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All Time XV (SANZAR)

Started by EricTheRed6 REPLIES681 VIEWS· 15 Dec 2017, 06:52
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ER
EricTheRedRookie46 posts
15 Dec 2017, 06:52
#1
15 Dec 2017, 06:52#1

BEST XV


South Africa


15.Percy Montgomery

14.Stefan Terblanche

13.Marius Joubert

12.Jean De Villiers

11.Bryan Habana

10.Butch James

09.Fourie Du Preez

08.Joe Van Niekerk

07.Schalk Burger

06.Rassie Erasmus

05.Victor Matfield

04.Bakkies Botha

03.Cobus Visagie

02.John Smit

01.Os Du Randt


New Zealand


15.Israel Dagg

14.Jeff Wilson

13.Conrad Smith

12.Frank Bounce

11.Jonah Lomu

10.Dan Carter

09.Justin Marshall

08.Kieran Read

07.Richie McCaw

06.Jerome Kaino

05.Brodie Retallick

04.Colin Meads

03.Olo Brown

02.Saun Fitzpatrick

01.Tony Woodcock


Australia


15.Chris Latham

14.Joe Roff

13.Sterling Mortlock

12.Tim Horan

11.David Campese

10.Mark Ella

09.George Gregan

08.Rocky Elsom

07.George Smith

06.Matt Cockbain

05.John Eales

04.Nathan Sharpe

03.Ben Alexander

02.Phil Kearns

01.James Slipper


WORST XV


South Africa


15.Morne Steyn

14.Odwa Ndungane

13.Robbie Fleck

12.Damian De Allende

11.Swalie Mvovo

10.Brent Russell

09.Cobus Reinach

08.Ryan Kankowski

07.Pedrie Wannenburg

06.Corne Krige

05.Albert Van Den Berg

04.Gerhard Mostert

03.Deon Carstens

02.Lukas Van Biljon

01.Lawrence Sephaka


New Zealand


15.Ben Atiga

14.Scott Hamilton

13.Francis Saili

12.Lee Stensness

11.Caleb Ralph

10.Stephen Donald

09.Brendan Leonard

08.Sione Lauaki

07.Sam Harding

06.Andrew Blowers

05.Isaac Ross

04.Ross Filippo

03.John Schwalger

02.Aled de Malmanche

01.Jamie MacKintosh


Australia


15.Matt Rodgers

14.Rod Davies

13.Morgan Turinui

12.Kurtley Beale

11.Digby Ioane

10.Quade Cooper

09.Will Genia

08.Scott Fava

07.Richard Brown

06.Scott Fardy

05.Kane Douglas

04.All Kanaar

03.Guy Shepherdso n

02.Adam Freier

01.Matt Dunning


That's my be and worst, what's yours? Rules of worst: No quality players ruined by injuries, only the plain bad ones. 

CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
15 Dec 2017, 08:45
#2
15 Dec 2017, 08:45#2

Intresting

its a very subjective topic.

A few things i'd like to point discuss:


1. Pedrie - He wasn't great, but we've had much worse. he had terrible hands, but he could tackle like a machine.

2. Krige - Come on, he was a decent player. Also as solid as a rock. Tackled like a terrier. He just had the curse of playing with some woeful teammates and a shocking coach.

3. Marius Joubert over Jaque Fourie? NEVER!!

4. Picking 3 of the best loosies for SA is very hard. How does one leave the great Andre Venter out?

5. Jerome Kaino in an all time best XV? Come on!

6. Will Genia doesnt deserve to be on that team sheet. He's got the Aussies some vital wins.

7. I dont like Cooper, but he also hasnt been the worst!

8. Stephen Donald - From zero to world cup hero, then on to the worst AB team sheet of all time. Thats quite a ride!

KI
kingcornPro3,695 posts
15 Dec 2017, 09:40
#3
15 Dec 2017, 09:40#3

I have to agree, Jacque Fourie and Jean de Villiers made formidable combination. The were both really big and fast with fantastic defensive skills

I don't think Butch James should be on that list. He only played well once Eddie Joined the team but was really dirty player. 

For me it would have to be Henry Honiball (Lem, AKA the blade) His kicking at post wasn't that great but boy could he tackle and wasn't afraid of taking it up. Besides, having Percy in the team would make up for that

I think that JP Pietersen and Bryan Habanna are my wings. In their prime they were unstoppable. 

JP for me complimented Du Preez box kicks

I would drop John Smit, he wasn't the best hooker around and choose Bismark over him any day with Rassie captaining the team. 

