FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  A non fiction Sharks/Cheetahs account....it was only selection

A non fiction Sharks/Cheetahs account....it was only selection

Started by Mozart29 REPLIES384 VIEWS· 08 Jul 2014, 22:23
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2014, 22:23
#1
08 Jul 2014, 22:23#1

Playing in Bloem, with the Cheetahs home swan song for many players....the Sharks put in the kids. Big mistake. From the moment the manne like Alberts, Bismarck and  Jannie arrived the game flipped.

 

The real problem was Swiel who missed touch, made a pathetic tackle attempt on the van der Walt try, and threw hospital passes all night long.....eg at minute 69.50. And he was caught in possession a few times and turned to stop the half. His lack of leadership at 10 was clear.

 

Opposite him Goosen relied on the boot....and he kicked very well, as did Fransie. Frans brought some good tackling and traffic running into the mix as well. His tackle on Sadie in space for example, after Sadie made a good cut.

 

JP is getting better and better at 13 and is a handful....he made one searing break. I would think HM is happy.

 

 

The fullbacks were both excellent....with Marais gaining a monumental 139 metres. He was every bit as good as Willie on the night.

 

Reinach must be the best running scrumhalf on the planet. He certainly put Willie and a disappointingly hesitant Hendricks to the sword. Sadly, as good as his running game is....his general scrumhalf play is poor with awkward blunders into the ruck, low passes and poorly directed kicks. Once again, when McLeod came on the Sharks became more fluid. Reinach is a long way from AB ready.

 

The Cheetahs maul was tremendous....but why were  Coetzee and Deysel spectators. Coetzee was also culpable in the Lood try. Once again in tough matches he is not the answer. He can run somewhat in space, not in traffic.

 

Coenie once again was a disaster....totally dominated at the end by young du Toit, who looks useful.

 

Lood had a fine game, but Lewies did not. Lood had a few lineout hiccups....the feed at minute 10.50 went right through his hands. And on another occasion he couldn't get the ball down and the Sharks lost it. He did, however, make a good steal at minute 59.34....using one hand to slap it away. A good effort from the big fella, but I think Willemse is the better of these young locks. It's a pity he is lost.

 

And the Cheetahs loosies were better than the Sharks till the power arrived. Deysel, by the way, had a shocker.

 

This was a missed opportunity for the Sharks....things don't get easier against the Stormers. They have to start Frans at 10....you can't have a kid learning his lines in the S15.

