FIXTURESNo upcoming fixtures — check back soon.
FORUM / RUGBY /  Actual EOY Squad

Actual EOY Squad

Started by bluebok38 REPLIES972 VIEWS· 28 Oct 2013, 18:39
SHAREXFACEBOOKWHATSAPPTELEGRAMREDDITLINKEDIN
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:39
#1
28 Oct 2013, 18:39#1

Ex SuperSport


THE SPRINGBOK SQUAD FOR THE CASTLE LAGER OUTGOING TOUR 2013:

Zane Kirchner Fullback 28 caps 25 points 29 years
Gio Aplon Fullback/Wing 17 caps 25 points 31 years
Willie le Roux Fullback/Wing 9 caps 15 points 24 years

JP Pietersen Wing 48 caps 70points 27 years
Bryan Habana Wing 92 caps 265 points 30 years
JJ Engelbrecht Centre/Wing 10 caps 20 points 24 years
Jaque Fourie Centre 69 caps 160 points 32 years
Jean de Villiers (captain) Centre 93 caps 120 points 32 years
Jan Serfontein Centre 9 caps 5 points 20 years

Morné Steyn Flyhalf 51 caps 618 points 29 years
Johan Goosen Flyhalf 4 caps 8 points 21 years
Pat Lambie Flyhalf/Fullback 29 caps 55 points 23 years

Fourie du Preez Scrumhalf 65 caps 70 points 31 years
Ruan Pienaar Scrumhalf 71 caps 130 points 29 years
Louis Schreuder Scrumhalf 0 caps 0 points 23 years

Duane Vermeulen No 8 13 caps 5 points 27 years
Siya Kolisi Loose forward 8 caps 0 points 22 years
Francois Louw Loose forward 25 caps 25 points 28 years
Willem Alberts Loose forward 27 caps 30 points 28 years
Marcell Coetzee Loose forward 14 caps 5 points 22 years

Pieter-Steph du Toit Lock 0 caps 0 points 21 years
Eben Etzebeth Lock 20 caps 0 points 22 years
Flip van der Merwe Lock 31 caps 5 points 28 years
Bakkies Botha Lock 76 caps 35 points 34 years

Jannie du Plessis Prop 51 caps 5 points 30 years
Frans Malherbe Prop 0 caps 0 points 22 years
Coenie Oosthuizen Prop 11 caps 5 points 24 years
Gurthrö Steenkamp Prop 46 caps 30 points 32 years
Tendai Mtawarira Prop 50 caps 10 points 28 years

Bismarck du Plessis Hooker 54 caps 40 points 29 years
Adriaan Strauss Hooker 30 caps 25 points 27 years
Scarra Ntubeni Hooker 0 caps 0 points 22 years

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:43
#2
28 Oct 2013, 18:43#2
Exactly as reported by Rapport.....OOM your janatorial sources were dead wrong again. 
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:44
#3
28 Oct 2013, 18:44#3
Based on that squad this would be my starting team;
Beast, Strauss, Jannie
Du Toit, Etzebeth
Louw, Alberts, Vermeulen
Du Preez, Goosen, Habana, JDV, J fourie, Jp, Willie

Reserves:
Coenie, Guthro, Bizzie, Serfontein, Morne, Aplon
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:46
#4
28 Oct 2013, 18:46#4
Decent squad, despite the exclusion's of Reinach and Labuschagne. Schreuder has shown zilch and should count his lucky stripes.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:46
#5
28 Oct 2013, 18:46#5
Not sure Goosen is ready to start in the Welsh test....maybe Morne to start with Goosen off the bench. Apart from that I'm with you BB.  
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:49
#6
28 Oct 2013, 18:49#6
I left out Bakkies on the bench.
I'd start with Goosen because he is special and have Morne instead of Lambie because on the slow NH pitches, an accurate kicking Flyhalf will be more of an asset. 
J Fourie is a very good player and with the frailties in JJ's game, and the relative inexperience of Serfontein, he'd be a safest bet.  
I am a little surprised that F Steyn did not even make the squad.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:55
#7
28 Oct 2013, 18:55#7
It looks like this squad was decided well before the CC final. If that was taken into account Steyn was a certainty and Schreuder shouldn't have made it.....he is the most overrated player since Luke Watson.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,297 posts
28 Oct 2013, 18:59
#8
28 Oct 2013, 18:59#8
Yes no Frans Steyn is a surprise. He did play well in the Curry Cup final with his defense in particular very good.
Maybe he has been told he needs to lose some more weight and get back to being super fit. 
Who else is missing that was expected. That thin Bulls lock looks like he is not in the squad. He was useless in the lineouts vs the All Blacks and the kick off were worse.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 19:32
#9
28 Oct 2013, 19:32#9

