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All the top 10 Bok performances in the Rugby Championship

Started by Mozart13 REPLIES566 VIEWS· 14 Nov 2018, 06:49
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MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2018, 06:49
#1
14 Nov 2018, 06:49#1
Top 10 In tries...Dyantyi and Mapimpi. In clean breaks....Kolisi In defenders beaten.....Kolisi In lineouts won...Etzebeth, Mostert, Stephanie In metres gained....Kolisi In offloads....Willie, Stephanie, Kolisi Tackles won .....Stephanie, Kolisi, Mostert ..... Pretty stunning. Kolisi was top 10 in 5 out of 7 categories....5 out of 6 really because lineouts are a specialty. And the only Bok who was top 10 in the attacking disciplines of metres gained/clean breaks and defenders beaten. Most of us are pretty convinced Kolisi is a net liability. These numbers invite further thought.
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Nov 2018, 07:42
#2
14 Nov 2018, 07:42#2

Mozart

Some stats are not reflective of the real value of players in games.   Lions won on opposition throw-ins are of greater value and that is not included in your set above.

As to Kolisi - he made line breaks against Argentina and  Australia  (7) and defenders beaten against the same two teams (19) while making no line breaks against NZ and beating only 2 defenders against NZ.   That looks to be good stats against two weakfish teams, 

Those figures do not convince me of anything.   They are based on a few single incidents in games played - his over-all performances were substandard.  

   

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:21
#3
14 Nov 2018, 08:21#3

Kolisi is neither a classic 6 nor 7, he is a hybrid loosie and can be very effective if used in the correct combination with other players. That is what a team sport and especially rugby is all about. The team must be greater than the sum of the individual members...and Rassie seems to be getting things right in the short run.

The average fan wants to place every player in a certain box though but if you approach  the game too scientifically,  you take away the "art", the "passion " and the "soul" and are left poorer for it. We don't want robotic BS, there's no entertainment in that.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:28
#4
14 Nov 2018, 08:28#4
What those stats don't say is how well Kolisi performed his duties as a loose forward. Tackles made, turnovers, effectiveness in driving mauls, effectiveness in ball protection, effectiveness in and around rucks. It is all very well having good stats as a back when you are a forward, but when you are not performing the duties required of your position, you become a liability. I know what I am saying is nothing new, but it does tell the story of why we have a complete lack of balance in our loose trio. Regardless of who is selected, and in what position.   
AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:34
#5
14 Nov 2018, 08:34#5

I say he is a back. That's more of how he is used. Look at that offload to Damian in Pretoria. Or his break against Los Pumas. If I rate him as a forward, it'd be a 2/10. As a back, he would fare better. He has better skills than either Damian or Kriel, a much better defender and has sense for what's around him. He'd be an upgrade. 

PL
PlumCaptain21,007 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:43
#6
14 Nov 2018, 08:43#6

Aug

This is the state of our 12 and 13.

We start wanting to put loosies in their positions. 

Kinda says it all really.

And I agree, give us Kolisi at 12 and Kwagga at 13.



AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:49
#7
14 Nov 2018, 08:49#7

I don't want him at centre, but I dispute that he never was a loose forward to begin with. The stats show, without his backline abilities, he doesn't register as a presence on the field. 

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:53
#8
14 Nov 2018, 08:53#8

Discussing loosies is like a red flag to a bull - it must obviously entail AO's pet hates De Allende and Kriel.   What a farce this AO idiot really is.

BL
bluebokPro3,977 posts
14 Nov 2018, 08:54
#9
14 Nov 2018, 08:54#9
Exactly my point Aug. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
14 Nov 2018, 10:39
#10
14 Nov 2018, 10:39#10

Blue, I agree with what you say about his primary role as an open-side, but the stats show that he wasn't AWOL in every match, as some made out. Not the ideal 6, but I don't see others breaking down the door to the Bok locker room.

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
14 Nov 2018, 11:50
#11
14 Nov 2018, 11:50#11

Kwotalisi is a liability for sure. His meters made looks great, but he had to runs down the wing which ate up about 60 - 70 meters at a time, but failed to get the scoring pass out and butchered at least 2 scoring opportunities against the all blacks. 

His tackle count looks high, but most of them are double tackles, meaning he had other players to help him out. As he is often the 2nd tackler, but always fails to get over the ball.

Gets bumped off way to easy and only perform dominant tackles if he shoots out the line. most of the time he just hangs around off the fr inges and never commit to rucks, which is his job as an open sider. 

MO
MozartCaptain49,914 posts
14 Nov 2018, 15:24
#12
14 Nov 2018, 15:24#12
I tend to agree with most of those views.....but it's an odd one. I don't think any other player in the RC got 5 top10s. Certainly he hasn't been at all prominent in the 2 NH tests. It gives Rassie one hell of a problem. His captain, who is black and statistically the best player in the RC by this measure....should probably be dropped..
KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
14 Nov 2018, 15:35
#13
14 Nov 2018, 15:35#13

Maybe Kwotalise did okay in the first 2 or 3 games where his stats went up but I have been following his movement around the field quite closely since our win against the ABs and it was clear that he only have brief moments in the game. So not sure if his ratio of performance is around 1 in 4, but can you afford to have somebody in you team that only adds any value for 10 minutes and then disappears. 

At best he should be on the bench. We need a genuine ball hawk and can't just rely on Marx. Louw showed his value of what a decent open sider can do and how you can turn a game around by getting a penalty turn over. 

Heinrich Brussouw was another that made sure the boks were on the right side. Just imagine how well our wings would do off poached balls.

AU
AugenöffnerPro6,974 posts
14 Nov 2018, 17:31
#14
14 Nov 2018, 17:31#14

Kolisi was even worse in the first few games! He was almost entirely AWOL. 

— END OF THREAD —

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