All Black Coach says Penalty Count does not Favour All Blacks

His logic is that the All Blacks get more penalties, so if anything they are not favoured. However, this does not factor in that the All Blacks may just infringe the law more often, or that red zone is the focal area. 

Usually, a team that is losing commits more penalties that the team that is winning - due to being under more pressure. A defending team will typically give away more penalties

The All Blacks surprisingly won more games last year- despite giving away more penalties. 

Cape Town - All Blacks assistant coach Ian Foster has stepped into the latest card - or non-card - debate, claiming that New Zealand's number of carded offences last year prove the side isn’t receiving preferential treatment by referees, according to the Rugby Pass website.

“You have to ask the referees that, but clearly we don’t think we get any favours from the referees at all,” he said.

“They’ve got a tough job and I don’t know a top referee that doesn’t go out there just ref it the way he sees it. Mate, as long as we can cheat we are happy" . 

“If you look at the penalty counts and yellow cards last year - weren’t we one of the top yellow-carded teams last year? I’m not sure how this ‘soft on us’ comes into fruition.”

The All Blacks finished 2017 with nine cards - one red and 9 yellow - which was one of the highest totals in international rugby. 

The Mighty All Blacks are leading yet another category in rugby but do we get congratulations from the SA posters on this site... no of course not. Com'on guys time to be good sports

a

Irish Times’ Second Captains radio show, Matt Williams has revealed a startling statistic regarding the All Blacks and their receipt of yellow cards.

Williams revealed that when compared to Australia and South Africa, the penalty to yellow card ratios are incredibly skewed in favour of the world’s top side.

On average, South Africa have received a yellow card for every 11 penalties conceded. For Australia it is every 12 penalties. 

However, for New Zealand, a yellow card is brandished on average only once every 43 penalties.

Whatever way you want to cut it, this is truly astounding. It has long been known that the All Blacks play close to the edge. They know where the limits are and they know how and when they can overstep. All good sides do. However, to be penalised 43 times before a card is brandished is simply phenomenal.

The AB's at cheating, much like everything else in rugby are just simply better at the moment.

Also it seems they are willing to infringe in their 22m to stop the other team scoring try's. 

Xavi

The AB;s for years have been infringing in the red zone to prevent scoring of tries - and te fact that serial offenders are not carded makes the situation really funny.   

I can remember a match between SA when one of their forwards were in fact carded.   In the next line-out Franks contravened the rules and another penalty followed.   Same story involving Franks in the succeeding line-out.  The next penalty and succeeding line-out Same story involving Franks in the third line-out as well.   Franks was never carded after those three incidents - If he was NZ would have been playing with 6 forwards for about 7 minutes in the relevant game and I think that was foremost in the referee's mind - fearful of being lynched?

This is what happens when you mix up your stats/info from different years...

"The All Blacks finished 2017 with nine cards - one red and 9 yellow" (10 total)

"However, for New Zealand, a yellow card is brandished on average only once every 43 penalties."

THEREFORE:

New Zealand apparently conceded 430 penalties in 14 matches????

Or they conceded 30.7 penalties average per match????

HAHAHAHA!!!! Shit arguments RULE!!!

The Trooth Fairy

If you do not understand about discussions on site -please do not show your ignorance so blatantly.

The comparative figure reflecting penalties and the comparative number of cards issued was iro of games played over five years from 2011 to the end of 2016/   This issue was discussed numerous ties in the past.

Just a bit of advice - you know zero about rugby and now this????????????????? .

In the past we have heard a lot of bleating from Boks supporters about the high penalty count of their team and how "unfair" that was. However, when it's the ABs it's an indication of cheating, etc. One has to chuckle

JW

I have no problems with the penalty issue on both sides- I merely dealt with the issue of carding of players through ill-discipline - eg the example of Franks mentioned.   