Kitshoff has to be disappointed. He is beginning to look like a test prop. I'm guessing the fact that it's the NH gave the nod to Gurthro, who has been solid off the bench. By next year Kitshoff should get his chance.

 

Another learning point is that the squad announced before the first tests seems to carry a lot of weight.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 19:40
#10
28 Oct 2013, 19:40#10

This is the June squad:

 

 

Lourens AdriaanseGWK GriquasProp0Willem AlbertsThe SharksLoose forward20Gio AplonDHL Western ProvinceWing/Fullback18Bjorn BassonVodacom Blue BullsWing6Arno BothaVodacom Blue BullsLoose forward0Marcell CoetzeeThe SharksLoose forward12Juan de JonghDHL Western ProvinceCentre14Jean de Villiers (captain)DHL Western ProvinceCentre84Bismarck du PlessisThe SharksHooker46Jannie du PlessisThe SharksProp42Pieter-Steph du ToitThe SharksLock0JJ EngelbrechtVodacom Blue BullsCentre / Wing1Eben EtzebethDHL Western ProvinceLock11Bryan HabanaDHL Western ProvinceWing83Francois HougaardVodacom Blue BullsScrumhalf27Zane KirchnerVodacom Blue BullsFullback24Siya KolisiDHL Western ProvinceLoose forward0Juandré KrugerVodacom Blue BullsLock8Pieter LabuschagneToyota FS CheetahsLoose forward0Pat LambieThe SharksFullback20Willie le RouxGWK GriquasFullback / Wing0Francois LouwBath, EnglandLoose forward17Tendai MtawariraThe SharksProp41Lwazi MvovoThe SharksWing7Trevor NyakaneToyota FS CheetahsProp0Coenie OosthuizenToyota FS CheetahsProp2Ruan PienaarUlster, N IrelandScrumhalf63Chiliboy RalepelleVodacom Blue BullsHooker21Jan SerfonteinVodacom Blue BullsCentre0Pierre SpiesVodacom Blue BullsNo 850Morné SteynVodacom Blue BullsFlyhalf42Adriaan StraussToyota FS CheetahsHooker21Flip van der MerweVodacom Blue BullsLock23Jano VermaakVodacom Blue Bulls

 

 

The omissions appear to be Adriaanse, Basson, Botha, de Jongh, Hougaard, Kruger, Labuschagne, Mvovo, Nyakane, Ralepelle, Spies and Vermaak. ....12 players.

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 19:52
#11
28 Oct 2013, 19:52#11

What the fuck - SARU says one thing in Public and then does the exact opposite.  Jurie Roux made an announcement of limitations of foreign-based players on TV - and then stood there announcing a squad consisting of nine  foreign-based players without even a look of shame - despite the fact that he contradicted himself directly from what he said on TV previously.   Spineles lot at SARU  - that is for sure.  I should never have trusted them at all - but I thought for a change they might be talking the truth.

 

There is just one consolation I can find in that squad and that is NO Francois Steyn and NO Juan de Jongh and NO Juandre Kruger.   Mozart must be crying still about those three certainties he named as his top players.  At least we are spared that one.

 

Now lets look at the squad:-

 

The 2011 WC losers

 

Here we have the following :-

 

Zane Kirchner,  JP Pietersen, Bryan Habana, Jacque Fourie, Morne Steyn, Fourie du Preez, Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro Steenkamp.

