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All Blacks lose Messam and Whitelock - Planet Rugby

Started by 3ku119 REPLIES228 VIEWS· 07 Sept 2014, 14:44
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3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
07 Sept 2014, 14:44
#1
07 Sept 2014, 14:44#1

The All Blacks were counting the cost of their 28-9 Rugby Championship victory over Argentina as Sam Whitelock and Liam Messam were ruled out of Saturday's crunch Test against South Africa.

The medical report was not the news coach Steve Hansen wanted to hear as he began plotting how his defending champions could beat their closest rivals by attempting to run them into submission.

Hansen talked of playing "positive rugby" despite facing depleted ranks at lock and blindside flanker with Whitelock and Messam possibly out for four weeks.

The All Blacks top the standings halfway through this year's tournament after the previously unbeaten South Africa suffered their first loss, going down 24-23 to Australia.

Senior lock Whitelock was forced from the field in the first half with a damaged rib cartilage while flanker Messam injured a quadricep muscle when racing to score just on half-time.

"The worst case scenario is (they are) out for probably four weeks," said Hansen.

"Best case scenario - probably three.

With Messam injured, Steven Luatua, who could not make the matchday squad against Argentina, becomes the next available blindside flanker while first choice Jerome Kaino remains sidelined with an elbow injury.

The lock stocks are even more depleted with sixth-choice Jeremy Thrush likely to partner Brodie Retallick against South Africa.

Squad members Patrick Tuipulotu (ankle) and Dominic Bird (toe) are still a week away from being match fit while Luke Romano, who played 16 Tests in 2012 and 2013, suffered a broken leg during the Super Rugby competition ruling him out of the Rugby Championship.

Despite the injuries, Hansen declared himself "very happy" with the way the All Blacks outgunned Argentina, scoring four tries to nil on a wet night as they chanced their arm to run with the ball despite the greasy conditions.

All Blacks captain Richie McCaw added the side was fully committed to a 15-man game and rejected any suggestion of resorting to a kicking game if it is wet when they play South Africa in Wellington on Saturday.

"I don't think that suits us totally," he said.

"We want to be able, even when it's like that, to be better than the opposition, at being able to use our skills under pressure.

"You've got a bunch of guys from numbers one to 15 who want to run with the ball, play with the ball, and if we can create opportunities to do that regardless of the conditions I think that makes it pretty tough for the opposition."

VO
VoetsekRookie41 posts
07 Sept 2014, 14:46
#2
07 Sept 2014, 14:46#2
 Messam is no loss Whitelock is
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Sept 2014, 14:51
#3
07 Sept 2014, 14:51#3
 Messams ok but easily replaced and yes Whitelock is a harder fix.Still Jeremy Thrush isnt too bad .I wouldnt be surprised if Toupoluto was ushered back in.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Sept 2014, 15:15
#4
07 Sept 2014, 15:15#4
No one wants injuries but we are bringing other players in & giving them experience, Moody, Thrush, etc. Still need another hooker though.
RE
redsmanPro1,710 posts
07 Sept 2014, 15:25
#5
07 Sept 2014, 15:25#5

 I think Whitelock big loss - bok lineout to be dominant... but if they play anything like last night could be trouble for the bok.


I expect this to be much closer than Auckland game... bok will be hurting after close loss and kiwis could be a little complacent...

VO
VoetsekRookie41 posts
07 Sept 2014, 15:31
#6
07 Sept 2014, 15:31#6
 Don't rate Thrush at all very average lock
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Sept 2014, 16:06
#7
07 Sept 2014, 16:06#7
 cloudy wheres the abs forum ?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Sept 2014, 17:17
#8
07 Sept 2014, 17:17#8
All blacks forumWardad this is the link.  
CL
ClaydogClub Pro691 posts
07 Sept 2014, 17:38
#9
07 Sept 2014, 17:38#9
I read it too cloudy, thanks for the link JW. Clears a few things up I have been wondering about.
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
07 Sept 2014, 17:43
#10
07 Sept 2014, 17:43#10
 Thanks JW!
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Sept 2014, 17:46
#11
07 Sept 2014, 17:46#11
Claydog: There are only a handful of us who post on the AB site & almost all post here too. I have promoted sarugby.com on the AB site also to be fair about it.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Sept 2014, 17:49
#12
07 Sept 2014, 17:49#12
We still haven't heard from Sasuke San , he disappeared and is not on either site now. Do you have any news about him wardad ?
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,294 posts
07 Sept 2014, 18:46
#13
07 Sept 2014, 18:46#13
Whitelock is a big loss, the Matfield lineout will be rampant. Retalick is a great lock other than in the lineouts where he is hopeless. 
Messam gives the pack a physical edge and he will also be missed.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
07 Sept 2014, 19:01
#14
07 Sept 2014, 19:01#14
hi dr win, madame vice president, warhammer and lucky luke, long time no see my kiwi peeps,

losing whitelock is a huge loss considering weve got the Boks this weekeknd, IMO and the opinion of many experts n the world (john eales, kamo, martin johnson), whitelock and retallick are easily the best locks in the world, and i agree with that 100%.

its also my opinion that retallick is now the No1 lock in not just NZ, but the world.