I think that in that case there was an uproar about the issue in 2016 and it is clear that the issue was dealt with through more stringent application in 2017.   However , it is not clear how many times the AB's were penalized in tests and whether those cardings are both for Test and Super Rigby - I believe it does in fact include both..  

@ Truth. It's just an average, not specific to any timeline so , uh what point are you trying to make?

On average, South Africa have received a yellow card for every 11 penalties conceded. For Australia it is every 12 penalties. 

Seems to accord with Bob Dyers complaint some years ago. 

This shit is something the irish came up with .

Truth is right and the truth is in 2016 when this garbage was put out there NZ conceded 9 penalties per game the same as Australia,and of those given for foul play [ 27 vs 85 at the breakdown].

NZ  7 yellow cards  or  18.52%  vs Australias  18.52 or one in five vs one in four.

Meanwhile same year Ireland was carded   7.69% and England 5.26% of foul play penalties or 1 in 13 [ Ireland] and 1 in 19 for England.

And in the same year the Irish were at one stage getting 3 penalties of any sort per game despite trying to rip Barretts head off among other crap.

So who is being favoured ? Facts eh ya gotta love 'em!

Mike so what you are saying is we should take the number of yellow and red cards in one year (2017 its 8 yellow/1 red or 9 yellow/1 red depending on what stats you look at, 1 of them is wrong) but we must then take all the penalties awarded against the All Blacks over 5 years?

Fact is if there were 9 cards handed out in 2017 and if that equated to 43 penalties per card then my maths put that at 27.65 penalties per test match (14 tests in 2017) or one every 2 minutes 53 seconds.

From the limited info I could find between 2012 and 2016 (5 full seasons of test footy) the All Blacks averaged 10.44 penalties (616 penalties over 59 test matches) over this time.

This is way short of 27.65 penalties per game. Can anyone find stats for last years tests that include the number of penalties per game so we can see if in fact the number of penalties we give away per game has tripled?

Heres a good one Cruse https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/8qsfig/referees_and_all_blacks_looking_at_evidence_and/

Thanks Wardad

Bet all the Saffas will ignore that and claim fake news status to it even thought they wont read past the first sentence. They dont like facts getting in the way 

Nah like that shithead -in-charge in the US some may well just go by their "feels"

Lol their "feels"

WD's young uns keeping him up to date with lingo.

Your short hiatus from the site saw you escape having to comment on the flying kick by Smith's padiwan. Which at the time I br ought it to your attention was called conspiracy.

My view is that when teams are being caught doing things like then one has to ask how much of what they are being coached to do is outside the laws of the game.

On Saturday, England were told to rattle and hurt Faf. That much was clear. But its not often you see NH teams clearly playing against the spirit of the game.

Kiwis don't like to hear it but there's watching everyone else play and then there's watching Kiwi teams. 

If we're were crybabies then we'd bemoan all our losses. Somehow, the kiwi games are always the most controversial.

Jeezum fucking crow your like a broken record [ ask yer olds about that ] maybe more people are watching the ABs more closely because like you they have some stupid illusory point to make that only they give 2 shits about .Or maybe more people with tall poppy syndrome like to nit-pick the worlds number 1 Rugby team as opposed to who-ever-the fark is at 6 or 7?

All you do is feed your bias with bullshit ,no disputing the actual stats eh ?

"

A former top referee claims there is subconscious leniency towards the All Blacks by officials.

Englishman Rob Debney, who was a professional referee for 12 years from 1999-2011, expressed his views via a column for The Times.

Debney analysed the performance of his compatriot, Luke Pearce, who copped criticism for his handling of New Zealand’s 52-11 win over France in Auckland last weekend.

READ: All Blacks branded cheats after France card row

Debney believes referees are scrutinised more closely when they are in charge of a match involving the world champions and No 1-ranked team.

"Once again the conversation is being dominated by claims that New Zealand always seem to get away with murder," Debney wrote in the English publication.

“If I had an answer as to why there appears to be a leniency towards them, I would be a professor in psychology, but it exists on a subconscious level. The accountability for taking a decision against them, the scrutiny it comes under compared with other teams, is incredible."

