes, including a possible reintroduction of quotas into the Absa Currie Cup and Vodacom Super Rugby competitions.

But Hoskins has committed rugby to embracing the changes, and will see them as 'a positive' – even though they may not be ideal in the short term.

Minister Fikile Mbalula threatened to withhold permission for sporting federations to compete internationally if there was not a 60-40 split between black and white players in future representative teams, saying the pace of transformation was too slow among sporting federations.

Hoskins said that rugby “doesn’t have a choice but to comply” and committed all 14 provincial unions and Saru to “meet the challenges as rugby and tackle it head on” to make South Africa proud as a nation.

“With the amount of pressure that we are under now by the Minister of Sport to change at the highest level, we’ve been told in no uncertain terms that there needs to be a radical, drastic and immediate change,” Hoskins told supersport.com

“The only way we can effect change is to use the quota system even more extensively than we currently do. This is not the optimum way to transform, it a short-term measure and there is no other way to change representation in teams in the immediate short-terms.

“While it may not be perfect, and not be optimum, there is no other way we can meet the demands of the Minister of Sport and seriously implement transformation in the Absa Currie Cup and at franchise level.

“We’ve been put under serious threat by government, and we don’t really want to have government intervening in sport. It’s not good for the game, so we have no alternative as a federation but to look at quotas in our senior ranks.”

Hoskins, who did his thesis on transformation in rugby and why the sport loses so much black talent, says rugby needs to break the “glass ceiling” that currently exists for black players.

“There is a glass ceiling for black players,” Hoskins adds, “I’ve researched this in doing my MBA, I’ve spoken to all players across the board and there are a whole lot of reasons why players don’t make itincluding coaching and administrators’ perceptions of their abilities and coaches not having the confidence in players in a particular position.”

Hoskins says though that there should not be a quota at national level, with the Springbok team still being picked solely on merit. The Saru president will report back on his meetings with the Minister of Sport in the next Exco and President’s forum meetings – set for the next month and expects Saru to embrace the challenge set out by government.

If enough players come through the ranks, then Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer will have a great deal more to choose from on merit in making the national side representative of the country as a whole.

“We will be meeting very soon and as Saru we will be embracing these topics. It is a huge challenge but we believe rugby can meet these challenges. We introduced a quota system at Vodacom Cup level and we’ve already seen a new era of players coming through the ranks there. We’ve seen the same in the recent Cell C Community Cup as well.

“I want to underline the fact that we will meet these challenges. These are serious threats but as rugby we will meet the challenge. We are not worried about other federations and we will tackle it head on and do the best we can to make the whole of South Africa proud.

“At the end of the day we have to work within the framework of government. We don’t have a choice. We are loyal South Africans who love our country and love rugby and we will make it work. I have a commitment from all 14 unions of mine – not one union does not subscribe and we will be united, and work together.

“Rugby already excels in so many areas – in good corporate governance, in sponsorship and financially. Our only challenge is transformation. We don’t want to look at it negatively, we have a lot more going for us and we are part of a wonderful family of rugby in our community. We have our challenges like everyone else, but we will use the solid foundation laid by those in the sport before us, and are proud of all 14 unions. I t is a privilege and an honour to be part of the SA Rugby family.”

While Vodacom Super Rugby is part of international agreements, Hoskins adds that the introduction of a possible quota into the second tier competition would not affect these agreements at all.

“I think our partners in Australia and New Zealand fully understand our transformation imperatives in bringing in such a system. I don’t agree that it would necessarily weaken the teams, to the contrary it would possibly add a new dimension to the competition.”

Saru introduced a quota system this year to the Vodacom Cup after its own mechanisms determined that the number of black players in rugby were declining.

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
23 Apr 2014, 18:19
#2
23 Apr 2014, 18:19#2
When are the elections in South Africa? 
Are these changes going to be implemented before or after the elections? 
I think either way, they are going to be in place soon. 
Perhaps in 4 years time the election story will be an 80:20 split.

I wonder what Sanzar/Super XV are making of this. It could really weaken the tournament even further that what having 15 teams in it allready has.

