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FORUM / RUGBY /  Affirmative Selection vs quota Selection

Affirmative Selection vs quota Selection

Started by sharkbok28 REPLIES718 VIEWS· 05 Jul 2012, 05:00
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sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
05 Jul 2012, 05:00
#1
05 Jul 2012, 05:00#1

 I am the first to say that I hate quota selections- It is an insult to all players who are good enough to make the team regardless of colour, religion, culture etc, and also not nice as a supporter.

However I think Hieniken Meyer could have been niave in his selections so far. 
Many players of colour- that have a bigger fan base, lost out most to Bulle. 

-Juan De jongh- Over Missie 

-Aplon- (Sideshow Bob affro?)

-Siya Kolisi over what ever his name was in the 3rd test but got replaced early in the 2nd half. 

-Chilly Boy- Strauss. 

Mvovo- 

Many of these are close calls with players who made the bok squad.

 

Look at all the shit that Jake White had to go through in his time as bok coach- he was even forced to choose Luke Watson. Meyer is giving some of the politicians ammunition once he settles in as bok coach, and the selection policy of any 50/50 call going to the bulls(exception Chillyboy). 

 

 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
05 Jul 2012, 08:30
#2
05 Jul 2012, 08:30#2

I am strongly in favour of affirmative selection done on merit.  Nobody can argue about players like Habana. Pietersen and the Beast playing for the Springboks - I even believe Kolisi and Chilliboi could play for the Springboks with a real chance of success.    However, I am not in facour of quota selection - since that imply discrimination - ie if quotas are laid down - it  means that better playes are left out of the team to make way for players with lesser ability and that implies that we have a weaker team representing the country.

Luke Watson was not a quota selection ot affirmative action one.  - but a political one forced onto Jake White by Watson's political father and pals - he was a joke at the best of times and Jake White dropped him early on.   When Pieter De Villiers - to his credit - refused to play ball with the Watsons, they started a dirty campaign to discredit him.    They are and have always been poison - so please leave them out of the issue.

Meyer has a dilemma with the politicians - but recently the latter made less noise than they did in the past as the politicians may be too busy fighting amongst themselves.  Hopefully the situation will not get out of hand.again.   On the other hand - the position of Bafana also plays a roll.   The latter team never seems to perform and when Igusund got the appointment as a coach - I belivee he got more sympathy cards than well-wishing ones.   

I believe that Meyer should follow the guideline that when two players are on par in performance - the selection should go to the the player of colour.    That is always a safe option in SA.   The problem is tthat it is not always followed - often with disastrous results.

We have ample proof of quota selection in the past - just think of a player like Earl Rose as an example.  The signs are out that the thunder will break lose around Elton Jantjies sooner rather than later - that is why he was on the bench - without any real intention to use him.

As I said earlier - we have players qualifiying to play internationally on merit and the issue of quotas should never be a consideration.   I saw a typical example of merit performance today - when Louis Botha HTS - comprising only players of colour  - gave Oakdale Agricultuural School a very hard time.  Lets hope we can always field merit teams and that players of colour comes through more and more.  

  

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jul 2012, 10:42
#3
05 Jul 2012, 10:42#3

Lets cut out  all the rubbish and say it like it is. Its very simple really. You pick on MERIT. Nothing else will do.

If you do not pick on merit only but take colour into account you are picking on race and are a racist.

END OF STORY.

Juan De jongh- Over Missie  - possibly but Olivier was one of the best Boks on the field and gave his detractors the finger. would de jogh have been better. What exactly has de Jongh done thus far for the Stormers?

-Aplon- (Sideshow Bob affro?) Not a better fullback tha Lambie. Aplon threatens much but achieves little. 

-Siya Kolisi over what ever his name was in the 3rd test but got replaced early in the 2nd half.  Kolisi is highly overated. I have watched this guy and really he is being hyped fo racial reasons. Jaque Potgieter was the better choice agains the poms. Kolisi too has faded as the season has progressed - he has a lot to prove and will never remotely be in the class of a Schalk Burger. He is more of  akeegan daniels type of player but a little more physical. Can play the role of a wandering loosie.

-Chilly Boy- Strauss. No contest Strauss is way ahead. Chilli boy better watch out the bulle could find, and should strive to find,  a better player. Cant understand how anybody with half a brain cell would bother with a comparison.

Mvovo well where is he supposed to come in - both wings in the Bok side are men of colour anyhow. What about JJ or van der heever.or Willie Roux who is a leading try scorer.