Debney said Pearce had "a really good game" but got the two decisions dominating the headlines wrong.

He believes the referee should have sent off All Blacks replacement prop Ofa Tu'ungafasi for using a shoulder in a double tackle on Remy Grosso with flanker Sam Cane that left the France wing hospitalised with two facial fractures.

"Yes, Grosso was falling in the collision but the onus is on the referee to make his ruling based on the outcome of an incident. Intent is not material in the decision. Did Tu'ungafasi's shoulder connect with Grosso's head? Yes. Red card," wrote Debney.

Debney also said France lock Paul Garillagues should not have been sin-binned for his tackle on Ryan Crotty "that barely warranted a penalty".

The yellow card opened the floodgates for the All Blacks, who trailed 11-8 at half-time.

"The France lock executed a 'seatbelt tackle', wrapping one arm over Crotty's shoulder and around his torso to halt the All Blacks centre, but his arm was nowhere near Crotty's neck. Pearce would have realised that, had he taken more time and checked the replay."

The above confirm that referees are in fact afraid to make decisions negatively affecting the All Blacks and that the decisions taken are normally to the detriment of teams playing against them.   The two cases on Saturday were detailed as examples where the ref got the situation wrong, but in general the situation is that there are frequent other cases as well in other games.

The problem came under serious scrutiny in 2015 and there was in fact a real outcry when it transpired that NZ players were not carded when they contravene rules and regularly should have been.   It was then when the fact came to light about NZ players being carded once in every  43 penalties against them.

After that storm the situation changed somewhat - hence the case of the stats for 2017 as raised in the above article.    However, it is rather one-sided stats - since it does not reflect the ratio between penalties awarded and cards being issued - as well as the issue of what happened to opposition teams.

Another factor is that the AB's do have the tendency to commit professional fouls to prevent tries being scored and that is where laxity on the part of the referees is pronounced.   Instead of stopping that in the first instance - the situation is often repetitive and not dealt with by referees.     

Ok WD...

Would this qualify as an objective and non biased question in your book?

"Which rugby team cheats the most?"

Edit:

Maybe that wasn't objective enough for you.

Try this...

"Does cheating exist in rugby?"

Enter those phrases into Google.

Welcome to reality.

Lol actually just enter...

"Cheat rugby -sheet"

The "-sheet" is there since the term "cheat sheet" contaminates the results with non rugby pages.

And thats based om what ? Sad gits opinions ? Or actual stats ?

The most carded player atm is Hooper a wallaby and guess who has as many penalties /cards and the like ? Wallabies for starters .

Mikey that "former top referee" never reffed an ABs game so yeah fuck him.

And fuck all your cry baby shit ,FFS try and act like men at least.

Lets go back to 2010 oaks where Beeno reported this important information that stunned the brain washed kbbs! Showing of course how Beeno has been onto kiwi cheating long long before ou maaakie woke up to all this stuff.

It's official! New Zealand are treated differently by referees to either of their Tri-Nations opponents.

Now, the official figures seem to prove the point. South Africa are the most regularly penalised, conceding six penalties per yellow card. The Australians' figure is remarkably similar - just seven per card.

But by the same calculations, the New Zealand tally is incredible. Official figures show they incur 43 penalties per yellow card, more than seven times the figure of the Springboks. This appears to reveal at best an extraordinary imbalance in the way the three countries are refereed and at worst, a complete lack of consistency by the match officials in the way they deal with the individual southern hemisphere nations. Some might suggest, on the evidence of these figures, that referees' tolerance of New Zealand indiscretions appear to know no bounds.

It also seems to bear out the view of certain Bok officials that there is one law for the All Blacks, quite another for their southern hemisphere rivals.

As Australia's former World Cup-winning coach Bob Dwyer said: "It is difficult to argue with the facts."