 

Of those the following are really no good anymore:-

 

Zane Kirchner, Morne Steyn, Willem Alberts, Gurthro Steenkamp

 

Fourie du Preez came back and played from the bench when the Pumas were in disarray and looked very good.  Then came back for the Ellis Park test and was bog ordinary with nothing to write home about.   Is he going to be something better in the forthcoming matches?  

 

Bakkies Botha - always a card candidate is back - he was always a dirty player - and got a massive following despite that.   But - for heaven sake - the man is 34 years of age and will be 36 in the WC time in 2015.   Is he still up to standard and why him when we have good enough local talent.  Back to the future in his case.

 

Like Du Preez, who had a very average game at Ellis Park - Fourie and JP Pietersen is playing "soft" rugby in Japan.   Will they make it in the hard test environment - or be the same as Fourie du Preez was in the last test - bog ordinary?   Fourie, Du Preez and Pietersen were great players - but are they still great players?     I have my doubts about that one.

 

Meyer would be wise to play at least Pietersen and Fourie from the bench in the first test to see what they can produce - like he did with Du Preez,  Not that it worked out in the Du Preez case in the AB test.

 

The Quota Selections

 

The selections made in the main with no regard to overall merit are the following:-

 

Zane Kirchner, Siya Kolisi, Gurthro Steenkamp, Scara Ngubene.

 

Merit selections :-

 

JP Pietersen, Bryan Habana,  Gio Aplon (with some rather serious question marks on defence) and Tendai Mtawarire.

 

The Most disappointing Selections

 

Zane Thoughtless Kirchner,  Morne Ellis Park Debacle Steyn, Willem Ellis Park Debacle Alberts, Ruan Mr Average Pienaar, Gurthro Fat Steenkamp, and Jannie Missed Tackles Professional du Plessis.

 

Answer to Mozart's Prayers

 

The Rugby Geriatrics Botha, Fourie, Pienaar, Steenkamp  and Du Preez are all in. 

 

The Poor and Under-Performing are also in:-

 

Morne Steyn,  Willem Alberts, Jannie du Plessis

 

The prayers went astray because the following are still around:-

 

JJ Engelbrecht, Jan Serfontein, Johan Goosen, Pat Lambie (not after the recent final when he became a turncoat on that one), Marcel Coetzee, Frans Malherbe and Coenie Oosthuizen.   That despite his constant bad mouthing of them.   Did I leave out anyone in this category - Mozart?

 

The unexplicable selection

 

Louis Schreuder is the one I think of here.   However, Meyer is one person that you can trust never to change his mind - unless forced into it by injuries, etc.  He had Schreuder at one of his training camps last year - and that possibly explain that one.

 

The Future with that Squad looking at WC 2015

 

That future looks bleak with the squad selections made now - and that s really where we will repeat the 2011 series.   The mediocre and over-the-hill players would make sure of that. 

 

Repeat the mistakes of the Wallabies in 1995, the POMS in 2007, the Springboks in 2011 by selecting over-the hill players are a certain guarantee for losing in that competitio0n. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 20:12
#12
28 Oct 2013, 20:12#12

Mozart

 

Starting with Morne is like drinking stale coke.  He is clueless - does not know when to kick and when to pass balls - and we are going nowhere with him in the squad at all.

 

If he is selected - he will mess up everything. 

 

I think the team should be as follows for the Wales test:-

 

15 Le Roux, 14 Pietersen, 13 Engelbrecht, 12 De Villiers, 11 Habana, 10 Lambie, 9 Du Preez, 8  Vermeulen, 7 Alberts, 6  Louw, 5  Du Toit, 4 Etzebeth, 3  Malherbe, 2 Du Plessis, 1 Mtawarire

 

16  Strauss, 17 Oosthuizen, 18 Jannie du Plessis, 19 Botha, 20 Kolisi, 21 Pienaar, 22 Goosen, 23 Fourie

 

There is no indication whether JP Pietersen will be any good after a dismal Super 15 season in 2013.   There is also a problem with Fourie - after playing two years "soft" rugby in Japan.   To take them in the team would be a gamble.   After his dismal show at the Ellis Park test - missing two kicks at goal as well - Steyn should not be anywhere near the team.   I pick Malherbe at tighthead - because Du Plessis was so poor in games this year.  His scrumming is poor and his defence worse.   Botha is even a worse gamble than Fourie - and him on the bench is the answer in the first test.   Just in case the dumb Ceradyne is not seeing this.  Botha's team (Toulon) is on the skids this year and lost some key matches already.