But Andre Venter should be in the team. He was an incredible athlete


ER
EricTheRedRookie46 posts
15 Dec 2017, 12:35
#4
15 Dec 2017, 12:35#4

Yep its pretty subjective. Here's my thinking behind that:

Joubert is a more finesse player than Fourie and a bit faster. You never really see Fourie passing. I like Fourie but I like a little more of a playmaker like O'Driscoll and Smith at 13, especially if you have a direct bruiser at 12. Jean and Fourie is a little too much like for like for me. I thought about Frans because he is a bitter better skilled than Jean but Jean has been around and served South Africa a pretty long time and I haven't seen too much of Frans in a good while. But I suppose any match would work really well. Just preference.

I stand by that Krige selection. Was a poor leader and very dirty. I still remember that "We'll kill you in Perth" nonsense that had me cringing so bad. I'm pretty sure his last test was against New Zealand in the World Cup and it was bad bad baaaad. Was hopeless. He was the poster boy for that coach's violent Bok era which lost the team a lot of respect in the rugby world and made refs clamp down even harder on them.

Maybe I'm harsh on Pedrie but I didn't see much good in the tests I saw. 

Butch was a real good 10. The worst Bok performance I ever saw was Dunedin in 2001. The entire team played like a tier 3 team apart from Butch. Shame about injuries but he was a complete package really. Great boot, great hands and a very tough defender. Occasional swinging arm but mostly okay. Many many more dirty players by a long way. Of all the Bok 10s I have seen he is the most complete. I'd actually rate him higher than Naas. I got to see Naas and do remember him playing for South Africa and he has turned a lot into a mythical figure. Stransky was another great Bok 10 who I think was pretty underrated. He was a great runnernand passer too but also a smart player. 

JP Pietersen was/is great under the high ball but was unsuccessful dealing with New Zealand almost through all his career. Great defender and brave. But a bit slow. There were actually a few wings that caught my eye so it was hard to settle on a wing duo, Habana was easy though. I liked what I saw from Terblanche.

Honiball was brave and tough but a really blunt object. In the 99 World Cup he didn't provide that all round quality to spark the team and was handily outshone by Larkham. Butch was a better rounded player and probably even stronger! When Butch played and Jean or Frans were outside him teams were very cautious to attack the inside channels. Can't think of any other Bok combo there that affected game planning like that.

Loose forwards are really hard to choose. I had about 14 players that I liked but this was what In preferred. You guys make loose forwards like we make centres. 

Smit didn't have any real weaknesses in his game. If Bismarck was a more accurate in what he did I'd maybenhabe started him. He'd be on my bemch . pretty overwhelming coming off the bench. Smit was a consistent and long time servant of South Africa and deserves the edge like Jean at 12.

The Wallabies have so many overrated players. Genia, Cooper, Beale and so many others only played well against sloppy teams and when Peters Boks went south after 2009 the had the most success against those Boks. The rest of their performances were pathetic. Cooper had one okay test against NewmZealand in 2011 and was eaten alive thereafter. Genia and Cooper complimented each others incompetence. 

Kaino is world class, end of! Again it was hard call but preference. His ability can't be doubted.

ER
EricTheRedRookie46 posts
15 Dec 2017, 12:36
#5
15 Dec 2017, 12:36#5


CH
ChippoPro3,372 posts
15 Dec 2017, 12:41
#6
15 Dec 2017, 12:41#6

Gotta also say that Matt Rogers was a class player. I always feared the Aussies when he played. And Digby? Though short lived, he was pretty decent too Not the best, but certainly not the worst!


What gives with Quade and Genia?

ER
EricTheRedRookie46 posts
15 Dec 2017, 17:57
#7
15 Dec 2017, 17:57#7

Matty was a talented league player one of the many failed Aussie experimental converts. I lost count of how many kicks he failed to find touch with. One game  put several restarts in a row out of rouch . just not skilled enough for the more multi dimensional union game and went back to league frustrayed. Diggers was a guy that could run fast in a straight line. A track runner who was useful if there was nobody in front of him. For me he was a very un-Australian wing, like McCabe was an un-Australian centre (nearly made my list). Genia and Cooper could be lethal against a passive defence that allowed them to pick their points of attack on their own terms but were useless against an assertive defence that didn't give them time or space. You guys have lots of players like that even the past season against France etc, very passive defensive teams. Very average players can look very good at times and bad players can look adequate. Then a real test comes and bam!! Back to reality and 9 tries conceded to New Zealand in another blowout

The only time Genia and Cooper ever confused a good defence was by confusing themselves and each other. Aussies have lots of these guys that superficially look tecnicaply good but can't put together into anything useful. 

— END OF THREAD —

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