No Meyer cant really be faulted and I hope he continues to take a colour blind approach. The racist politicians if anything should take a look at the haplesss all black bafana banana.

One last thing - Beast will be out if Coenie comes back. This romance with the non performing Beast is about to end unless the guy decides to get going. Long gone are the days when a whole auditorium would cry out Beast! He is in a comfort zone  - confident his colour will keep him in the side- a serial loafer. Hardly makes a meter in the drive these days. 116 kg lightweight prop. The guy should be turned into a hooker - has nice pace an dcoul dshine in this position.

Habana and JP are merit selection.

Sorry but I am 1000% aganst racist selections. Affirmative selections are racist selections because colour is a consideration. So scrap all the obfuscation and select only on merit. Leave the racist stuff to the imploding, corrupt, dense and inefficient anc.

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
05 Jul 2012, 11:40
#4
05 Jul 2012, 11:40#4

Mmmm....always a tough one this subject, but I like what I'm hearing from Mike, ie. "If two players are of equal performance, then it should go to the black dude" I can elaborate a little further and say that it should go to the player that fits the game plan best.

 

When is my beloved SA gonna get over this besotted race and colour issue, ek is gatvol oor die saak!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jul 2012, 11:45
#5
05 Jul 2012, 11:45#5

Why in the world should it automatically go to the black person.That Green is a racist viewpoint even if unintentional. 

No two players are identical in any case and one will be a better fit than than another etc etc.

SA will move from being a racist state when we adopt the merit principle -  very simple really.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Jul 2012, 12:10
#6
05 Jul 2012, 12:10#6

A couple of things. Firstly, Sharkbok, Aplon and "Sideshow" are the same colour, so I am not sure where you are going with that? Secondly, Kolisi never played for the Boks, he was never even in the squad, so I am not sure what third test replacement you are talking about.

 

As for the race thing, there are plenty "players of colour" available to be picked on merrit in South Africa. With time, and with development at the roots of rugby, more and more "players of colour" will come through to the top level and then the precentages will sort themselves out.

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Jul 2012, 12:37
#7
05 Jul 2012, 12:37#7

Of those players - Kolisi, Chiliboy and Mvovo should have made the match 22 on merit.

I am with Meyer on players like de Jongh and Aplon - they are too small for modern day test rugby

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
05 Jul 2012, 13:11
#8
05 Jul 2012, 13:11#8

@ Beeno, i hope you not implying that I made a racist comment because if you read my post carefully then you will see that I commented on what Mike said about giving it to the darker fellow if in the event they are evenly matched. Thats not racist, it's proper affirmative action based on merit and after considering what black people went through during the apartheid years, its about time they enjoy a head start, but only if based on merit, ie. being evenly matched with a white counterpart. Blacks players were not even considered during apartheid, so where do you get off classing a redress sytem as being racist....c'mon Beeno, black people of South Africa deserve a bit of a favouritism based on merit after what they had to endure in their own native country.

 

What i agree with, is that the affirmative candidate must first and foremost be of the required standard expected of the position, and if so, should be favoured to get the job. You see this as racist, because you are only looking at the immediate problem without seeing the big picture which is based on past exclusion based on race. It stands to reason that to address the imbalance of the past, that the equally talented black candidate be favoured and it not be viewed as racist but as a mechanism to address the wrongs of the past. I aint no politician, but I feel for those who suffered under the indignity of the past regime and are now trying to find their rightful place in the international community.

 

Peace out and may the best team win.

 

 

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
05 Jul 2012, 13:19
#9
05 Jul 2012, 13:19#9

Green, "Affirmative action based on merit" I like that!

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
05 Jul 2012, 13:29
#10
05 Jul 2012, 13:29#10

Bluebok, that was Clevermike's idea, I just elaborated on it because I agree...

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
05 Jul 2012, 15:31
#11
05 Jul 2012, 15:31#11

Beeno to clarify- 

Mvovo- could have been on the bench, instead of the bulls wing.

Sideshow Bob affro- I must admit I do not know if he is officially a player of colur. Historically their has been people within the white community that appeared to be of mixed race but perhaps were not classified as such. Bjorn Basson the Bulls wing could be the same. I knew people in school during Apartheid that were of such decent. 

Olivier- Best bok on the field? He had a "decent" 3rd test. his time on the field in the other tests he had a few tackles- hardly the best back on the field. It was more of the one dimensional stuff we expect from Missie. Dejongs tries scored vs Missie is no match for the boks. How many games has Missie been given.?