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 21:21
#13
28 Oct 2013, 21:21#13

Look you discredited old coot....we don't need any more advice from you. I love the smug tone you adopted yesterday when you were so sure you were right. Dumbass, why did you think Rapport went out with their story? Because they never heard Jurie Roux? They obviously had reliable information you obstinate  old coot.

 

  

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2013, 21:27
#14
28 Oct 2013, 21:27#14
So ou Maaikie, I see you have changed your tune about Bakkies. Your concern the other day was that he doesn't even start for his club in France any more. What happened to that argument. You have gone quite silent on that balls-up of yours. Of course you have now decided that he is a dirty player to try and hide away from  the fact that you made a paw-paw of yourself with his appearances for his club. Having said that, I will not be surprised if you try and wriggle away from that one. You are after all notorious for that kind of tactic.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
28 Oct 2013, 21:44
#15
28 Oct 2013, 21:44#15
Is Botha being brought in to give Bismarck some lessons? 
If the two of them are on the field at the same time better ensure an extra supply of stretchers, lol
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 21:59
#16
28 Oct 2013, 21:59#16

Mozart and Ceradyne

 

You are more discredited than anyone else.  Are you implying that I am not allow to write things on this site?   Suddenly become the moderator and owner here?

 

You are normally writing thoughtless rubbish - use stats when it fits your argument and praise your favourite players - even when thy bugger up badly when stas are ignored - while trying desperately to discredit those players you do not like.   That befits a fool in capital letters. 

 

Both you and Ceradyne are fools about players like Bakkies.   The last time I saw Bakkies play for Toulon he was carded for dirty play.   I often saw only half of games of Toulon and never saw Bakkies.  May have started - but replaced very early.   In any event after winning the trophy last year - Toulon is on the skids this year - losing key games - despite Bakkies and Wilkinson their two highly paid players..

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:09
#17
28 Oct 2013, 22:09#17

I see there was some members being surprised by the omission of Francois Steyn - after writing him up as the Messiah that brought about the Sharks win in the CC final.  Fact is his performance is not what was reported by the dummies like Mozart.   He was slow and apparently not fully fit - being still overweight.   He made some tackles and crashballed most of the time - as was his normal since his return from France and he made one good tackle and a number of routine ones - but also missed a tackle on De Allende.

 

Meyer may be a conservative and hidebound person - but he obviously saw the reality of Steyn - slow, unfit and overweight, with a negative impact on backline play -  which were over-looked by most contributors on this site.     

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:09
#18
28 Oct 2013, 22:09#18

 

So rry - duplication

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:11
#19
28 Oct 2013, 22:11#19

Sorry -  Duplication

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:15
#20
28 Oct 2013, 22:15#20
 Mike your concern regarding some players here is justified.I have to say my confidence in Meyer is shaken when he selects schreuder! Reinach, Mac and Kockott as well as Vermaak are all better. Schreuder is bog ordinary!  I think van Zyl is also a better prospect.Sarel too is better!Then we have Kolisi as a quota player. Deon has consistently outplayed him for season after season.
Mike some players are there in a holding capacity. Bakkies and Steenkamp for example. Lood and Willemse are not quite ready and kitshoff was also held back although he was very unlucky not to get the nod. Next year they will be in the mix as will Labuschagne.
My side:Beast, Bissie, MalherbeBakkies, EtzebethLouw, Vemuelen, CoetzeeDu preez, LambieJean JJJP, Habana, Willie
Coenie, Adrian, JannieDu ToitAlbertsRuan, Morne, jaque Fourie

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:28
#21
28 Oct 2013, 22:28#21

Beeno

 

A very good suggested team -- not the team most fools on this site will come up with

