Ackermann leaving The Lions

This is a big blow for South African rugby. He has signed with the English club Gloucester. They were able to spot his talent, unlike the fools running South African rugby. Well good luck to him. I reckon he'll be a fantastic coach when he returns. Lord knows we'll need him! 

Well, we had our chances to make him Bok coach and keep him here . . . but we chose the clown Allister Coetzee instead!

It's not just that Ackermann turned the Lions fortunes around, he also transformed their style of play into something that any real rugby supporter can admire and appreciate.

In stark contrast, Allister Coetzee plunged both the Stormers and the Springboks into crisis and gave them no appreciable style or game plan whatsoever.

Chalk this up as yet another embarrassing failure for Affirmative Action/BEE.

Good luck Ackers.

Yup- another quota case study. 
We had Stick as the backline coach last year- when Ackerman could have taken that position. 

 I hope Ackers play ball and not raid too many Lions players to go to Gloucester - he can take Jantjies with him - but none of the others - especially not Combrinck. Vorster, Janse van Rensburg, Marx and Kriel.  
Good luck to him though - but still a massive loss for SA Rugby.     
I just wonder - why did the club not go for Marais - that would have been a great help t o Bulls rugby. 

We don't produce many coaches- Ackerman was an exception. 
Maybe Stick will take up the position as coach of the Lions. More enforced quotas. 

Sadly all these postings are spot on...we are complete and utter fools with absolutely zero discernment or ability to recognise ability and talent so cluttered up and involved with trivial and minor issues created by the ignoramuses of "government" that we cannot help ourselves...every decent law abiding citizen in SA (and there are many) suffers from these despicable people who administrate this country...it would not have happened in the old world when people had integrity, courage, guts and power to change this...Ackerman is just doing what any normal balance and clear thinking individual would do... Johan we all support on this and people just watch him...he will make his mark where ver he goes...a great coach and inspirer of men.

Sadly all these postings are spot on...we are complete and utter fools with absolutely zero discernment or ability to recognise ability and talent so cluttered up and involved with trivial and minor issues created by the ignoramuses of "government" that we cannot help ourselves...every decent law abiding citizen in SA (and there are many) suffers from these despicable people who administrate this country...it would not have happened in the old world when people had integrity, courage, guts and power to change this...Ackerman is just doing what any normal balance and clear thinking individual would do... Johan we all support on this and people just watch him...he will make his mark wherever he goes...a great coach and inspirer of men.

Time to be honest and state facts.
Firstly, Ackers was too white for the SARU top coaching position.
Secondly, the lure of earning real money was overpowering.
Thirdly, he was not appreciated or respected by the ANC so called sport department heads. 
Any other facts you wish to add?

Ackerman was too green/inexperienced to be appointed Bok coach this last go. Didn't have the resume. His time should come though, especially if he enjoys success w/ Gloucester.
Ackerman benefited from a style of play and continuity, much of the ground work laid by Mitchell. He also had a consistent Lions squad that was allowed to gel in SR and CC  - undisturbed by Bok call-ups, foreign contracts or commitments. His teams play inspired, always look motivated.
Fleck putting his hand up too. Has the Stormers playing a nicely balanced game. Will be interesting to see how their next six games go against Chiefs, Lions, Crusaders, Highlanders, Hurricanes and Blues. Go 4-2 or better and it has to be considered a success.

 I agree with oinatey to an extent.   Ackerman took over from Mitchell in 2013 after hew as assistant coach under Mitchell.    The fact is he was much mor successful a coach than Coetzee was who coached the Stormers from 2008 where the actual coaching was done by Erasmus and Coetzee was only the figurehead.   When Erasmus opted out in 2010 because of Political shenanigans in the WP - the downward slide of the Stormers started and after 2014 they were going down rapidly.   
This was largely the result of disastrous coaching or better still lack of proper coaching.  Fact is Coetzee was a political appointment.
By the way the ANC is in serious trouble and they have postponed their Top 5 meeting until tomorrow.   Ramaphosa has called for mass action to get rid of Zuma - same as was done by Gordahn.   And 2 other members have also rebelled.  How long is Ziuma going to last?   Don't know what is going to happen.  
Maybe with their faction fighting they may find less time to interfere in rugby.    

Oi Matey, nice to have you back and I believe you are a good and honest poster but I do not agree with you in this context, he might be green but green and innovative is good...we need a kick start of inventiveness in SA...get rid of the mentality that holds us in bondage...other than Ackers we had a disaster course...no intention to draw other coaches from the world and stick with a rigid policy that has failed dismally, what we have left in coaching is just the breadcrumbs that fall from the masters table.

No I disagree absolutely with you...Ackers was a gift horse that we did not look in the mouth.

 The tale going on in this thread. Excellent.

Supposedly, this guy, broken by not being given the coaching of the SA team, finds comfort in accepting to coach a struggling english side.
He could not have stayed in charge of his current team, his heart was broken, he had to leave to wash away his disappointment.