MA
MachiavelliClub Pro323 posts
08 Jul 2014, 22:32
#2
08 Jul 2014, 22:32#2
 Well put Mozart. Some players are just hyped up and totally overrated,  like Coenie. Jake also did an excellent job of shooting himself in the foot with his approach to the game. Tim Zwiel is an absolute disaster in defence. 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jul 2014, 22:36
#3
08 Jul 2014, 22:36#3
 Coenie is a scrumming disaster. Young Loodt was outstanding. Van der Walt also very good.JP as I have been saying will make avery good 13 and lacks the pace of an international class winger.Agree re Marais who had a fine game. Willie was quiet and was taking a rest.Reinach is exceptionally dangerous and must be considered for the Boks given Du Preez is out. Will he start? Pienaaar passive. Sweil looks very promising and must be given time off the bench etc. He has an eye for the gap and superb reaction skills. Managage the youngster properly. Goosen has a prodigious boot and had a pretty good game. Coetzee was industrious but was Kan kan playing? Deysel a bit rusty? Lewies also tried hard. Bresler also rusty.Yes that young sharks prop got the better of Coenie!!  Snaspster needs to realise Coenie has a problem and JJ is a wing. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
08 Jul 2014, 22:48
#4
08 Jul 2014, 22:48#4
Swiel will benefit from the CC....he is playing as if he has more time. On one occasion while he was dithering Benjamin ran over him. 
I was wondering whether Reinach has always been a scrummie....he looks a bit like Vlouvaart out there. Clumsy. I doubt he can start a RC at this stage Hasbeen, but he would be a possible bench option.
Welcome Machiavelli.....when did we see you last? On Supersupporter?
MA
MachiavelliClub Pro323 posts
08 Jul 2014, 22:59
#5
08 Jul 2014, 22:59#5
 Nope, I did post here then got a bit bored with all the fighting and mole hunting. It does seem a bit better, more about the game and different opinions.  You see, we cannot always agree but there are civilised ways in debating differences.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
08 Jul 2014, 23:22
#6
08 Jul 2014, 23:22#6
Mole hunting was a nessessity. We went  through a period when there were a number of moles here from kamp SS. They were all whipped soundly and sent sqealing back to herr hawkeye for comfort. They have become fewer and fewer as the numbers on kamp ss have become fewer and fewer.
We still have a couple here now but they know the story and behave - or else!!. Unfortunately the few moles here are still afraid to give us their real names.
Anyhow enough about moles - they are an obnoxious and pesky bunch but we have a number of mole exterminators here so everything is well under control. 
How civilised was M achiavelli - his was a dog eat dog world with the ends justfying the means and power being everything.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jul 2014, 23:49
#7
08 Jul 2014, 23:49#7
 Mozart
Please delete the word non-fiction from your account, becase most of your deductions are indeed fiction.
Alberts did bugger-all all game long and was a complete nion-fasctor in the game - go and see his stats if you do not believe me.   You said he made a contribution - but I am still wondering what it was.   Please explain.
Swile did this =- Swiel that that - all wrong.  Steyn did nothing right - made no use of the balls passed to him - missed a tackle = but is praised to high heaven.  Swiel made a lot of passes thats et the outside backs going and they made many meters in space - but you do not realise that - now do you.   There was one try that ent a-beffing because Sithole knocked a ball on that was a 100% pass by Swiel.  Matter of fact Swiel got the line moving in attack - something Steyn never did.
Now lets look at kicking game of Fransie and Goosen.   You did not notice the difference - now do you?  Fransies kicks were aimless and mostly fielded with ease, resulting in counter-attacks or very effective return kicks.   Goosen's kicks were -well-aimed and constantly put the Sharks on the back foot or gained huge meters in territory.       
Now for Reinach - all the airy -fairy words - about low passes - running into rucks   poor service - how many times did it happen during the match - that cause all thast sing-song of yours"  Nice words - but the notes were false.   
Lood was the best lock this weekend in any  SA team - but Mozart find a case where he lost a line out.  The world came crashing down as a result accoiording to Mozart.  Started off that Lood had a fine game - but then went the way of all Mozart's day-dreams.  Any player being a threat to pap Matfield - must be written out of existence.   Lood had strong ball carries - something Ruan Botha had as well - while Matfield and Willemse had zilch of the sort.  Yet Matfield got praised to high heaven and now Willemse is the toast of the town.
I know you are a one-incident nit-wit - but the way you provide info on matches is so biased that a person can never believe a word you write because of your bias in favour of your favourite players.   If you must be honest - Steyn's contribution and that of Alberts was e near to zero - so why the praise-singing?      


  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
08 Jul 2014, 23:57
#8
08 Jul 2014, 23:57#8
 Mozart
I notice you spoke about defense and see that Swiel was run over by Hendriks and how poor his defense was.   I looked at the stats and he missed one tackle - you make it out that his defense was poor.   He should have stopped Van der Walt scoring the try - ha - bloody - ha.   The tacklers were in fact two and they could not stop that try.
Reinach is clumsy?  That really is a new one for us all.   The clumsy bugger is Steyn - really clumsy - and then we have the clumsiest of them all - Alberts.  
So Reinach l could be a threat to Pienaar - when it comes to selection for the RC? That the reason for the unbridled attack?   
     

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
09 Jul 2014, 00:44
#9
09 Jul 2014, 00:44#9

 

A very good article Mozart...must agree with the content and the implied context...don't always agree with you in fact most times but this time I go with this.

 

Well done boet...I hope Mike is humble enough to give you credit due...lolz

 

I find stats boring and a nemesis to accreditation to a game...anyway the paradox is that you are the mathematician...a fault no less and Mike is just the opposite ironically and uses stats to try and back his cause!

 

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
09 Jul 2014, 01:02
#10
09 Jul 2014, 01:02#10

 And Beeno is the season for mole hunting due...the kamp has so many parodies...I thought it appropriate to encourage Rooinek the expert mole hunter to give us an update and get his latest information to their latest devious and clandestine activities.