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:44
#22
28 Oct 2013, 22:44#22
 ou maaaikie where is the team saSUE selected?I also thought frans was underdone. However he could be the deal next year. Burger's return was strange. H e didn't look too interested. Probably realised he was not ready
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:52
#23
28 Oct 2013, 22:52#23

Beeno

 

Sorry - it was your team.   Saw Sasue posted something - maybe on another topic and thought is was his team

 

This site is as slow tonight as Alberts and Steyn combined is.  Snail -paced

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:52
#24
28 Oct 2013, 22:52#24

Beeno

 

Sorry - it was your team.   Saw Sasue posted something - maybe on another topic and thought is was his team

 

This site is as slow tonight as Alberts and Steyn combined is.  Snail -paced

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2013, 22:56
#25
28 Oct 2013, 22:56#25
 @ Ou Maaikie. Nope. You can write anything you want. How do  you sleep at night? You just cannot help yourself from lying. First you said that Bakkies does not even start any more, now you are trying a BS escape route by saying that you only saw  half of  the games and  that he was substituted. I am saying that you are talking kak, and I have proven that.

Now, let's deal with him  being carded. You are so hell-bent on discrediting the guy that you would resort to blatant deliberate lies. Please inform us about that card for dirty play against Bakkies. These are the games with that was played by Toulon so far this season, with notes about the "cards against" Bakkies.

Heineken Cup:
13/10/13. Glasgow Warriors. No card
19/10/13. Cardiff Blues. No Card

Top 14.
Oct
5/10. Clermont. No card.
26/10. Toulouse. Did not play.

Sept
4/9. Brive. Did not play
8/9. Biarritz. No card.
14/9. Castres. No card.
21/9. Bayonne. No card. (Ali Williams was carded)
28/9. Oyonnax. No card.

August.
16/8. Montpellier. No card.
23/8. Racing Metro. No card.
31/8. Grenoble. No card.

As for Toulon being on the skids. Another bullshitting lie. The played Toulouse away this past weekend and the lost by one point. They came  very close to being the first team to beat Toulouse at home in years. After 10 rounds of Top 14 rugby they are third and 3 points behind log leaders Toulouse. The only difference between them and the top 2 is the fact that they have drawn one game. The top 5 on the log have  all lost 4 games each. The Heineken  Cup is still early days and they are joint leaders in their pool after two rounds.

As usual you have, once again, proven that you have no clue about what is going on in the French leagues and you are relying on your own dreamed up bullshit.

Glad that I could help with the facts.
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
28 Oct 2013, 23:08
#26
28 Oct 2013, 23:08#26
OOM is so desperate for support that he calls Hasbeen's team "very good" when it contains Fury, Bakkies, Morne,  Pienaar and  Alberts on the bench....all of whom he campaigned viciously against. And JJ who he said should play on the wing. This guy will say anything to get a little support. It's a cry for help chaps....do what you can.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2013, 23:10
#27
28 Oct 2013, 23:10#27
 


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 4923 RE: Actual EOY Squad
October 28, 2013, 21:08:22 OOM is so desperate for support that he call Hasbeen's team "very good" when it contains Fury, Bakkies, Morne,  Pienaar and  Alberts on the bench....all of whom he campaigned viciously against. And JJ who he said should play on the wing. This guy will say anything to get a little support. It's a cry for help chaps....do what you can.
Hahaha. I saw that but decided not to rub it in even further. He was after all happy with the "dirty" Bakkies in the side.
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
28 Oct 2013, 23:49
#28
28 Oct 2013, 23:49#28
 I for one am appreciating Cerydyne's constant proving of Maaike wrong, Oom does chat some complete rubbish. 
"I see there was some members being surprised by the omission of Francois Steyn - after writing him up as the Messiah that brought about the Sharks win in the CC final"
Now this annoyed me, nobody said that Steyn was the reason the Sharks won but that he had a damn good match. Your whole point has been created out of nothing, essentia lly making it a lie. 
GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
29 Oct 2013, 00:03
#29
29 Oct 2013, 00:03#29

ZK should never be there...one consolation is that Pocket Rocket Appels is there and both Willie and Patrick are dual position players...Rory Kockett and/or Mc Cloed are both ommissions that are questionable. Kitshof's ommission is also questionable...Gurtho and Bakkies don't make sense....conservatism or perhaps sentamentalism can be stumbling block...Morne and Pienaar are spent and time to move on and change. FS ommission is a surprise especially when he showed last week that he was returning to form (although he still needs to drop a few pounds).