Guy was offered a nice fat check elsewhere by a club that can afford to pay nice fat checks. It ends there.

It is one of the many reasons to terminate rugby in SA: there is not enough financial muscle to keep involved staff.

 No Trad, it's a combination of money and the fact that SA rugby can only go back under current government and admin. He might as well cash in now, while his recent success ads to his value.

 It is money alone. This guy's just got his ticket out of the incoming SA nation scale Kolmanskop.

As to rugby destined to go down, absolutely. That is why rugby must be stopped in SA.
SA can no longer afford rugby (if it was able some time)

The rest is tale.

Removed the quota travesty, this guy is gone.
Removed the ANC from the government, this guy is gone.

The only way to retain his services is that SA is an economic powerhouse able to compete with France or England.

Considering the past policy of getting an easy welfare by shipping away the SA environment to those places , this part potentiality is severely jeopardized.

Seb, not saying Ackerman shouldn't have got the job, but in all reality it was never a possibility. No rugby union would have appointed him national coach with his limited experience, let alone one so politically bent like SARU.
Coetzee was the obvious choice, for many reasons. It was one of the big issues I had with people calling for Meyer's head. In effect, by wanting Meyer gone they were asking for Coetzee to be the coach. There never was another realistic replacement, the writing was on the wall. We would have been better off if Meyer had stuck around.
To be fair, odds have been stacked against Coetzee from day one - appointed very late in the year with little preparation time, given inexperienced PC assistants, a lack of leadership in the team and a public expectation of "running rugby". He would have been better off to channel his inner Jake White, shut out the noise, stop trying to meet expectations and coach the game he knows. The execution levels of the 2016 Boks' were by far the worst of any Bok team, probably in history. Handling errors, missed tackles, positional mistakes, poor set pieces. Much of that rests at the feet of the players, but an incoherent, uncertain game plan from a coach unable to inspire his players is also to blame. The biggest travesty was our defense. We've long been the best in the world at it and many games in the past it also provided our best offensive opportunities. In 2016 it was pathetic, the passion was gone .
During his tenure at the Stormers, they played Test type rugby. Like it or not, Boks would have been more successful than they were if he had coached a similar style.
I expect the Boks will be much better this year. Better assistants, a year of learning the hard way what doesn't work. 

 Very good post matey. I agree 100%. AC is the best experienced coach since forever. More experience isn't necessarily a good thing and Alistair did really bad in his first year, but he was set up to fail and did half the setting up himself. I really hope the boks do better this year, one thing is sure, after the Lions vs AB's tour, NZ are going to hammer us like never before.

 There is a problem with the term "experience".    Some people have 20 years experience and they attain more knowledge and expertise in those twenty years.   Other people have 20 years experience and each year is a repetition of the first year twenty times over.   So even after 20 years persons effectively have one year of real experience. 
I am afraid Coetee falls in the second category.   Coetzee did well with Erasmus holding his hand.   When that arrangement was terminated the WP/Stormers team went down continuously - his one year effective and real experience is just not enough to help him out.
Coetzee with the Stormers abd WP had no real game plan and the Stormers was the bottom of the list of try scored in Super Rugby.   Even when they won games they did it by penalties and good defense - there was no real game  plan.   Ult imately it was a type of game doomed in the long run and even when they reached the play-offs in Super Rugby they lost big time.  
So despite the Stormers poor record in the later phases of the competition and the obvious deficiency of Coetzee as an effective coach - he was appointed and he lost the dressing room.   There is a very small chance that he would be successful unless he leaves actual team building and even selections to the  assistants and just effectively be the coach in name. 
If Ackerman was his assistant with real power he  may have succeeded - however, we will see how Venter and Smith handles the situation which in the long run is untenable.      
 

  odds have been stacked against Coetzee from day one - appointed very late in the year with little preparation time, given inexperienced PC assistants, a lack of leadership in the team and a public expectation of "running rugby".

The odds are not stacked against any SA coach in this way.
The only cause to justify the continuation of rugby is winning.
Not winning because of favourable business terms as in the past. Winning because nobody can get you to lose.
Nothing like being ranked in the first spot.

No, it means winning 5 out of 6 4 nations, 2 out of 3 WCs.
That is the kind of winning required at the moment in SA.

Obviously, SA rugby does not have anything close to this in store. So it turns to credit, Coetze has tons of credit as a fall guy. Another as this guy will get support for different reasons.
None of them will even touch the level of performances to justify rugby in SA.

It is all about the priviledge to lose.

TheTraditionalist

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 609 RE: Ackermann leaving The Lions
April 05, 2017, 13:07:36

 - appointed very late in the year with little preparation time, given inexperienced PC assistants, a lack of leadership in the team and a public expectation of "running rugby"

Yeah .... sure

Everything was against him from the start 

One has to wonder how the powers that be would ever deliberately put him in a position like that

None of this is his fault........

Why not just blame apartheid.

