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All the disputed names.....dissected

Started by Mozart10 REPLIES1,763 VIEWS· 17 Sept 2017, 20:20
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
17 Sept 2017, 20:20
#1
17 Sept 2017, 20:20#1
Coetzee.....nice player, lacks gravitas. Bosch....great boot, not even a Super level player. Rhule....elusive but incredibly flimsy. Skosan....quick, but not much else. Senatla...not a great defender, still a star at Sevens and explosive. Nkosi....promising, no record, needs another Super season. Combrink...steady, slow, overrated. Am.....good Super player, possibly test material but no compelling case. Kriel....fast but flimsy, robotic. Stepfontein....ordinary, slow, toothless. Vorster...good instincts, physically average. Rohan...very hard to put away, poor defensively. Allende....hard to put away, poor defender/distributor. Jantjies...unpredictable, erratic boot, poor defender...our only offloading 10. Pollard....mentally strong, still looks short of a run. Cronje...competent, smart...not explosive. Faf....explosive, not smart, not competent Kitshoff....good in the loose, still to scrum as well as the Beast, but test material. Tank du Toit...can't scrum concedes penalties. Dreyer...can't scrum. Wilco ..seems rock solid, needs a chance. Stephanie....active, poor defender, does best in short bursts. Lomp....hype over, an ordinary lock emerges. Mostert....very admirable but looked out of his depth against the ABs. Kleintjie....fabulous in a winning pack, invisible in a pack under pressure. Kolisi...still to impress in a losing cause, not a fetcher. Du Preez...physical, slow, not the man to play offload rugby. Cloete....even smaller than Brussouw, not for tests. Whiteley...clever, inspirational...dangerous near the line . >...........>.......>........>......>..........> I will fill in the names as we go along. But most of these players are flawed, in many cases fatally flawed. The groupie like belief that all we have to do is select Newbie A still prevails after all these years, all the evidence to the contrary. Succesful test players are rare ...very rare. And if you find a player who can best his opponent at test level, cherish him.
BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
18 Sept 2017, 08:20
#2
18 Sept 2017, 08:20#2
A fair comment for the most part. What is your take on Coenie Oosthuizen? He was all hype, then he was moved to the other side of the scrum, got injured, had a period of poor form, but came back very well in 2017. Unfortunately he broke his arm, but he was pretty useful up until that point.  
Some notes;Bosch: Has been a bit disappointing, but I still think there is something there. In time I reckon he'll come good. Still very young.Combrink: Is fast enough, not a blitz winger, but powerful runner and a good finisher.Rohan: Not a perfect center, but the best we have at the moment. Definitely better than anyone in Saturday's 23.Kitshoff: He has been arguably better than Beast, but I must say, Beast has been playing a lot better this year. The two of them are doing things the right way, Beast coming to the end of his career, just as Kitshoff becomes ready to take over. Pollard: 50/50 at this point. In my book he still has a lot to prove.Dreyer: Useless. Needs to go.Hougard (Not on your list): Hopeless. Seriously, I'd rather have any other Super Rugby nine than this kid. 
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Sept 2017, 11:35
#3
18 Sept 2017, 11:35#3
 Half of the above is disinformation - serious pollution warning inecvitable
RO
RooinekCaptain18,117 posts
18 Sept 2017, 11:45
#4
18 Sept 2017, 11:45#4
Another instance of the overrated donkey Eben Etzebeth not even considered as a "disputed" player.

The most hyped up and overrated player of the lot . . . not listed as a "disputed" player or even mentioned on this laughably biased thread.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Sept 2017, 12:11
#5
18 Sept 2017, 12:11#5
The problems are numerous and not only relate to perceived quality of players. Eg why the heck are some players in the squad. Why are skill levels not up  to scratch. Why are so many players overseas. Why so many unions. Why are our best coaches out in the cold. Why is merit not the guiding principle. Why no proper central contracting.  
Strangely Marx has no problem with throwing in at lineouts when playing for the Lions. Any problem with Marx can be fixed. Problems with a Rhule are unlikely to be fixed he is simply too fragile. Dreyer is a small prob who cannot scrum - unlikely to be fixed.Go with the guys who can make it and cull the rest. But we have quotas and a quota coach to deal with. So expect things to splutter along. Its unreasonable to expect anything else unless there are big changes in approach as outlined above.
What is very annoying is all the ludicrous excuses we hear. Young side, learnt from the experience. Positives to take out the game. All these platitudes makes one want to puke and Bok heroes of old turn in their graves. 
MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
18 Sept 2017, 13:57
#6
18 Sept 2017, 13:57#6
Absent his lineout throwing issues, Marx has the potential to be the best hooker on the planet. He made 3 turnovers on Saturday for example. The Boks need alternatives working off front of lineout ball where Etzebeth is money on his ball and more easily reached. I'm guessing this issue gets resolved, but after Saturday it can't be ignored. .. Coenie has been surprisingly solid so far scrumming against France and the Bargies, two traditional scrumming proponents. But I'm not sure they really presented much of a challenge this year. He may have finally found his way, which would give us an Os-like weapon in the loose. But I would have liked to see him against Ayerza, Marler or Vunipola before reaching a conclusion.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Sept 2017, 14:04
#7
18 Sept 2017, 14:04#7
Beeno
Unfortunately there is a lot wrong with Coetzee as coach.   He had the opportunity to coach the Stormers after Rassie left the Stormers and he failed.   The reason for present failure is the same - inadequate midgets in the backline selected on the basis of colour - players like De Jongh, Leyds and  co became constant defensive risks.
If one look at the Springbok backline it is clear that Smith is being hampered by the selections made by Coetzee.  
It is furthermore clear that relationships within the team fell apart after the humiliation on Saturday if a report on their arrival seems to be anything to go by.
I do not blame Etzebeth for the debacle - but it is clear he is not a captain.   He buggered up against Australia and was totally absent as captain on Saturday.
I believe Etzebeth is a top lock - but he needs a player like Du Toit as partner to bring out the best out in him.   Mostert is not physical enough to play on international level as a, lock.  He is much like the lightweight Matfield - who other than in line-outs was worthless in tight 5 play.   
Coetzee should realize that there are problems in the backline and loosies that needs to be fix ed - but I do not think he would fix them.       
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
18 Sept 2017, 14:12
#8
18 Sept 2017, 14:12#8
 Mike, Eben is superb and anybody not agreeing is a rugby mampara - ou rooitwitterbug springs to mind.The guy I feel for is Dr Brendon Venter - imagination his frustration. Frankly joining the coaching staff is a poison chalice under the current circumstances which don't look like changing.
A halfwit has put together this team and should be fired for his efforts.  

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
18 Sept 2017, 15:15
#9
18 Sept 2017, 15:15#9
 I  think both Venter and Smith gets a deficient team and is then expected to dos something with the donkeys - especially in the backline.   I would review that backline and come up with a completely new backline .   The way to go is to draft into the squad players like Janse van Rensburg, Vorster, Combrinck, Boshoff, and Schreuder and put them on the bench next week and if they are up to scratch use them in the starting line-up.
I would only leave two backline players untouched in the long run - Coetzee and Cronje - the rest are just not meeting requirements.   
   
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
20 Sept 2017, 00:55
#10
20 Sept 2017, 00:55#10
 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
20 Sept 2017, 00:55
#11
20 Sept 2017, 00:55#11
 
— END OF THREAD —

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