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
23 Apr 2014, 18:23
#3
23 Apr 2014, 18:23#3
 Unfortunately for sport this is just another election ploy employed by the ANC.
These guys will never ever be satisfied until they have done to sport what they have already done to RSA.
I do not care what colour represents the SA sport teams as long as the selection is done on merit.
Agree with Saffex and Clevermike's comments on a similar blog.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
23 Apr 2014, 19:24
#4
23 Apr 2014, 19:24#4
To an extent this is SA rugby's fault. If they had spent more time and money developing the game at the most junior levels, the black players would be making their way through the ranks all the way to the top level. 
Equally, government is so busy alienating the black population against "white" sports, that it is no surprise that there is a complete lack of interest.
How many black or previously disadvantaged primary schools and high schools even offer rugby as an option. There is only soccer. Why would these kids be interested in a sport that for them, does not exist? 
Lastly, with the exception of a few idiots stuck in the past, white people are perfectly happy for a player of any colour to represent the team they support, as long as they are there on merit. 
Develop the game properly and the rest will take care of itself.  
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2014, 19:35
#5
23 Apr 2014, 19:35#5
It will be the end of SA rugby   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 20:36
#6
23 Apr 2014, 20:36#6

Lets see;

 

Mvovo

JP

de Jongh

Jean

Habana

Fransie

F du Preez

Beast 

Bismarck

Nyakane

Kolisi

Etzebeth

Flip Flop

Carr

Vermeulen

 

There's a majority of non white players  and not the end....I think that team still beats most everybody. Pity about Willie....this new rule could be his death knell.

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
23 Apr 2014, 20:39
#7
23 Apr 2014, 20:39#7
with SA 60/40 plan looking more and more likely, it might not be a bad thing if SANZAR did break up after this round of spXV comes to an end in 2015.

one of the main perks SA provides the NZ rugby empire, is that theres no better stone to sharpen our players then the saffas in SA.
if the saffa teams are going to be nothing but this 60/40 joke, it would be better for NZ and the aussies to consolidate their efforts in a more timezone freindly torunament involving japan and the PI.

but maybe the NZRU and ARU could help SARU out a bit and make some noise???
media is everything these days, and if two prominent organizstions like the NZRU and ARU threaten to break up SANZAR after its current deal comes to an end, it might put a bit of pressure on the ANC to back the F off.

tough break for SARU, but i do like blueboks comments, its a possibility that shows that there is possibility of light in the dark 60/40 tunnel.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 20:44
#8
23 Apr 2014, 20:44#8
Then chicken out Sushi....what better moment to put the knife in and turn it.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
23 Apr 2014, 20:56
#9
23 Apr 2014, 20:56#9
@mozter,

nice team, but what could u come with if forced to select players 25 years and under???
cos the immediate future of SA rugby is looking kak in that reagrds.

the Boks are right now getting owned by the All Blacks in south africa, we beaten the Boks more times in SA during the pro era.
that record is going to become a one way street from now on, for the first time All Blacks will be in a position that we dont need to play our strongest team, only a team strong enough to beat the 60/40.

All Blacks team named to play mozters 60/40 Boks,,,

1 ben franks, 2 dane coles, 3 charlie faumuina

4 jeremy thrush, 5 brodie retallick

6 steven luatua, 8 keirean read, 7 king richie (c)

9 aaron smith, 10 daniel carter

12 ryan crrotty, 13 israel dagg

11 julian savea, 15 charles piutau, 14 ben smith

16 rhys marshall, 17 joe moody, 18 owen franks, 19 sam whitelock, 20 liam messam, 21 brynn hall, 22 beauden barret, 23 maa nonu
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
23 Apr 2014, 20:58
#10
23 Apr 2014, 20:58#10
Its not so much the now, its more the future. Introduce a 60:40 and every white player will head overseas  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:08
#11
23 Apr 2014, 21:08#11
I don't think so, people put up with amazing stuff to stay where they are comfortable....already have in fact.  
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:08
#12
23 Apr 2014, 21:08#12
@mozter,

its not chickening out, its doing whats best for NZ rugby as a whole.
if we cant play SA best teams, then why would we want to play with SA???
if 60/40 does happen, then SA has nothing to offer but cash.

this could be the push we need to get into the lucrative japenese market and also give the PI's a team for them to all get behind.
NZ can do more for the PI's even though we already do more for them then the rest of the world combined.

All Blacks playing against a 60/40 Boks team would be no offence to olecruz, about as exciting as playing against the pumas. its never been the opposition of that caliber that makes it a must see, it was a chance to watch  the All Blacks in a test that made it worthwhile.
playing against the Boks though, especially in SA, like ive said many times beofre, it beats any RWC tournament easy.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:10
#13
23 Apr 2014, 21:10#13
But look on the bright side Dave, Moojati might be recalled and for once in your life you could say: " moz I told you he would play for the Boks again" 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:12
#14
23 Apr 2014, 21:12#14
Sushi I think the team I named, properly coached, could beat your jokers  
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:13
#15
23 Apr 2014, 21:13#15
good point from saffex, lots of saffas showing up in other countries.
60/40 quota will cause not only a number of players to go overseas, but they will end up strengthening the international teams too.

hmmmmmmmm, SANZAR have expressed interest in a super rugby team in argentina, maybe  it could be made up of a lot of the white saffas who are going to miss out on a chance for higher SA honours???
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:34
#16
23 Apr 2014, 21:34#16
This will self perpetuate. 
More of the better players leave because they cant get chosen on merit and make a decent career if they are not in the 40%. 
As more players leave, the fans will also lose interest because their teams become less competitive. 

