A huge yawn greets the JJ departure

The departure of Willie has launched a few articles. But JJ not so much. In fact the most contentious debates have taken place on this site. For the rest of the world it's all been a big yawn...obviously most observers see this robotic sprinter as  an inadequate  Bok 13.

Mozart

I am not really worried about the departure of Engelbrecht.  That is not the huge yawn at all you make it out to be.   The huge yawn and continuous yawns -  an 80 minute series  at that - is the reintroduction of the dead backline syndrome of the 2010 - 2012 years.  

Meyers selection now represents the worst backline combination insofar as attacking backline play is concerned since the deadly inefficient one playing in 2010-11.  If you study the form and lack of attacking ability  of 4 of the 7 backline players involved tomorrow you will soon find out the background to the "cancer" involved.            

Mozart

Studying the form and performance of the players concerned, the four are the following:-

1  Morne Steyn - poor attacking flyhalf

2  JP Pietersen - Excellent defender - average in attacking play - slow for a wing

3  Jacque Fourie - no playmaker - low try scoring ratio against stronger opposition - slowish spedwise

4   Fourie du Preez - no show in last two tests 

Please note that the last three players are all playing in the soft Japanese club league and judging by the performances of other returnees test and Super 15 have shownm deterioration after their return  compared to their previous performances.  

   *  Pietersen goes through whole series of games without scoring of tries - so there is very little one can expect in his case in the form of attacking play in any event.  

   *  Du Preez had two average test performances in the full tests he played in in the CR when starting - seemingly ran out of steam in the AB test

   *   Fourie is an unknown - but likely to be less effective than he was in 2011 - when he showed near to nothing insofar as attacking play is concerned.        

 Boklogic

Have no argument about the defence issue - but the weakest defender of the lot who played in the Ellis Park test is still in the team - Morne Steyn being the case.    There are others who missed tackles - but he missed 3 tackles resulting in tries being scored - the others - bar Engelbrecht -  missed less critical tackles.  

And rightly so, Mozart.

People tend to complain when something special is either set aside or lost but that which is of no account is soon forgotten.

Willie is special. JP knows this. It may lift his game.

JJ is as you said … a yawn. Either way, Jaque needs to produce and I really hope he does … even if it’s only to keep the useless JJ off the pitch. 

The mere fact that Meyer needs to go through the process of putting various players to the test has whooshed over Mike’s head … as does most things. Somehow this concept is beyond him.

Loved your copier comment. So apt.

Ooops!!! It seems I’ve gone and done it again.

Now if only I had a few breath mints around.

Cleancut

It does not go over my head as you said.   I do accept that Meyer is looking at the players concerned - he has to based on their reputations - but whether that is going to help in the long run is indeed questionable.

I merely mean that it was historically in 20100 and 2011 never an effective backline combination from an attacking perspective and there are no reason to believe that the situation should change tomorrow.

Will JP be able to up his game - a really serious question that one?   He is an exceptional defender - but has with one rare exception never since the WC in 2007 really produced the goods to suggest that he is an effective attacking player.   

Cleancut

Why bring in De Villiers - everyone knows that he was not a coach's backside - the team and the coaching was run by the senior players in the team and there was even discord amongst them - Smit was retained as a captain and Mattfield wanted the job. 

Meyer did not have a good start as a coach and he himself admitted that he made poor selections during 2012.   Maybe he was forced into it - because of his familiarity with the Bulls players and his over-reliance on some players from other franchises who did not produce the goods - causing the results last year to be less favourable than they should have been.

He had a much better selection strategy this year - and I do not doubt his passion for the game at all.   I have been extremely critical of some of his selections last year - and much less so this year - matter of fact it was at least five months ago that I really wrote anything really critical about him.  The players where I had serious question marks about - were the same that contributed in a major way to the Ellis Park loss.   In general I liked what I saw in general in performances this year.

The "But" you emphasized has no relation to the selection strategy of Meyer - it refers  to the ability of the players to turn around their performance history and the chances of success by the players.     BUT I STILL HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT ENGELBRECHT AND ALWAYS HAD THE FEELING THAT HE HAS DEFENCE DEFICIENCIES AND IS A ONE-DIMENSIONAL PLAYER.

Rather put the BUT with that perspective in mind.   