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2013, 00:56
#30
29 Oct 2013, 00:56#30
 Look, the Bok coach who that picks a side that satisfy everybody has yet to be born  and everybody has the right to an opinion. I just get my knickers in a knot when you use bullshit and lies to  voice your opinion. If you do not think this, that and  the other player is  fit to play for the Boks, then  great. Go ahead. Just don't say that you don't like him because he has black hair because  the whole world can easily establish that he is indeed blonde. For me, if Heyneke wants Bakkies in a mentorship role then fine. If he he is seriously considering him as a possible prospect for the RWC, then  so be it. He has  more credentials than me to decide  on these  matters. Many of us raised our eye brows when Jake White brought Os du Randt out of retirement. Bakkies  has not even retired.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2013, 02:15
#31
29 Oct 2013, 02:15#31

Ceradyne

 

Doos you are lying as per normal.   I said Toulon is on the skids - they lost crucial games - actually four in total and they drew in one game  and they  have two of the highest paid has-beens in their team.  I saw Toulon losing a number of games myself - and I saw myself that in one of the  rare cases where Botha did make it to the second half - that he was carded.   You lie and then pretend to tell the truth - five losses does not count and neither does 1 draw.   How many rounds have been played?  Then give me the Toulon's winning percentage if you dare.   The others played the stronger teams and lost - Toulon their losses came against weaker teams - bar the Toulouse one. 

 

Indicentally after writing this I went to my bedroom and the Toulouse -Toulon was on replay.   Wilkenson missed two penalty kicks at goal and also a dropped goal in the last s econd of the game - not so hot those misses.

 

 

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2013, 03:02
#32
29 Oct 2013, 03:02#32
Ahhhh the real Maaikie comes crawling out if the gutters, calling me a doos when he is the lying doos here. What about Bakkies? Which game was it that Bakkies got carded. Come on tell me. I have just given you all the games that he has played in this season. He has not had a single card.

Are you really an illiterate imbecile or are you just trying your best to look like  one. Can't you read? I have already told you how many rounds of Top 14 has been played. Makes me think. You are supposed to be so clued up on the Top14 yet you ask me again, after I have already told you, how many rounds have been played.

Oh and then you come with a convenient excuse that Toulon have played  weaker teams. Do you even know that Clermont  and Toulouse are notorious for being some of the toughest nuts to crack in an away game. In addition, they (ClermonT) are second, one above Toulon, on the log and Toulon have already beaten them. You do know that Clermont ended at the top of the log last season? Toulon lost to log leaders, Toulouse, by one  point in an away game. Toulon also lost to  Castres, the current Top14 Champs in an away game.

Thing is that you clearly have no idea how competitive the Top14 league is. In summary, Toulon lost away to No1, Toulouse, by one  point. They beat no2, Clermont. They are no 3. The drew with no4, Montpellier. You could have one of the top teams beat another top team  the one week and then loose to  one of the bottom ones the next week.

This is the current log for you:




CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2013, 03:53
#33
29 Oct 2013, 03:53#33
Thanks for the info - a 50% win record - and I think that is bloody poor for the cup winners of last year - and they have more high-flyers than most of the other teams.    The competition must be competitive to produce those kind of results.   I tried to watch all the games possible - but not all games are broadcast especially of the Top 14 - but the Heineken Cup games are.   Some shockers there as well - but the Irish teams seems to be riding high - the English teams not so and he French teams around 60-40.   
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2013, 03:53
#34
29 Oct 2013, 03:53#34
Thanks for the info - a 50% win record - and I think that is bloody poor for the cup winners of last year - and they have more high-flyers than most of the other teams.    The competition must be competitive to produce those kind of results.   I tried to watch all the games possible - but not all games are broadcast especially of the Top 14 - but the Heineken Cup games are.   Some shockers there as well - but the Irish teams seems to be riding high - the English teams not so and he French teams around 60-40.   
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
29 Oct 2013, 05:02
#35
29 Oct 2013, 05:02#35
 I'm going to use Football as an example, Man City have bought loads of world class players and would beat all of the other teams in the Premier league on paper, but they are 7th.
Maaike, player's are not the only factor in which a team wins/loses, nor are they the sole representatives of a team. They may lose because they're management were out thought of tactically or a poor ref or some other reason. 
What I'm trying to say is your judgements on these players are completely irrational, you haven't watched any/more than one of their matches yet you decide that their unworthy of a Bok call up, additionally I've heard that the only match Toulon were properly beaten was against the Cardiff Blues, but even though I heard this from a friend I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt because I haven't watched the game.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
29 Oct 2013, 09:39
#36
29 Oct 2013, 09:39#36
 Mike never take ou windpomp too seriously. It seems obvious Toulon having won 50% of their matches (draw however is neutral) and are not as good as last year. Windpomp is here only to snipe at you. If he thinks you have made a mistake he is beside himself with joy and uses the opportunity to get all nasty. Moz given who Meyer has selected in his squad my team is about the best that can be put on the field and Mike agrees as he ought to.Lets have no ganging up on a respected poster please oaks! We have not had this sort of thing here before and we certainly do not want an ss board attack pack approach here that drives folk away. Mike makes a lot of excellent points. Cheaser Frans was overweight and is still not ready.He is getting the good message - get fit or you will not be considered. That said one still hopes he will come back next season. Ditto Burger.Just note that 3 or the weak picks were quota based. Steenkamp (not as bad as some think) scurra (maybe as an impact player) and kolisi (Absolutely no justification for his selection). Is Kirchner a quota player as well? The whole quota disgrace bedevils any assessment of the coaches ability to pick a side.In adopting this disgusting approach we shoot ourselves in the foot big time.The real blunder was Schreuder. Cant find any excuse for that one. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
29 Oct 2013, 10:12
#37
29 Oct 2013, 10:12#37

Beeno

 

I was actually shocked to see how the one-instance junkies made an evaluation of matches.    After all their praise singing of the two players - they apparently based ther assessments on only to instances in the game, namely  -

 

  *   Steyn's one good tackle on De Allende -  good enough for Mozart o go into hysterics about how he dominated De Allende;  and

 

  *   Albert's one good ball carry.

 

For the rest the performances of the two players can be summarized as follows:-

 

Willem Alberts

 

Alberts himself made 3 tackles during the game - he assisted other players in 4 cases to make tackles - one very poor tackle allowing for off-load - missed 4 tackles completely (landed on the grass in the process).

 

He was involved in 4 ball carries of which only one actually produced marked benefits for the Sharks -  All four carries ended in mauls - none represented more than 5 meters in territory gained.

 

He knocked on the ball once.   There was an allegation that he took line out balls - that never happened.  Du Toit in one line out took the ball and passed the ball on to Alberts and he immediately passed it out to the next player.

 

THE ABOVE IS A REAL DESCRIPTION OF ALBERTS ACTIVITIES THROUGHOUT THE GAME.   HE WAS STANDING OUTSIDE OF ALL MAULS BAR THOSE FOLLOWING HIS FOUR BALL CARRIES AND NEVER CONTRIBUTED TO BALL RECOVERY.

 

Francois Steyn

 

Steyn in fact made 3 tackles during the whole game -assisted Coetzee with one tackle - missed one tackle - carried the ball twice over short distances - and made two good passes.

 

SUMMARY

 

At best the above showed how really average and in some instances poor the two players performed - their work rate was way below average.  I challenged everyone to fault me on what I found indeed happened - and there was no takers - bar Shezza who said I was prejudiced, but did not challenge any of the remarks as to actual performances of in his case Steyn.

