Alistair has some thinking to do

Elstadt and Etzebeth -- it’s not difficult to imagine that overseas commentators are going to get quite confused about those two names, and how to distinguish the one from the other, in the coming months.

DHL Stormers coach Allister Coetzee, back in Cape Town after seeing his team scrape home in their first away game of the Vodacom Super Rugby season in Johannesburg, is in the enviable position of having to decide between the two impressive, aggressive No 4 locks for Saturday’s crunch top of the log derby against the Vodacom Bulls at Newlands.

The pair in question are of course Rynhardt Elstadt and Eben Etzebeth. The former was one of the finds of last season, and Bakkies Botha was among the big name players that he terrorised during an impressive first season as a Super Rugby player. But Elstadt started the season late because of injury, and 20-year-old Etzebeth has taken full advantage of the opportunity offered him by delivering four thunderous performances in the No 4 jersey.

Elstadt returned to rugby last week with an impressive performance against the Sharks in a Vodacom Cup game, where he played 65 minutes. And by all accounts he was even more impressive this past weekend as Western Province defeated the EP Kings.

Stormers coach Allister Coetzee was already tempted to use Elstadt in the match against the Lions, and eventually only decided against it as he felt the player would gain more out of playing the bulk of a game than by coming off the bench. Coetzee has confirmed that he is considering Elstadt for the game against the Bulls -- the need to get Elstadt sharp for the derby was why he was so eager to see Elstadt pick up more game time in the WP team.

Given that everyone knows the impact that Elstadt can have on a game, the question really revolves around whether Coetzee starts with Elstadt and plays Etzebeth off the flank, or does it the other way around. It’s a difficult question to answer, with continuity and the fact that he is a superior lineout forward giving the incumbent the edge at this stage.

Of course Etzebeth is equally at home as a No 5 lock (some would say he is even more at home as he has played most of his career as a middle of the lineout jumper) so there is always the chance the two fearsome Stormers second row forwards could find themselves playing as a combination should Andries Bekker be injured or a decision made to rest him in the future.

Elstadt played 77 minutes against the Kings and there is no longer any doubt over his readiness to make a full return to top level rugby after an absence of nine months (he was injured in the Super Rugby semifinal last year and missed the Currie Cup).

I would like these two youngsters to start sometime soon. Both nice physical locks.

Alistair should think of playing Elstadt 7. Then lets get physical with the bulle and show them who is BAAS! Bulle ar confused about this at the moment!

 Its a simple solution - rotate Etzebeth, Bekker and Elstadt at lock - dont waste any of them as loosefowards.

When Schalk returns, play him at 7 where he belongs, play Kolisi at 6 and Vermeulen at 8. That leaves Carr and Koster as subs

I note jaque potgieter is playing 6 at times for the bulle.  Try Vermule(a la Louw) there with koster at 8 and Elstadt at 7 where he has played before. A nice 940 odd kg pack to rout the bulle. Bring on the show ponies later when the job is done and they can do the glory boy stuff.

Out muscle the bulle and they fall apart.

No Beeno it does not work like that. Weight in a pack stands for nothing when your loose trio lacks balance. The best sides have true fetchers to strike a balance. I know I like big players and big packs, but your obsession with size even puts me to shame. Its not about a huge 8 man pack its about having big powerful props and locks, a strong mobile hooker, two meduim to large loosies and one smaller mobile pacy lad that is first to the breakdown, a turnover merchant and a good link player.

The ideal pack has its locks and props at 120kg, hooker 105kg, 7&8 around 105 to 110kg and your 6 at 100kg - that would give you a pack weight of 905kg which is more than enough

DAve you lack a big man's vision.

If Louw had not departed to Bath we would have had a Burger, Vermulen and Louw combo again this year. We will still hav ebeen close to 940 kgs. Man How that pack would hav emunched the bulle big time.

You cant actually tell me I am wrong because nobody has fielded a 940 kg pack. But what one can say is that Burger, vermulen and Louw werea top loose forward combo of BIG men. Vermulen should have been a Bok by now given Kan kan , Johnston, Deysel etc etc are all Boks.

Also Bissie is 111 kg and Liebenberg 114 kg. So hookers can be around 110 kg without a problem.

Your loosies are a bit to small and ditto your hooker.

About 5 years behind the times but not as bad as the good doctor (and some others) re those microlights he is punting!

Hahahahahhahaha no take it from me Dave - if Alistair twiggs and does what I say beware any sides opposing the Mighty Stormers!

At the world cup, largely because of wee matfield and brussouw we had a pack the size of any other country. Please remember Dave we are the big boys of rugby although today we have lost the true Bok ethos and have fallen prey to the show pony forward. We even have lunatics suggesting Daniels is a Bok contender. Its sidesplitting stuff!!!!

Beeno, Brussow is freakishly strong. You point to his size yet ignore his physique! Easily the second strongest Bok at the World Cup. Added to that, you say he has done nothing this year yet look at his tackle count alone. Your proposed Bok combo would be trounced.

Sorry Card but I have not proposed a Bok loose trio but was talking about the Stormers. Assuming the current pack is okay and we added Burger, Louw and Vermulen we would be close to the magical 940 kg mark and would I assure you give the bulle a severe snotklap. Especially if they reverted to wee stegsies and potty.