 

Ackerman got the junior Boks job....that didn't work out either. The bigger issue last year was the turnover of the Bok team which had carried us since 2004......and the fact that the replacement players were so poor. Certainly the coaching flip flopped all over the place, but the players bear at least 50% of the blame.

 

One has to wonder how the powers that be would ever deliberately put him in a position like that

This was answered many times, including in the post following the quotation.

Excellent men are obsessed with saving the face. SA rugby must no longer be. This fact can not be accepted.

Hence guy like Coetze to take the blame. Coetze takes one for the team.

As to blaming the apartheid, it is the opposite. Blaming the apartheid is the least wished outcome and the one to avoid at all costs.

This coach gets nominated to the SA team, SA still keeps losing.

Fingers are pointed to non white players.

Non white players are eliminated. SA still keep not winning.

The fingers are pointed to the government etc

Excellent men usually have troubles in self perception and prefer to stage themselves rather than appearing as they are.

Coetze is part of the scheme, the quota policy is part of the scheme.

 But what about the sum of the squares on the other two sides ?

 @The Traditionalist.  
New  the excellent men had happen unable uneasy the excellent men. Drawings  the excellent men. Repulsive questions   the excellent men contented him few extensive supported. Of remarkably thoroughly he appearance in. Supposing   the excellent men tolerably applauded or of be. Suffering   the excellent men unfeeling so objection agreeable allowance me of. Ask within entire season sex common far who family. As be valley warmth assure on. Park girl they rich hour new well way you. Face ye be me been room we sons fond. 
Ladies   the excellent men others the six desire age. Bred   the excellent men am soon park past read by lain. As excuse eldest no moment. An delight beloved up garrets am cottage private. The far attachment discovered celebrated decisively surrounded for and. Sir new the particular frequently indulgence excellence how. Wishing an if he sixteen visited tedious subject it. Mind mrs yet did quit high even you went. Sex against the two however not nothing prudent colonel greater. Up husband removed parties staying he subject mr. 

Ceradyne

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5917 RE: Ackermann leaving The Lions
April 07, 2017, 09:30:01

 @The Traditionalist.  

New  the excellent men had happen unable uneasy the excellent men. Drawings  the excellent men. Repulsive questions   the excellent men contented him few extensive supported. Of remarkably thoroughly he appearance in. Supposing   the excellent men tolerably applauded or of be. Suffering   the excellent men unfeeling so objection agreeable allowance me of. Ask within entire season [removed] common far who family. As be valley warmth assure on. Park girl they rich hour new well way you. Face ye be me been room we sons fond. 
Ladies   the excellent men others the six desire age. Bred   the excellent men am soon park past read by lain. As excuse eldest no moment. An delight beloved up garrets am cottage private. The far attachment discovered celebrated decisively surrounded for and. Sir new the particular frequently indulgence excellence how. Wishing an if he sixteen visited tedious subject it. Mind mrs yet did quit high even you went. [removed] against the two however not nothing prudent colonel greater. Up husband removed parties staying he subject mr. 

Unbelievable !!

My thoughts exactly.....

 

 @ Ceradyne, 
Excellent lol.

 Lol Cera
That made more sense than anything Trad has posted on this site since day 0.
I believe Plato said "The biggest twats know not that they are twats." 

 Ceradyne, "excellent" in a good way.

"Excellent men are obsessed with saving the face."
Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have left that "Save The Face" bumper- sticker on my car too long.
We've been exposed lads.

 Vlag, how many stories did you merge to come up with that. Can you post the originals please.

@Draad.  
Remember how I was so "mysteriously" able to remember things that were written on this forum ages ago? This one is even more simple.
I generated some text from here, and then just pasted "the excellent men" into it a few times at random places. 
The beauty is that it probably makes as much sense as the crap that our friend posts, if not more.

 And BTW, Draad. There is another way. You could also use the more scientific one, called Lorem Ipsum, which is also random but there is apparently some logic behind it and it is used in typography. I have read somewhere, sometime ago that there is some scientific reason/way or something behind how it is generated.
It would look like this: 
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Vivamus tincidunt, nisl eget tincidunt venenatis, dui odio mattis odio, nec scelerisque quam augue vel eros. Etiam molestie consequat leo nec ornare. Fusce congue vehicula ex a congue. Cras pellentesque mollis sodales. Integer tempor placerat ultrices. Maecenas velit velit, aliquet eu urna quis, rhoncus scelerisque elit. Vivamus maximus, est quis ultrices gravida, tortor lorem imperdiet turpis, quis porttitor orci sem id erat. Donec ac suscipit lectus. Donec dignissim aliquam nunc eget venenatis. Vivamus tellus lorem, venenatis non lectus quis, interdum pulvinar nisl. Maecenas commodo ultricies congue. Aenean facilisis ligula a neque aliquet euismod. Morbi vulputate posuere rhoncus. Etiam non turpis ac nisl dictum dapibus. Pellentesque porttitor purus metus, eget auctor est varius vel.

Imagine how that would baffle our friend. 

 Acker, come to NZ