Aplon- again could have on the bench instead of the Bulls wing. 

-Siya Kolisi Jaque Potgieter- The better choice? He got subbed at the start of the 2nd half and a poor game. He never got over the advantage line once, and was no where in the rucks. 

-Chillyboy- I have seen nothing at Springbok level from Strauss except the scrums fall apart and lineouts as well. He seems to walk around from ruck to ruck as a spectator. 

I think that you are missing the point. It is not just right and wrong. It is about having a goverment of politicians who will start meddling and sabotage efforts like in the Jake White era.

During the 2007 Worldcup- Jake White got called home to answer to the SARFU and the politicians- They were more interested in furthering their own agendas than the actual results at  the world 2007 cup. This could have derailed the whole world cup for the boks. Jake Whites tenure was marked by the politicians trying to intefere and accuse him of being a racist to lobby support for themselves.


Also, the comments by Mike is an informal agreement made along time ago. If 2 players are equal then the player of colour should be favoured just slightly. The point is "equal".  Selection should be entirely on merit- this has only be in play since 2004. This policy does not discriminate at all. 
 

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jul 2012, 16:19
#12
05 Jul 2012, 16:19#12

Green you poor brainwashed guilt ridden whitey!

Look I sense you are a decent person but unfortunately you have no clue.

The basic argument here in SA is that if it wasnt for the bad whiteys all blacks would be first world beaters.

Ufortunately for that argument I have lived in other parts of Afrcica and know apartheid had very little to do with it. The fact is the rest of Africa is more backward than here. You do realise there was not apartheid in the rest of Africa.  Africa needs to get on with things and stop blaming everyone else.

To give you an example - in figures I  saw - Africa (with its immense resources) produces only 1.9% of world GDP. South Africa 0.6%. Take out the GDP generated as a consequence of outside powers/peoples how much would be left where you can say it is African generated. OZ , which is largely desset, and has a small population of some 20 million produces 1.6% of world GDP.

Africa has done zip for centuries and blames all and sundry for its backwardness. Here in South Africa we have a government busy looting state coffers, ruining the education and health system and generally screwing the place up with their incompetence and corruption. We are sliding down the ranks of competitiveness and business is locating elsewhere. Investment in mining is at a standstill and whereas we have huge potential the country is deteriorating.

In zim its all the fault of the British etc etc etc. No I admire folk like the Japs who have no resources but are the third largest economy in the world.

Nothing it taken into account here of how much benefit has come  through the involvement of people who are not black. Personally I have no doubts at all I would have been far better off in a first world country than here. we pay alot of tax here but government services like health and education means you need to paly againand go private. Menwhile an estimated R30 billion a yea rgoes awol throughfraud andtenderpreneurship pusing up costs etc. An enormous figure for an econmy our size. Municpailities collapse through orruption and cadre deployment as do state owned enterprises which have continually to be bailed out by government using large amounts of taxpayers money. Escom, a government owned entity, tells government that in seven years time powers shortages would occur unless new power stationms are built. Seven year on tha tis exactly what happens!! 

They claim we whiteys are advantaged. Well of course we are because wherever we go, on whatever continent we achieve first world standards. Africa never has done - neither here nor anyhwere. Apartheid is a useful stick to beat whiteys with but cannot explain why the rest of Africa is far worse off. Are folk in Africa under educated because of aparthied or starving because of apartheid or disease ridden etc etc. Africa doesnt even need to  invent a thing - all they need to do is copy what works!
 

Apartheid didnt do us any favours but it is being used to make a false diagnosis and to cover up severe short comings of the curret regime.

So away with any racist notiton that any selection, if in doubt, should aways go a a black person. That is race based selection and is racist. No two players/persons are identical. Pick what you think is the best black or white person and stop all this crap. You will never build a harmonious country on race based selections.

When one thinks of what was done to blacks also ask yourself where would they be if no one had come here. Ask yourself what blacks did to blacks (There is no mention of that). How many thousands of years would need to pass  before they were priviy to all there available is today. Would zuma, that champion of the poor,  be able to now order a presidential jet for R2 billion and live in a mansion of splendour and drive an expensive merc etc etc if no whiteys and others peoples  had arrived in Africa. No he would be living in a pole a dagga hut at standards thousands of years before Roman times even as many in Africa still do even today. I have seen these conditions with my own two good eyes. Facts that cannot be swept under the carpet.