"There is nothing wrong with that so long as they do so within the laws of the game. It is here that I, and many others, question their tactics. Black-jerseyed tacklers finish on the ground, on the wrong side of the ball so often that I can't believe that it's by accident. This prevents their opponents from arriving quickly to support their teammate, and allows other All Black support to attack opposition ball on the ground. Further, opposition scrumhalves are having difficulty getting in close to clear the ball and are forced to 'lift' the ball for their pass to clear All Black bodies. This slows down the clearing pass and gives valuable time to the defence. And it's illegal."

The Australian also highlighted what he called New Zealand's "outrageously offside" positions when they enter the breakdown on their own ball.

"Sometimes they are clearing out opponents from positions a metre or two BEYOND the ruck/maul," he says. "This has the beneficial effect of limiting opposition hands to the tackle ball and allowing their 'early, long place' ball for instant recycle to their excellent support players. If any one doubts this, they should Google 'All Blacks at the Breakdown' and view an excellently compiled video from the Wellington Test against the Boks. It is even on the increase.

"All players play their part, and while McCaw, Franks and Smith have been serial offenders, Kieran Read has perfected his technique also. It is dramatically effective, it frequently brings tries - and it's illegal."

As for Google ? Yeah type in holocaust and see how many arseholes like stormfront and other holocaust denial shit comes up.

Dunno why I bother with you its just the same tiresome shit.So back to ignoring your envious shit ,and it is envy isnt it ? if the ABs werent Number one all the time and were lets say 5th or 6th no bastard would care would you ?

2010

I read a piece in yesterday’s Times by Stuart Barnes titled Yes, Richie McCaw is a cheat, but that is his job and what makes him great. It agrees (as I do) that to deliberately play outside the laws of the game is to “cheat”. To cheat is to take an unfair advantage on someone who is, or chooses not to play outside the laws of the game.

There are a lot of things you can’t do outside the laws of sport. Drugs for example. Anyone who takes them is rightly castigated and banned for a long time. In some sports you are absolutely ostracised if you play outside the laws. Take golf – no one will play with you.

The laws of the game aren’t there to hinder you – they’re there to help you. To make it so that everyone knows what’s going on.

However certain individuals  – and one team in particular – make a mockery of this; namely the All Blacks. McCaw is labeled the chief transgressor, although he’s not the only one.

Let’s be clear, no one doubts that this is a great All Blacks side – of any era. Which to me makes it even more insulting that they should want to break the laws to their advantage; it’s NOT OK to play outside the laws, and it’s NOT OK for respected commentators to say that’s reasonable (take note Stuart Barnes).

There’s a school of thought propagated by many All Black apologists that if you haven’t been caught you haven’t infringed. Clearly untrue. You’ve cheated, but just not been caught by the referee.

Richie McCaw’s latest transgression is that on their own ruck ball he comes in at 90 degrees at the line of the ball carrier ALL THE TIME – blocking the abilities for defenders to contest.

In the scrum the New Zealand flankers – especially if the scrum starts to turn – just detach and start to play at the ball with their outside foot – witness the image below from earlier this year.

In the semi final Kaino was sliding up the side of the scrum and doing the same thing. He was transgressing so many times it was as if he was asking for a card. The final straw for which he finally got one was just ludicrous!

One of the the other things New Zealand do are that if they get you going backwards at the breakdown with good low drive (full marks to them for that) they then all go off their feet over the ball and make it unplayable – resulting in them getting the feed. That’s illegal. They do it well and in numbers – perhaps that’s why they don’t get penalised?

But we certainly can’t intentionally play outside the laws of the game and no respected sports writer should condone it. These condoners will say “other people do it too”. Now, just because half a dozen people play outside the laws of the game doesn’t mean we shouldn’t penalise any of them, it means we should penalise all of them.

I used to say to my players that to deliberately give away a penalty is an insult to your team mates and the team. It says that you don’t believe they can win within the rules.