 

can I help with an update to their strategies...lolz

 

http://youtu.be/kBO5dh9qrIQ

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 01:19
#11
09 Jul 2014, 01:19#11
Actually Oom it was Benjamin who ran over Swiel...check my second post again Saaiman. And by the way, it was on attack, not on defence....he was dithering and Benjamin flattened him.
As for the rest of your carping old toppie, feel free. But your fantasy that it was Frans and  Alberts who lost the game is hilarious.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 06:32
#12
09 Jul 2014, 06:32#12
 Mozart
Your contention that i said the Frans and Alberts lost the game for the Sharks is hilarious.  I said that they produced ZERO positive and deserve no plaudits for their constructive contribution to the game  does not mean they caused the loss of the game - it merely adds to the lack of team ability to lose the game.   I asked you to explain the reason why they played as well as you implied that they did and there was no response to that.  So back to the same old story - praise songs trying to nullify zero contribution - blame other players,  the two saints made such a wonderful fictional contribution.   Perhaps if there was indeed anything positive from those two the match may have been won.
Mozart - the answer is no - the Sharks would not have won the game - they were beaten by a better strategy and by a more positive approach by the Cheetahs and by better control of the game, as well as contributions by individual players like Goosen, Van der Walt and De Jager - which you tried to discredit even before you posted that above fictional report.   What you ended up writing was to be expected.
So the game was lost and if they play Steyn at flyhalf on Saturday against the Stormers - I believe it will make NO Difference - that game will be lost as well.      
 
  
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 07:11
#13
09 Jul 2014, 07:11#13
So the contention that you said Frans  and Alberts lost the game is hilarious. Okay. Let's all have a good laugh. Here's what you said:
"The problem 2 I think guilty of that is Francois Steyn and Willem Albert.  Both were way below the required standard on Saturday."
"On balance the two players that really let the Sharks down were Alberts among the forwards and Steyn amongst the backs. "

 "Hell - but you are dim - Fransie played today and put in another pathetic and inept performance.  Stop living in the past - it does not help at present."Funny hey? Or at least it would be if it wasn't another   Oom lie. Seriously old boy, all kidding aside, your lying is the worst I have ever come across on a rugby board. I'm not talking about different views or different interpretations. That will always exist and it's part of the reason we post.
I'm talking about deliberate lying.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 07:31
#14
09 Jul 2014, 07:31#14
Mozart 
What did you quote that lads to your latest personal attack.   I asked why the praise singing about two players who contributed near to zero to the team efforts?   Both had sub-par games in my view and did nothing to turn the tables on the Cheetahs.   If they did produce the real goods and tell us what they did.
There is no deliberate lying involved here.   There is stating an indigestible truth year unacceptable to you. 
Steyn0/005/9/93600115/10/000/0

Alberts0/000/1/2400103/20/000/0
There could still be a minor degree of some positive in ball carries found in the case of Steyn - the contribution of  Alberts was sheer bullshit.    End of story unless you can find some real reason why I was wrong in my assessment.  
    
    
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 07:41
#15
09 Jul 2014, 07:41#15
We are just dealing with your lie at the moment...the one where you said the claim you blamed Frans and Alberts for the loss  is hilarious 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 07:59
#16
09 Jul 2014, 07:59#16
 Mozart
Your first quote of what I said I found nowhere in any of the comments above.  The third one neither - I might have said that under another thread.
However, what I said is not a lie - look at the stats and come back with your normal drivel bout how good they were.   I stick with my contributions - Steyn and Alberts were sub-par, but they both were sub-par this whole Super 15 - so what is new?
Steyn made a balls up when playing at 12 - so don't get hilarious about his positive contribution.  Just go and study his combined stats when he did play at 12 and compare that with any other 12 in any other franchise in Super 15.   

      
   
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 08:15
#17
09 Jul 2014, 08:15#17
I repeat we are dealing with your lie...not how they played. To refresh your memory which seems to be selective at best....you challenged the statement that you blamed Frans and Alberts for the loss.
All we have to look at is this:
"On balance the two players that really let the Sharks down were Alberts among the forwards and Steyn amongst the backs"
Game over.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 08:18
#18
09 Jul 2014, 08:18#18
 Mozrt
And I proved that they did let the Sharks down - game over. 
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jul 2014, 15:20
#19
09 Jul 2014, 15:20#19

Here we go again......what a load of bloody bullshit.