Blame the whitey if you will for his faults but on balance the benefits transferred have been of incaluable worth  - these are never factored into the equation as it is not convenient to do so. 

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Jul 2012, 16:46
#13
05 Jul 2012, 16:46#13

Eish Beenkop, you are going to get klapped for this one - be strong, hide in the trenches if all else fails!!

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jul 2012, 16:51
#14
05 Jul 2012, 16:51#14

Comments are welcome. But lets deal with facts please. No race cards etc. Refute what I have said with reason and logic.

No snapster one gets weary of all this rubbish. I just wish these guys would take a look at Africa with their own eyes and they would wise up fast. How gullible do you get.

 

LU
lunaticClub Pro305 posts
05 Jul 2012, 17:04
#15
05 Jul 2012, 17:04#15

 @Beeno1 - July 05, 2012, 08:42:16

 

You have my support! 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
05 Jul 2012, 18:17
#16
05 Jul 2012, 18:17#16

Thanks Lunatic.

I would say clearly  that I do not support the abuse of people whatever their colour or beliefs. What is bad about all this now is that the only way the anc can keep power is by demonising their opponents and blaming them for their own serious shortcomings.  However I read Business Day, the Financial Mail and so on and I am at times encouraged to realise that a number of black folk see through all this rubbish. Trouble is the electorate is largely ill informed and are  votting fodder for these scoundrels. They have little or no idea of what is happening as they live in rural areas etc etc. Slowly however with service delivery issues mounting and news seeping through they become more aware one hopes.

But as ou Abe said you cannot fool all the people all the time. But how long will it take for the realisation to dawn that the people of this country are being badly shortchanged by our governors. 

Apologies to all for this rant but I get seriously annoyed at the whole crazy mess given we are not a poor country in terms of what we have been blessed with. There is absolutely NO need for the grinding poverty and lack we see so often. Its all about good governance in the end.

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
05 Jul 2012, 18:59
#17
05 Jul 2012, 18:59#17

 Sport is played to enjoy and WIN.

Selection on merit only.....never mind skin colour.

Beeno your comments are spot on.

I also have lived/worked in other parts of Africa.....and have lived through their achievements.

Green and Gold is for all South Africans...white/brown/black/50-50 as long as they are selected on merit,

AND WIN!!!!!

Springbok/Sharks supporter whatever the colour.

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
05 Jul 2012, 19:00
#18
05 Jul 2012, 19:00#18

Beeno, its late man, I'll come back tomorrow with a response. PS: can you keep yours down to a paragraph of about 5 to 7 lines, lol...

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
05 Jul 2012, 19:07
#19
05 Jul 2012, 19:07#19

All I can say Beeno is thank goodness I am far far away from all that crap..........where I live, we only have the weather to bitch about - it rains too much

OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
05 Jul 2012, 22:37
#20
05 Jul 2012, 22:37#20

 Would also like to see more players of color in the Bok setup and the ones you mentioned deserved serious consideration. Only on merit though, and I don't think the "tie-breaker" should ever come down to race but rather something objective like game plan.

 

If SARU was serious about promoting and developing the sport among non-whites they could easily have a team similar to the NZ Maoris (heritage team). Would serve a couple of purposes: 1) provide a platform for inspiration and promotion of the game and 2) clearly demonstrate which players are ready for the next step up.

 

I could see it being a great success and benefitting the Bok setup.  

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
06 Jul 2012, 02:21
#21
06 Jul 2012, 02:21#21

Beeno you have gone off on another tangent and its very presumptious of you to assume that I am a white person and arrogant to assume that Africa should be grateful for the presence of the white man in his continent. You are spot on when you say the African would not be enjoying the advancements of the modern world, but did he ask to be invaded and have this way of life forced on him.

 

Indigenous cultures the world over have always lived in harmony with their land, without destroying, polluting and gutting it in the name of advancement and how can you just assume that they were looking for a different way of life.

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, I categorically state that if there are evenly matched candidates for selection, that it go to the player of colour provided he fits in the gameplan. The previous government favoured white people over blacks and you expect this advantage not to be addessed. 

Don't get me wrong, I know the government is incompetent, but the underlying principle of seeking healing through redress is one which I 100% agree with.

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jul 2012, 11:24
#22
06 Jul 2012, 11:24#22

Green pea I couldn't care if you are black, bown, white or green. .