 

the above again showed how untrustworthy the biased members of this site really are.   Steyn and Alberts can do no wrong - even where it is evident that they under-performed in games with a minimal work rate in evidence.

 

There is no way that player seletions are often not dome on the basis of performance - but in respect of other value systems like quota selections and insistence on retention at all costs of under-performing players.   De Koning refers to "bolters" - it would have been a real "bolter" if Steyn was selected based on the performances in the CC final - and Alberts selection was a very real "bolter" if his below par performances in ther Ellid Pa rk test and those in the CC final are borne in mind. 

 

CL
CleanCutPro9,905 posts
29 Oct 2013, 10:17
#38
29 Oct 2013, 10:17#38
 

Waaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!


DumbMike’s language has suddenly changed. From one pleading for decency and holding handies to suddenly calling posters doose.


How things have changed.


CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
29 Oct 2013, 12:52
#39
29 Oct 2013, 12:52#39
 
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7561 RE: Actual EOY Squad
October 29, 2013, 01:53:11 Thanks for the info - a 50% win record - and I think that is bloody poor for the cup winners of last year - and they have more high-flyers than most of the other teams.    The competition must be competitive to produce those kind of results.   I tried to watch all the games possible - but not all games are broadcast especially of the Top 14 - but the Heineken Cup games are.   Some shockers there as well - but the Irish teams seems to be riding high - the English teams not so and he French teams around 60-40.  



You just don't get it do you? You have said,yourself, that you have not watched the games and that you have only watched part of the games, yet you have an exact idea of the strengths (or weaknesses) of the teams. You are a joke man. You say that you haven't seen Bakkies starting. Then you make a  U-Turn and say that he must have been subbed. Just goes to show how much you really know. He many 80 minute games has  Bakkies played in his career? Hardly ever is the answer. He was always subbed around 55-60 minutes into the game,and that is how Toulon is still  using him. If you haven't seen him play, it means  that you have  been watching 20 minutes per game and then you are this "grootbek"?

You know zip about the French league and you have proven it over and over. You are talking kak about the Irish teams riding high in the Heineken as well. There are six groups in the Heineken and these are the leaders in the different groups:

Group1 - Leinster (Ireland), Group 2 - Exeter (England), Group 3 - Toulouse (France), Group 4 - Scarlets (Wales), Group 5 - Ulster (Ireland), Group 6 - Perpignan (France)

That is, however, after only two rounds, so a lot can still  happen.


Shezza

Status: Squad member
Posts: 512 RE: Actual EOY Squad
October 29, 2013, 03:02:20  I'm going to use Football as an example, Man City have bought loads of world class players and would beat all of the other teams in the Premier league on paper, but they are 7th.
Maaike, player's are not the only factor in which a team wins/loses, nor are they the sole representatives of a team. They may lose because they're management were out thought of tactically or a poor ref or some other reason. 
What I'm trying to say is your judgements on these players are completely irrational, you haven't watched any/more than one of their matches yet you decide that their unworthy of a Bok call up, additionally I've heard that the only match Toulon were properly beaten was against the Cardiff Blues, but even though I heard this from a friend I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt because I haven't watched the game.



Sheza, I have watched that game and still have it on my PVR and  I can assure you that they were not properly beaten. I am having a quick look.

At 70 minutes the score is still 12-12. Remember that it was an away game  for Toulon. At 71 minutes, there is a  late tackle on Wulf, the Toulon 14, at 5m from the Cardiff try-line. Penalty Toulon. Wilkinson gets it over. Score 15-12 Toulon, time 72:06.

From the kick-off, Michalak knocks the ball on on the Toulon 22m line. Scrum Cardiff, time 76 min. Play goes on  and Cardiff  attack the Toulon try-line. The two Toulon centres makes a balls-up of a tackle and Davies score  under the posts on 77 minutes.

Halfpenny converts at 79 minutes, and that was the final score. Toulon was not properly beaten. They were one missed tackle, in the last 3 minutes of the game, away from victory at Cardiff City. They are joint group leaders of Group 2, but it is still early days with only 2  out of 6 rounds  in the pool stages.



— END OF THREAD —

More from Rugby

More news