 

Swiel had a good game as confirmed by the commentators all evening. He attacks the gain line and never threw a single hospital pass - all his passes went to hand and put people into space. Both Swiel and Goosen were good on the night.

 

Coenie was good in the scrums all game and the only time the Cheetahs scrum failed was at the end of the game when Cayleb Oosthuizen replaced Nkanyane at loosehead......Moz if you actually knew your rugby you would pick up on this, but hey ho, its the same old predictable shit.......your anti certain players is becoming a little tiresome, why do you bother with supporting SA rugby at all?

 

Willemse better than Lood.......bwhaahaaaaaaaaa. Willemse is very good, but Lood is far, far better - its not even close.

 

Coetzee had another fine game, he was far better than say Schalk for the Stormers

 

The Sharks lost because Jake fucked up the selections by not starting with his strongest side

 

 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 16:50
#20
09 Jul 2014, 16:50#20
Dave you also thought Wales were going to beat the Boks and Jantjies was going to be a great flyhalf. The truth is Swiel was a hindrance, Coetzee was weak, Coenie was a disaster....Goosen was better, but all he did was play a kicking game. Lood had a good game....but we need to see him against better locks.....Lewies is overrated.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 17:06
#21
09 Jul 2014, 17:06#21
 So we need top see Lood against better locks - he played against the Welsh locks who out played both  Matfield and Bakkies in the tests comprehenmsively when he was on the field for half a game in the first test.  He was miles better than Pap Matfield in the Scottish test.  
Matfield at this stage is not only over-rated - he is totally over-rated by a 1000%.  Lood played against all the locks fro m Australia and New Zealand this year - but "we need to see him up against better locks".   What a load of BS again - but I will give you the opportunity to name the better locks you are twaddling about.
 Start thinking for a change before you drag up rubbish not supported by facts and post it on this site. .      
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 17:45
#22
09 Jul 2014, 17:45#22
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11623 Is Stade Francais trying to get rid of Morne Steyn
May 15, 2014, 15:31:02

A report and photo showed him together with the Paris St Germain Rugby Club and he himself posted the photo.   Could be - because he was a serious and very expensive flop for Stade Francais.


As I understand it both Stade Francais and Paris st Germain at one stage  belonged to the same owner - and the article on the issue quoted them as sister clubs.  


However, Paris St Germain is not a Top 14 club and it seems that they are a second level club with no representation in the French international team.  


If this arrangement proceeds I believe it would be a massive comedown for Steyn - a second level club in France and he is he to be considered for the Springbok team?   That would be a disgrace and I hope it does not happen.     

 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 18:12
#23
09 Jul 2014, 18:12#23

This from Rugby 24

 

"Former Western Province under-21 player Tim Swiel played against the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein last week, but he has failed to really make full use of his opportunities in the Sharks jersey this season and it would be a massive gamble for White to stick with him for a Newlands clash with the Stormers."

 

So I'm wondering, if Swiel is dropped for Newlands....will Dave and the Oom realize they were completely wrong about Swiel's performance against the Cheet ahs. Or will they attack Jake White....it's a lock that they will attack moz.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jul 2014, 18:27
#24
09 Jul 2014, 18:27#24

Wrong I never said Wales would beat us, I said we were a shit side and the Welsh proved that in the second test..........and confirmed just what a smack the Aussies and Kiwi's are going to give us.

 

 

You can quote me on this one - we will lose all 4 tests against Oz and NZ this year.

 

 

As per usual your takes are utter rubbish........Swiel was good, Coetzee has been great for some time now, Coenie dominated and if you think Lewies is overrated that just confirms how poor you are when it comes to player assessment - I mean look no further than rating Morne, or wanting Frans at 10 or rating de Jongh, but best of all Adi Jacobs over Fourie.......that is worse than Beenkop and his anti Matfield in his prime.