Robotic, now that is a joke.........if the way he beat Savea and Cruden was robotic then you need your eyes tested Moz........robotic will be Fourie at 13 against Wales....watch this space.

The dropping of Willie and JJ is nothing short of pathetic conservatism by Meyer and confirms the man is the wrong coach for the Boks  

  Saffex

I have a problem with aspects of Engelbreht's game - but those can be changed for the better and does not necessarily agree with Mozart's negativism on him.   With extremely rare exceptions, Mozart just hates players when they are younger than 25 so we know whence it is coming.

To my mind Engelbrecht has the opportunity to show us in Super 15 next year that he belongs and that he can overcome the few question marks I raised.   However, the only robotic player in the team tomorrow is Morne Steyn and as he did in the Ellis Park test - he will fail tomorrow as well.   

I still do not trust the Japanese club players returnees.

Xtramick

I know what you are referring to in respect of Pietersen  in the tests last year and specifically in the tests against the English - where he scored two tries.   The one was really spectacular and resulted in a 50 meter run breaking a number of tackles - whereafter he was tackled and the ball recovered and passed to De Villeirs - who in turn passed the ball to Pietersen for him to score a try.   The next one was when Pienaar passed the ball directly to him - missing out the destructive Morne - and Pietersen scored  his second try of the series.   For the rest he was in reality unproductive during tests last year.

There can be no doubt that for a variety of reasons Pietersen is not really good in attacking rugby.   If a wing scores no tries in the whole of the Super 15 series - it does show some deficiencies in that aspect of his game and that happened at least twice over the past 5 years.

Problem is that Pietersen never really looks for work - if the ball comes to him and there is a chance with deficient defence - he would take it.   Otherwise - unlike Habana - he would venture nothing at all.   I give him huge credit or his superb defence - but have over the past 7 years  not seen enough of him as an attacking player to rate him higher than average. 

One wonders what negative impact his Japan Club contract may have on him - I do not think that he would come back a better player than he as in the past and would like to see what he can produce in future.  

Cleancut

Don't do it - your minute little  brain may get affected by the unnecessary smashing of your head against the wall.    

OOM you name four players as not being attacking threats: F du Preez, JP, Fury and Morne. These are the Boks leading try scorers over their entire history:

When i saw the Name Sun-Tzu i was expecting the Art of war , not Egg art, but the pictures do speak volumes for some of the posts made in this thread.

CleanCut , how have you been ? still fighting fit ?.  

CleanCut , how have you been ? still fighting fit ?.  

CleanCut, I havent the strength or will power to post in forums as regularly as others, but when i find a spot of time i like to drop in and see whats being discussed. Big weekend ahead , so taken some time off to marinade the meat and pack the fridge.

and of course , spend some time chatting rugby. Had a browse through some other threads , and have passed on the info to Groendakkies, they are coming to collect a bunch of posters from here.

How is the training going, seems like you may need to be fighting fit as it appears there are members here that like a good "roll your sleeves up and taste my knuckles "  

Cant be doing the Dry Red, turns me into a hoodlum ! , i would turn up here and turn the furniture upside down

i find it hard to turn furniture over when I am laying on my face, so I will skip the shorts, but tall glass , ice and a quality drink and I am fine.

So whats been the level of chat here , see its still inundated with our Kiwi friends , and a few that are still awaiting evolution to catch up.

 theres you perfect Christmas gift then , a lifesize cardboard cut out of your cheery self for all the clamouring fans here.

Christmas , baahumbug ! , yeah i will be taking some time off , not enough though. That leaves me sitting in a tree shooting the neighbours kids with a BB gun while swigging on some rather ghastly christmas brew some unknown distant family member gifted me.

Mozart

Nice stats on tries scored - but the four players mentioned  had so many tests that the scoring rate of tries was very low and most players you mentioned played in a backline that can never be regarded as top attacking backlines.   7 0% of the tries scored were against weak opposition - you yourself moaned about Fourie on that score in the past.

You cannot deny that over the last five years in two years Pietersen never scored a single try in Super 15 and also had no try assists.  

The issue here is not mathematical - it is practical.   These four backline players all played in the backline  in 2011  and 2012 - that did not produce any backline attacks - so will tomorrow be any different? 

Mike,

last season (2012 ) it was JP  who held the Sharks backline together, his leadership was instrumental in creating some form of positive vibe within the team.