There’s a famous poem about sportsmanship called Vitae Lambada. The last line is

“Play up! play up! and play the game!”

As the poem says – it’s not about winning or fame, it’s about the game itself, and if our game is to continue to exist and grow then it cannot be OK that at certain levels a team and individuals be condoned to cheat.

The problem is genetic of course. We all love the kiwis but wish they could somehow stop cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time for Beeno to take another well earned bow! 

Time for kbbs to abjectly apologis e for their bad behaviour and bringing the noble game into disrepute - if da oaks know what that means!

Dont bother beandick no bugger v reads your cut and paste shit.

12 penalties to 4 ? Did someone pay off the ref in the Bok game last week ,sure looks like bias and or cheating .Refs favouring Boks eh ? They must be cheats.

lol WD

So an unbiased search term yielded results you didn't like?

The question is not why you should bother. 

Rather it should be why everyone should bother explaining to what everyone except you seem to understand. Oz, France, England, SA, Ireland...all such crybabies huh. 

Shall i add google to the list of "conspirators"?

Actually i did enter Holocaust into google...

It was full of valid information...on almost every page. I stopped after thirty pages of accounts, documentation, causes, effects and on and on and on.  

In fact there was very little about denying it. That was until i entered "holocaust denial". Even then the vast majority of information was about how holocaust denial is misinformation, nonsense and bollcoks.

So the internet seems to agree with your stance on the holocaust. 

It just doesn't agree with your view of kiwi rugby. 

Again. 

Welcome to reality sir.

Thanks Plum for your valuable assistance in educating poor warped DUD.Problem i s you know, he went to school in NZ !    

JW you can waffle and obfuscate all you like but the facts are facts. Hahaahahahahahhahahahahahaha the poor kbbs are out for the c ount!!!

Crispy bacon bits and maple syrup with pancakes might have worked in Cape Town tonight. Still raining. ...and no, these funny fillings on a pancake is not a Saffa or a Cape Town thing, it's a Draad thing. Iove them with grated cheese or apricot jam too.

Beeno, I'm not sure anyone understands your delusional ramblings...

I c ouldn't say it any better.

Plum I am pretty damn sure you know Google had to get rid of all the nazi fanboy garbage on "holocaust " searches and you know how google is manipulated purposely or not .

Hers something interesting from a Saffa rugby site.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/springboks-yellow-cards/

Make up your minds as to whether to whine about the ABs getting penalized too much or not enough ,unless your beanshit-for-brains you cant try and have it both ways.

WD 

All I am asking is why kiwi rugby seems to have become synonymous with cheating.

It's seems every country is accusing NZ of it. Players, coaches, journalists and fans.

Then when I google it, without even entering Kiwi or ABs, NZ feature more heavily in the results than all the other nations combined. Then I watch games and I see nefarious shit happening that I know other teams do not do...because I watch those teams as well. 

You call it biased but even someone who knows nothing about the game or NZ would come to a similar conclusion and ask the same questions when presented with the various avenues of opinion and evidence.

Despite that, I'm trying to get your view.

It could be collective jealousy. Can't rule that out. It would however been the first time that I've personally seen such orchestrated and overwhelming effort to brand a team/s cheats on the back of their success.

From the Lakers, to Waugh's best ever team and to the dominant Spanish football team that won everything for years. There was a veritable shit ton of envy and admiration yet never this level of accusation. 

One highly doubts the internet, Google or secret dark web groups are conspiring to label you cheats.

Again, is you final answer that it's all BS?

Pretend for a moment that you aren't a kiwi. Look at what's out there and then ask yourself how you would interpret it. 

All my drivel says ou warped dud the complete loon and the very dense dense. However look at what i posted. Articles by folk proving the case. Don't shoot the messenger folks. Deal with the issues raised which of course you cant. Bwahahhahahahaha what a couple of clowns!

Plum ou warped DUD is all froth and hot air. Probably posting from some sanatorium in OZ!!! Why they give the loon internet access is anybodies guess!