 

 

Moz your take on players is very, very poor......you hardly ever get them right........you remind me of a conservative Dutchie in charge of the game.......you like the bog ordinary or the washed up hasbeens  

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 18:36
#25
09 Jul 2014, 18:36#25

Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8089

RE: Geriatrics aren't the scary thing about Saturday
June 13, 2014, 08:39:59

Destroyli has stuff all to do with it......Meyer is cocking up in a big way and I'm going to take great joy in saying I told you so  

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
09 Jul 2014, 19:05
#26
09 Jul 2014, 19:05#26
Yes Moz post the RC is what that relates to - try again  
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
09 Jul 2014, 19:58
#27
09 Jul 2014, 19:58#27
 Saffex
Because of Mozart's statements I watched the game again.  Lets take his statement apart and see what he has to say about the various players:-
"From the moment the manne like Alberts, Bismarck and  Jannie arrived the game flipped."
After  "die ManneP" came on the Sharks scpored a total of 7 points - with the starting line up they scored 13 points and was at oene stage even in the lead.    Alberts put in a pathetic performance - they might as well have played with 14 players - for all that he was worth.

"The real problem was Swiel who missed touch, made a pathetic tackle attempt on the van der Walt try, and threw hospital passes all night long.....eg at minute 69.50. And he was caught in possession a few times and turned to stop the half. His lack of leadership at 10 was clear."

 

This one contained a string of outright lies and misrepresentations.   Swiel was only peripherally invioolved in the tackle of Van der  Walt.  The tacklers were Deysel and Cooper.  Those two could not stop van der Walt = but Swiel gets the blame.    Swiel never threw hospital passes 3ever furing the whole game and that is an outright lie.  There was no instances where his "lack of leadership" was in evidence.   


Swiel in fact inititated a number of attacking moves and was involved in two such moves as well where he handled  balls more than once in such moves.  The one time he made a line break he tried to off-load the ball to Francois Steyn - who promptly knocked it on.


"Sadly, as good as his running game is....his general scrumhalf play is poor with awkward blunders into the ruck, low passes and poorly directed kicks. Once again, when McLeod came on the Sharks became more fluid. Reinach is a long way from AB ready."


The issue about low passes and poor service was just an outright lie.   H never made one poorly directed kick during th whole game - another lie.   When Mclead came on the Sharks became fmore fluid - another lie.   One would not expect that type of lies from anybody.  It is obvious there is an ulteriror reason for the lies - the potential threat the player poses for one of Mozart's fvourites in the Springbok team.


 "Coetzee was also culpable in the Lood try. Once again in tough matches he is not the answer. He can run somewhat in space, not in traffic."  


Once again a totl misrepresentation of facts.   There were three tackles invovled in the tackle attempt on De Jager.  Coetzee was one- Alberts the other and the third one was dear Fransie.  - Now we have it all - Coetzee gets the blame as culpable - the other two are just exonerated.


"And the Cheetahs loosies were better than the Sharks till the power arrived. Deysel, by the way, had a shocker."  


At last = part of a sentence reflecting the truth - Deysel did have a shocker - but at least he tried to do some work.  A lberts had a worse shocker - he did bugger all during the whole game.  other than buggering up.


ONE HAS TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN MOZART WRITES ABOUT PLAYER PERFORMANCES.  IN MOST CASES IT IS ABSOLUTE DRIVEL. INVENTIONS AND OUTRIGHT LIES.

      



MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
09 Jul 2014, 23:36
#28
09 Jul 2014, 23:36#28

Two birds with one stone....there you are Davie, predicting a Welsh win;

 

 

CleanCut

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1683 RE: All I can say about the Bok side
June 12, 2014, 08:56:22  
If the Welsh cannot beat this side then I honestly don't know.

We're ripe for the picking.



Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8345 RE: All I can say about the Bok side
June 12, 2014, 08:57:36 Agreed CC  

 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
10 Jul 2014, 15:54
#29
10 Jul 2014, 15:54#29

That's not me saying the Welsh WOULD win is it? 

 

Try again

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
10 Jul 2014, 17:00
#30
10 Jul 2014, 17:00#30
It is you saying the Welsh would win Davie Boy.....CC is clearly predicting a Welsh win and you are agreeing. Game over.
— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news