Africa should be extremely grateful for what whiteys and others have contributed to the developement of the continent. If not for them Africa would be 2000 BC  or worse.

No one is forcing black Africa to come into the modern world but green pea they prefer modern clothes to animal skins, modern homes to leaf huts, modern transport of cars to walking, modern medicine and dental care to snakeoil stuff etc etc etc etc etc. They by their own choice  want what the modern world offers and who can blame them as it in infinitely superior to what they had achieved by their own efforts.  They prefer to live modern rather than in the idyllic primitive state you mention. Your comment is rediculous. Name me one African state that is not of its own volition at least trying to become more modern. Who in his sane mind would want to live as a primitive!!! 

They did not have to toil for all these things over millenia but it all came with the presecence of foreigners. The advantages they received far, far, far outweigh the negatives. Without this input they would still be thousands of years behind. So they have been hugely advantaged NOT disadvataged on balance. Hence when you consider this issue look at all the facts. Yet now they wish to use the issue of them being disavataged to racially discriminate against minorities.

There are als oways to handle things. Eg land - the government has huge quantities of land rthey could make available to emmeging farmrs. However they prefer to buy productive white farms and hand them over to people to then ruin them and leave the land unproductive!!!!  Zim has shown the folly of many of these actions and the majority have not benefited at all by ha thas occured as a consequence. Grean pea do you live here as you seem ignorant of realities. Just hope tha tmalema is dea dpolitically - what tha tclown has cost this countr yin investment and jobs beggars beleif. How does a oaf like him obtain a position like he did?

The government is incompetent!!!!!! A masterful understatement and smacking of you being an apologist for the anc green pea. Our president has some 783 charges of fraud, corruption and money laundering against him. The government is thoroughly corrupt and abounds in corrupt inefficient cadres. These are facts and litter our newspaprers daily. It goes way, way beyong incompetence - incompetence which has arisen to a significant degree because of affirmative action removing competent folk from their postions. Today governmental posts are even left unfilled because there are no black candidates!!!!! Education flounders and even other african states do better than us when spending less on education per child thereby forfeiting the hopes of future generations. No discipline is boughtto bear on wayward teachers  The whole thing stinks to high heaven. It is appaling what goes on here in the name of racist affirmative action and employment equity an deven BEE.  

So NO pick on merit and scap any notion of affiramtive action which is racist and leads to underachivement and failed human relationships. There is absolutly no reason for anybody to be preferred because of his skin colour in a non racist state. Discriminating against minorities will not bring healing. The huge consensus amongst minorities that I encounter  is that this affirmative action is racist.

Many worthwhile folk, not only white, have left these shores taking skills and capital. I am hoping my own kids get out as why in the world should they spend their time building a country that discriminates against them and has incompetent corrupt people governing the country and squandering its resources and then trying to say its all the whiteys fault.!!!!! 

Beeno not proud to be a south african  but still a Bok supporter - if that is contradictory I couldnt give a fig.

Get rid of this disgusting anc shambles, elect a competent, honest and accountable government and there is a future for all. Continue with this garbage and we will continue the slide. Its over to the black electorate really.

Green pea your lack of outrage is telling.

 

GR
greenClub Pro179 posts
06 Jul 2012, 11:35
#23
06 Jul 2012, 11:35#23

Wow Beeno, where were your anti-racist protestations when the white minority were trampling and excluding the right of a black person to an equitable chance at life?

 

No doubt I can see you are gatvol, but redress of past imbalances is necesary and will be around for a while, accept it and move on my brother. End of this discussion for me...

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
06 Jul 2012, 12:00
#24
06 Jul 2012, 12:00#24

 

green
 
Status: Baby Bok 
Posts: 79 RE: Affirmative Selection vs quota Selection
July 06, 2012, 09:35:31

Wow Beeno, where were your anti-racist protestations when the white minority were trampling and excluding the right of a black person to an equitable chance at life?

 

No doubt I can see you are gatvol, but redress of past imbalances is necesary and will be around for a while, accept it and move on my brother. End of this discussion for me...

 

 

Redressing the imbalances of the past will be done by uplifting and improving things for the "previously disadvantaged". Redress of past imbalances will never be achieved by only "getting the numbers right", which is exactly what is being done. The failures of the "redressing-process" outweighs the successes by far.

Leave a reply:

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jul 2012, 15:09
#25
06 Jul 2012, 15:09#25

Green pea I grew up in Zimbabwe and Zambia although was born in SA and vote dfor the de Klerks reforms.