This will cause viewership to decline, and also sponsorship to become less. 
With declining sponsorship, even more players (of all colours) will leave.
The Rand currency will weaken further, more players will leave. 

SANZAR will lose interest in South Africa because they will no longer have the fan base, revenue or player resources. 
Even more players will leave as their is no longer a SuperXV career, and the Curry Cup will weaken. 
The ANC will have achieved their goal of having a team that is mostly non-white with no sponsorship, competitions or supporters. 


MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
23 Apr 2014, 21:44
#17
23 Apr 2014, 21:44#17
Reading the Citizen report the Minister says he won't be imposing quotas. This will be a modest window dressing thing, designed to boost the Minister. Just the usual self serving hypocrisy.  
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Apr 2014, 01:56
#18
24 Apr 2014, 01:56#18
 I agree with sasSUE, Kick Sa out if we dont select on merit.Moz your side would get slaughtered and you know it.
Saffex is right this would spell the end of Sa rugby. One hopes the international community would expel SA for its racist policies.Take more interest in Golf and Tennis oaks.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
24 Apr 2014, 02:03
#19
24 Apr 2014, 02:03#19

No HasBeen Dave's young guns would get slaughtered. That side of mine would do ok. In fact better than ok.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2014, 02:33
#20
24 Apr 2014, 02:33#20
Moz your sides replicate that of our conservative coach........you big on coming second?
BO
bobbok...Captain10,129 posts
24 Apr 2014, 02:44
#21
24 Apr 2014, 02:44#21
NZ & Aus. wouldn't accept it anyway, probably kill the comp, ffs. they're having enough trouble get bums on seats when our current teams come to town .... what hope a weakened lot, there to appease another appalling politician ?
NU
nukefreekiwiClub Pro441 posts
24 Apr 2014, 10:30
#22
24 Apr 2014, 10:30#22
 Just one more good reason why NZ and Oz should ditch SA and develop a new competition elsewhere. This kind of political interfering will continue to dilute the quality of Super Rugby and scare off future sponsors. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
24 Apr 2014, 11:24
#23
24 Apr 2014, 11:24#23
The following i the latest report on the issue:-
"A 60-40 quota favouring black players would not be imposed on anybody, Sport Minister Fikile Mbalula said in Pretoria on Wednesday after meeting three minority groups.

“Talking is not endless, but we need to find each other. I am not imposing any 60-40 onto anybody. I've talked to the federations,” Mbalula said after a meeting with lobby group AfriForum, trade union Solidarity and the Freedom Front Plus.

The meeting followed an announcement that quotas would be imposed before the May 7 national elections.

“I am not going to sit as a minister in government and ignore South Africans that have concerns about the positions we've taken.”

Mbulula said he had an obligation to everyone.

“That is why I am happy about this meeting. At least I know what to do next.”

On April 5, the SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (Sascoc) and Mbalula announced far-reaching measures to address the lack of transformation and development, as indicated by a pilot study on the status of transformation in sport.

The respective organisations welcomed the meeting with the minister and said more talks would be held to find a solution to the glaring differences in opinion on the quota system.

AfriForum CEO Kallie Kriel said while he appreciated the robust discussions, the three bodies made it clear that they were against a race-based quota system.

“We believe it is negative to the dreams of young people. They feel discriminated against, black and white,” Kriel said.

“Where a child is not chosen because a team has to adhere to a quota system, we believe that is a form of racial discrimination that infringes on the dignity of young people of our country.”

Kriel said AfriForum would report South African sports bodies to international sports authorities should they yield to racial quota pressures.

He said international sporting bodies prohibited any form of racial discrimination and government interference in sport.

Solidarity's executive officer Dirk Hermann said a quota system in any shape and form was unlawful. The Constitution did not allow for quotas, and the Employment Equity Act prohibited it, he said.

“We get the feeling that unions (sport federations) are forced to act unlawfully if you force them to apply quotas,” he said.

“This undermines the Constitutional state and we ask thus for the minister not to continue with unlawful quota practices."