still whitelocks absence will be missed, cos the Boks who have been average in 4 of their last 5 outings, will now be on high red alert as they prepare to lose to the All Blacks.

i would bring in patrick tuipulotu to partner up the 2nd row with retallick, but make sure i had steven luatua on the bench as lock cover, that will ensure the mobility side of things will still be easily in advantage of the All Blacks, continuing a trend which has been around since the two sides first palyed.

our loose forwards on the other hand is a little bit easier, as we have plenty of options.
the most logical is move king richie to the blindside and start sam cane, while bringing on victor vito to the bench.
vito had an awesome series against england, havent seen anyone make that level of im pact of the bench that vito did in the england tests.

i doubt these selections will be implemented though, instead the smart money says hansens forward pack will look like this,,,
1 w crockett, 2 d coles, 3 o franks
4 j thrush, 5 b retallick
6 king richie, 8 k read, 7 s cane

16 k mealamu, 17 j moody, 18 b franks, 19 p tuipulotu, 20 s luatua

my All Black forward pack would be,,,
1 b franks, 2 d coles, 3 o franks
4 p tuipulotu, 5 b retalick
6 king richie, 7 s cane, 8 k read

16 k mealamu, 17 j moody, 18 c faumuina, 19 s luatua, 20 v vito

the one thing for sure is the All Blacks as usual look healthy as a mofo,
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
07 Sept 2014, 19:28
#15
07 Sept 2014, 19:28#15
 Voetsel. Thrush may be avarage but matfiled isa positive liabilty.We do NOT need matfiled to rule the lineouts. Etzebeth, Lood, Louw and Vermuelen can do that on their own.Wake up Meyer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice to see ou saSUE back and chest beating for all he is worth depending as he does on RAWs. Are the wee abs about to come a cropper one wonders. Our performance in Oz was far more convincing than the one put up against a lesser wobblies side. Please note kbbs.
Ou mcaaaw must simply realise it's in his safety interests to stay very quiet, respectful and humble. 
The abs are there for the taking. Meyer please wake up!! This is not an opportunity to be missed. If England B were better than the wee abs how poor must we be to lose. 

AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
07 Sept 2014, 20:54
#16
07 Sept 2014, 20:54#16
 hey, naru, how you've been doing? long time since you last posted here, we've missed you.

Whitelock is IMO the most complete and therefore the best lock in the world. He's a huge loss and much more since the next 3 locks in the picking order are injured ("Patrick Tuipulotu (ankle) and Dominic Bird (toe) are still a week away from being match fit while Luke Romano,... suffered a broken leg ... ruling him out of the Rugby Championship").
The only options now are Thrush or Luatua.
I would play with Luatua at lock and bring Vito (as naru said his 2 short appearances in the june tests were outstanding) to play at blinside but I suspect he's also injured, he's not playing for Wellington.
In this case the only option is to play Luatua/Thrush at lock, one starting and the other one from the bench, switch McCaw to the blindside, Cane at openside and bring a new face to the bench. Having these two 7's I would bring Luke Whitelock who can cover 6 and 8.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
07 Sept 2014, 23:31
#17
07 Sept 2014, 23:31#17
Yes, Vito was injured some time back & I have not heard anything about him being available.
3K
3ku1Pro2,580 posts
08 Sept 2014, 12:21
#18
08 Sept 2014, 12:21#18
 Beeno NZ wan the series 3-0, please enlighten me on how an England B side were better? They were at the end of their season, NZ at the begginning they always start slow. Vito is the 2nd best 8 in the country, he should be in the Abs if he wasen't injured. 
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
08 Sept 2014, 20:44
#19
08 Sept 2014, 20:44#19
@basque fan,

long time no see buddy,

i dont think this is the first time weve had the retallick vs whitelock is better argument, and i know we could both give good solid evidence to back our points of views, so lets agree to disagree.
while i think retallick is the clear No1, i do think that whitelock is the No2 lock in the world.

but with the current lock crisis at the moment and the current info at hand, i would now have to say that steven luatua should be starting at lock with retallick and thrush on the bench.

thrush did a pretty solid job for the All Blacks in his limited game time last year, especially the test vs the wallabies, so im pretty comfortable with him there.

also cant luke whitelock play lock as well???

with vito out of the equation luke whitelock would be the most likely call up for cover on the bench, but i woudlnt mind seeing brad sheilds who has been pretty close to breaking into the All Blacks squad.

we still look good, but not as good as i would like going up against the Boksuckers,,,

my AB forwards would be,,,
1 b franks, 2 d coles, 3 o franks
4 s luatua, 5 b retallick
6 king richie, 8 k read, 7 s cane

16 k mealamu, 17 j moody, 18 c faumuina, 19 j thrush, 20 l whitelock

not as streong as i would like, but should still get the job done this weekend.
FO
ForeverArizonaClub Pro580 posts
08 Sept 2014, 22:08
#20
08 Sept 2014, 22:08#20
 Strange to see Messam injured.I was at one point thinking...."is he a machine?" cause he never got injured right?Bith these players are a real loss but I doubt that the Boks will get the impact they hope it would be.The replacements are as equally good.Unlike SouthAfrica that the replacements are not really up to scratch lol,like Lambie lollolololololo
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