What imbalances and who caused them. Were black folks in SA worse off than in the rest of Africa or were they living at a level simalar or better to other Blacks in other African countries. Whites in Sa lived genrall yspeaing at a similar level to other european countires and balcks in Sa lived at a level similar or better than other blacks in other African countries. To say its the whites fault that whites in Sa are responsible for blacks not living at firs tworld standards is madness. Their disadvantage has to be laid squarely on the own shoulders. There is not a single black African state even today that has anything remotely near a first world level of living for its citizens dispite everything bing on hand and there being no need to reinvent the wheel.  Whose fault is that.

The fact is green pea this disadvantage nonsense is being used to beat up on minorities and deflect attention away from their own dismal failures. I do note today however certain black voices being raised saying they cant forever be blaming everyone else and apartheid (how long did that last in the bigger scheme of things)   - which is very refreshinhg and t obe welcomed as honest ywill always lead to better things. No the reason blacks in Africa didn't advance like some other races is something not rooted in apartheid but in various other factors. Hence to blame the whites and apartheid etc is a huge lie  and lies are never helpful when it comes to dealing with issues.

As for the redressing issues please factor in what is owed to whites in respect of their contributions in the areas I mentioned etc and the excessive taxes we have paid to support folk not earning. We are owed billions and billions - the difference between a country at a level 2000 years BC and what SA is today because without our input and the input of other foreigners SA would still be 2000 BC.

I have no problem with the upliftment of the poor but reject entirely the notion the African predicament is anything but  thier own fault. Their current squandering of resources by corrupt anc cadres appalls me.

The  redressing proces is assumed by halfwits will have no repercussions. However capital an dskills slip through your finger like water. Talk of nationalisation of the mines is a good example. The governmet cant run anything but wants to spend trillions it does not have to run and an industry it couldnt possibly run. As this talk goes on we find no investment taking place in mines. Labour is becoming extremely expensive in world terms so and cant be fired so business owners are mechanising as are farm owners.  Capital and skills leave. So now we have a very small tax base trying to support a far larger population etc etc - the downward spiral.

Only a complete idiot could think the stupid things being done here will succeed-  Idiots like mad Bob and wee julius.!

End of story!

 

 

BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
06 Jul 2012, 17:41
#26
06 Jul 2012, 17:41#26

 Green pea read this sort of thing day by day and you too might get outraged.

Former prosecutions boss Vusi Pikoli has called on government to clamp down on corruption and fraud, the Herald Online reported on Friday.

"Corruption is anti-constitution and is extremely costly and requires strong political will," he said at the monthly Coega Business Forum in Port Elizabeth on Thursday night.

"Look at Port Elizabeth, for instance. Walmer is burning because of housing delivery protests. There shouldn't be such protests because it is not like housing is not budgeted for."

Pikoli said the country's leaders were in denial.

"We sometimes hear our leaders saying 'there is no crisis', when there clearly is one," he said.

"Often, we see political leaders steal public funds today, but still occupy their office tomorrow. The next day they are appointed to higher office... to do more damage to the economy."

The leadership vacuum and lack of accountability contributed to the increasing levels of corruption, also in private companies, that were ruining South Africa.

"We need [business, political and community] leaders who stand up for what's right, irrespective of the consequences," he said.

Pikoli was fired as National Director of Public Prosecutions after an inquiry into his fitness to hold office.

The inquiry did not find that he was not fit to hold office, but he was fired nevertheless.

Cases he had handled included the eventual successful prosecution of the former national commissioner of police Jackie Selebi.

These guys are worse than nz ref of the year Bryce Lawrence- now how bad is that!

sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,301 posts
07 Jul 2012, 03:09
#27
07 Jul 2012, 03:09#27

 I think we shall soon see some goverment interference into the selection of the bok team- especially if we have a good Championship with a team just about 100% white.

AJ
Arthur JohnPro1,748 posts
08 Jul 2012, 18:20
#28
08 Jul 2012, 18:20#28

 Guys lets not fight the political war on a rugby site.

 

But do remember the present RSA government is only doing what the white government did between 1948 and 19xx.......

Feathering their own nests for votes and giving jobs/money to kin..

 

 

BL
Blue2Rookie58 posts
08 Jul 2012, 18:54
#29
08 Jul 2012, 18:54#29

Beeno1..........Helen Zille in drag!!!

Now run off and build more open toilets in the veld for your people!!!

 

— END OF THREAD —

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