I think this was  an election gimmick that backfired - so I do not think anything is going to happen. 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Apr 2014, 11:43
#24
24 Apr 2014, 11:43#24
Kriel is entirely correct. Should the racist anc government try to implement this SA MUST be banned by the international community and internally be taken to court. In fact the anc should be taken to court for its many racist policies.
Moz the abs would put 70 points against your side. Three of the pack are nowhere near international standard and neither is De Jongh. This is a matter of principle and there should be no accomodation of this blatant racism.The fact is also if this quopta system was applied at Super 15 level not only is it racist but it would mean our sides losing by huge margins. 
It would be helpful if Oz and Nz showed some guts and said a loud NO. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Apr 2014, 11:51
#25
24 Apr 2014, 11:51#25
Mike wake up. We are dealing with a bunch of racist who would like nothing better than to implement such a scheme. It's what they want and is not merely an election gimmick. If it does not go ahead it's because they cant do it.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Apr 2014, 12:01
#26
24 Apr 2014, 12:01#26
 Personally I would support any team playing against the quota Boks - including the wee abs. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
24 Apr 2014, 12:03
#27
24 Apr 2014, 12:03#27
 Who would go and watch quota super 15 and Currie cup matches?
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
24 Apr 2014, 16:36
#28
24 Apr 2014, 16:36#28

If I was Meyer.......I'd be awarding the following players Bok caps over the next 12 months, thereby securing their services for the Boks over the next few years regardless of whether they went and played overseas because of a quota policy:

 

Fullbacks: SP Marais, Visser, Jessie Kriel, EW Viljoen, Ulrich Beyers, Andries Coetzee

 

Wings: v/d Heever, Duan v/d Merwe

 

Centres: de Allende, Jordaan, Esterhuizen, Pat Howard, Frans Venter, Sadie, Dries Swanepoel, Rohan Janse v Rensburg, Stokkies Hanekom, Watermeyer, Heimar Williams, Tyler Fisher, Daniel Kriel, Kobus v/Wyk, Piet Lindique, Small-Smith, Whitehead

 

Flyhalves: Swiel, Boshoff, Zielinga, Catrakillis, Pollard, Potgieter

 

Scrumhalves: de Klerk, Groom, Reinach, Schrauder

 

Props: Kitshoff, Frik Kirsten, Marcel v/d Merwe, Morne Mellet, Maks v/Dyk, Thomas du Toit, Kebble, Rossouw de Klerk, Chadwick

 

Hookers: Cooper, Callie Visagie, Malcolm Marx

 

Locks: Lood, Jacques du Plessis, Willemse, Peet Marais, Jandre Marais, Lewies, Mostert, Ruan Botha, Bresler, Quinn Roux, Oosthuizen

 

Loosies: Labascagne, Rhodes, Deon Fourie, v/d Walt, Kriel, Britz, Hattingh, Ross, Wimpie v/d Walt, Prinsloo, Cook, Whiteley, CJ Stander

 

 

Give them all 5min off the bench and with it a Bok cap and security for the future!!

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
24 Apr 2014, 22:37
#29
24 Apr 2014, 22:37#29
.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
24 Apr 2014, 22:40
#30
24 Apr 2014, 22:40#30
Saffex if you were Meyer, you would not be a rugby coach, but a potatoe farmer.
You are just too stupid to understand that each level is a step up.
School- Under21- Open division- Vodacom- Curry Cup- SuperXV- International
All players have weaknesses, and each level higher these weaknesses get more and more exposed. 

Each level up players drop off. Either they are not fast enough, too small, not enough skills, etc, etc, etc.
The open division is the best 18 year olds to the best 36 year olds, not just a 2 year difference like at age group level.
You see a player doing well at under21 level or Curry Cup level, and just assume these same players will have the same form at a higher level. 
This is often not the case, as has been proven over and over. Even a super XV level, many players do well with man of the match performances, but just cant step up to the next level of being internationals

You are talking about capping the most amount of players ever in one year, players that have not been standouts at SuperXV level yet, or perhaps never will be. What a joke, the self proclaimed Messiah of South African Rugby.

How could this be securing the future, because these players have short careers.T he under 19 team would be playing for the Bok senior squad untill they are 21, and then they would be replaced by the next batch on 19 year olds (who have mostly proved nothing at senior level). 

If only the coaching staff at all of the unions could get you onboard, or even just as a national selector, or even a talent scout where you could build a squad of the top 1000 players, for a 15 man starting team.



SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
25 Apr 2014, 02:36
#31
25 Apr 2014, 02:36#31
 Twatbok, what exactly is a potatoe you fucking idiot?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
25 Apr 2014, 07:54
#32
25 Apr 2014, 07:54#32
— END OF THREAD —

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