As for wee brussouw if he is so strong why is he continually knocked off the ball and making very few steals these days. Maybe not getting supposrt, maybe being small he cant hold his position - louw seemed better at this point. Maybe the rules not working in his favour these days? Fact is the poaching currently has fallen off dramatically. Not snce the Lions series has he been a real force

I remain opened minded re brussouw but  I do need results Card. He is not in the Bok team for his pretty face but becasue of what he can do. I keep hearing what a poacher of the ball he is but wait in vain for actual concrete results. I am not talking about one steal per game etc.

Beeno, you are speaking complete kak again. Louw is as much a 6 as Schalk is - neither are openside flankers and have 3 brute loosies is just stupid. Your pack lacks balance and would get run off their feet. You fail to grasp the need for balance, playing a monster pack and bullying sides is just not a reality.

I have no issue with a 110kg hooker as long as its not useless Liebenberg.

The options for the Bok pack are in order:

Looosehead: Beast, Kirshoff, M.v/d Merwe, Coenie

Hooker: Bismark, Chiliboy, Strauss

Tighthead: Mujati, Jannie, Russouw de Klerk, Malherbe, Frik Kirsten

Locks: Bekker, Eztebeth, Flip, Elstadt, J.Kruger, JA Marais, Quin Roux

Openside flankers: Brussouw, Daniel, Kolisi

Blindside: J.Strauss, Schalk, M.Coetzee, Alberts, CJ Stander, Louw, Potgieter, Arno Botha

8th Man: Spies, Vermeulen, Kankan

Dave you bleating hatter you seem to forget that the Stormers finished 2 on the log twice in recent years. If our loosies were not the deal that would no thave happened. Burger wil lprobably play 6 fo rtheBok sagain given brussouw'sstruggles.

Get with it Dave join the elite thinkers on the game like Rassie and Beeno.

I do trust you have noticed my post re Alistaire harkening unto Beeno. Yes he is playing Elstadt at seven. All we are missing is the mighty Burger and a decent backline coach.!!

This could be a watershed moment for SA rugby where we rediscover our roots. Burger will however be missed.  I turst also Elstadt is fit and ready and ditto Deon Fourie.

Keer vir die pink bulle 'n groot packslae asseblief Stormers!  Hope ou windpomp doen' t make the trip to Newlands in his pink jersey his health could suffer!

Louw was utterly savaged at test level. Yes, he did a wonderful job in one of two Italy tests, and against a woeful French side hailed in Paris as the worst ever, but nothing else.
As for Brussow. Brussow does not get knocked off the ball; though he does at times ride the tackle once he latches onto the ball, the opposition then effectively push him back to present the ball cleanly. You want knocked off the ball? Watch Bismarck as it's happened repeatedly in every game this year. You do not judge a fetcher solely on steals, though that is something Brussow does do very well. They target the right situations and disrupt the opposition breakdown. Minus Brussow the Cheetahs and Boks lack that presence at the breakdown and it becomes horribly onesided. You point solely to the Lions tour, yet Brussow's impact was felt all the way through the 2009 campaign, right up to the EOYT. He kept us in that French game and saved our bacon multiple times against an Italian side that nearly won.

With regards to the team dynamic, the Saffers are generally not very good at creating quick contestable attempts at the ball. The Brumbies actually are doing this the best. They use a nice chop technique which lets the ball carriers momentum carry them over and create the narrowest possible gate at the breakdown. The second defender then has a very quick shot at the ball. Hooper is thriving. Brussow does not get that kind of benefit, though he does disrupt the breakdown quite well. Just the passed week he prevented guaranteed Crusader's tries on several occassions. No other South African can match Brussow. Right now his only competition is Hooper. Added to that, Brussow is by far the most well rounded 6 out there. Every aspect of his game is world class. His speed, mobility, freakish strength, endurance, great hands and linking play, brutal defence and top class decision making are unmatched. When he carries the ball he makes the kind of yards that Spies, Burger, Alberts, Vermuelen, Louw, Strauss et al can only dream of.

Beeno, Burger wont play 6 for the Boks again as Meyer is not stupid enough to disregard one of the best fetchers in the game in Brussouw. Only an ignorant coach would select Schalk ahead of Brussouw at 6. It is just not going to happen. Schalk will have to compete against the likes of Josh, Coetzee, Alberts and co for the 7 spot.

Bok loose trio will be: 8.Spies 7.Schalk/Strauss/Coetzee/Alberts 6.Brussouw........the likes of Vermeulen, Stander and Kolisi will make good back-ups

brussouw will be lucky to keep his place in the Bok team as will Spiesies who simply does not do enough. One good run though and the spiesies fans are out in force waving the flag. 

Meyer will first pick Schalk and then the rest of his loosies. If he has any sense he will pick players like Schalk, Alberts and Vermulen and leav eall the show ponie sout o fthe equation. Get in a dominant tight five eand have some quicker forwards on the bench. That  gentelmen is the way forward.

No we dont want the Samoans man handling our pack by playing wee brussouw, wee matfield etc. Time to build  areal N=Bok pack and get back to ruling the rugby world.

By the way aristocat Louw had a great world cup. 

Bissie is now being compared to brussouw as to be knocked off the ball. Weider and weider it gets in wonderland. Bwahahahahahahahahhaha it is hilarious and keeps one coming back for more!