Another Jantjies data point...

.......a match winner I say! This was exactly what happened against the Canes in Ellis Park....take away the space and it all goes pear shaped. He created the Canes first try....could have prevented the second with faster reactions.....missed kicks....turned over balls.

And here's the thing....he had no clue what to do. So this pattern will continue when his team dominates he will look good and the mob will applaud. But come a competitive game which has to be won....and the demons will emerge. Welcome to your future.

 Jantjies needs a mental skills coach. He has all the physical skills but still fragile mentally. Look what mental skills coaches have done for the ABs. Barrett is a prime example, when that guy makes a mistake he strikes back immediately with a great play, that's confidence.
In terms of physical skills, Jantjies should know how to kick in the wind, keeping it low as Barrett did.
Also, Barrett took the pass from TJ from further back to give him more time, Jantjies took a much flatter pass & didn't adjust. Maybe he was instructed to do so but he could have done with some more time by taking the pass from a deeper position.

The rush defence blew the Lons off the park. Given they lost to the Hurricanes under similar circumstances this year already, they had no plan to deal with it.
 Standing deeper would certainly have been a shot, and chipping over the top is often the way to deal with a rush defence.

 Absolutely....they had to chip that defence. Instead Jantjies launched a series of aimless kicks up the middle. It was exactly the Ellis Park game .....the White style  rush defence dominated the offloading attack.

 Playing outside Jantjies could be a nightmare when he chooses to pop out the lil wobbly ball & there's this monster loosie in your peripheries . Poor game although he thoroughly deserved last week's man o' match award.

 Jantjies was under far more pressure than he's use to, the Crusaders and the Highlanders line speed wasn't even close to the Hurricanes. 
Janjies didn't adapt and they didn't change tactics instead they played the same game they played the previous two weeks. Even going as far as the exact same moves! The Hurricanes read their plays like a book, the Lions should have mixed it up with some new moves. 

 He had a shocker!!!
The pressure was too much for him and he panicked. 
He was in sixes and sevens ... clueless ... terrified and is by no means a test flyhalf.
This is exactly what I feared would happen.
You could see Barrett was accustomed to the elements. He was calm and played brilliantly. 

On a positive note ... Jantjies had some brilliant matches during the season and he contributed a great deal to our first final in many decades ... so hats off to him ... and thanks very much for a fine season.
Such a pity he hasn't managed to get his nerves under control.
Still wish we'd offer Pat Lambie the Sun and the Moon and the Universe to come play for us. He's wasted at the toothless Sharks.
 
   

 You guys are all wrong about Jantjies. Dave should be around to explain how Jantjies was actually brilliant and that it was the rest of the team who made him look k@k. 

I think you guys are right and wrong. Here's why. Was bored last night and watched he first Lions/Canes game again. Just to see if I was mad or biased about the off-side rush defense of the canes. Just skimming through the game I found...wait for it, 14 occasions where the canes were blatantly off-side. There were some instances where there was not a single player outside of the ruck actually on side. There where also other instances where retreating players specifically stood in the way of Faf and forced him to pass to longer flatter passes since he couldn't get the ball to Jantjies. I counted 4 other these. Honestly I don't care what the kiwi's here think of that. I specifically watched this last night to understand my own levels of bias and honestly I was surprised to see how the Canes were actually a lot more cynical in their play that I had first thought. I'm going to download yesterday's game. I do have some great editing software and I'll try to, just for the hell of it to see if the same occured yesterday. Would be nice to put some evidence behind an opinion for once. One thing that was glaringly obvious yesterday was how every time the Lions got momentum the Canes would stem it with a penalty. I counted about 6 occasions where this occured. Of course I am a Lions fan so I am probably being biased. That's why I'd like to do this little project of mine. Ultimately though, when a team is being illegal rushed, how much is there to glean from it? The reason legal rush defenses don't always work is that as a defender, u less you can be right on top of your man when he gets the ball, you can put yourself in hot water. If you are say 1,5m from him and moving at pace you are much easier to sidestep. You are also much more susceptible to grabbers etc becauese you are in no man's land. If however, you steal that extra 1 or 2 meters by being off-side, you can be right in top of your man when he gets the ball. And here is what I think happened to the Lions a bit. There is nothing a an attacking team can do about it. Doesn't it strike anyone else here as strange that the Lions only struggled with the Canes this season? The canes don't have faster backs than anyone else. There are other rush defenses in the S18 too and i doubt there is a dingle team that the Lions played against who didn't want to pressure Jantjies and Faf. Why were the Canes so very much more succesful than anyone else at this. I mean, we are talking tens of times of more succesful. Yeah Wardad, Hawka and Co, I really don't give a rats tiny little ar5e what you think.

 Plum, the first reaction of some so called supporters here is to crucify our players and in this case Jantjes. I am surprised  you counted only 14 occassion but that's enough to unsettle a side as any sane person would know. The Lions were disrupted by offside play and no other argument holds waterPlum I warned about how the blowhards had been consistently off side against the wee chiEfies. I also warned that the Lions would be made the target of this illegal play. Was I right or what!!!
Using these illegal tactics no side has scored a try against the blowhards for some time!!!!
Be assured though whereas our jelly kneed, weak minded "supporters" will blame Jantjes, the other nz franchises will not tolerate all this and next season mysteriously blowhard "line speed" will amazingly just disappear and tries will once again be scored against the hapless blowhards.
In conclusion Plum I must commend you on your careful research which fully supported my contention. It's a pity we have so few independently minded folk here who can think and can see what is actually so obvious for all the reason you mention.ANOTHER BURGLED TROPHY!Been correct yet again AND NO DUPE OF FOUL NZ TACTICS

Janjtjies should not be written off, he couldn't deal with the rush defence & has to learn from this. His coaches should help. 
As I said on another thread he needs a mental skills coach. This has worked for NZ teams & you can see the result in players like Barrett. When Barrett makes a mistake he immediately strikes back with a good play. This is the temperament Jantjies needs.
Plum, I watched the game twice & I don't see where the Canes were off-side as much as you say. I saw that our mate Glen blew his whistle for offsides very early in the game & a few times later in the game. He did this against the Lions also. Even if what you say is true Jantjies needs to be able to adapt. He has the skills to deal with this, i.e. his kicking. Unfortunately he only did this well for patches in the game.

Reading some of the criticism of Elton Jantjies makes me wonder how many of these dullard's actually watched the match. 
Faf de Klerk had his worst game of the season by some distance and his service was very poor, not just by his very high standards but by schoolboy rugby standards.
Faf's passes were all either behind Jantjies or else over his head. Never mind Jantjies, the likes of Hugo Porta, Dan Carter and Jonny Wilkinson would have struggled to look good with that quality of service.
Not saying Elton had a great game but be fair and apportion the blame where it's due.

 Quade Cooper on whom Jantjies modeled himself could never master aggressive defence. It's a high risk proposition the Jantjies game.....all those last second flips. You need space. Space was not available yesterday.

I'm reminded of Tiger Woods' last few successful years where his driving was shot, but he lived on his chipping and putting. Nervy stuff.....too nervy for test match rugby. Yes it will work if the defence hangs back. Not if they fill the channels.

And Plum if you are right Whiteley lost the plot. I never saw any argument from the Lions that the Canes were systematically offside. And it's not that Jackson wasn't looking for it...he did penalize the canes for offside.

 IMO Whiteley was feeling the effects of his injury as was Dane Coles. The stats show Whiteley did ok but they wouldn't show if he was giving protection to De Klerk so maybe there was a problem there. I didn't see where de Klerk was giving poor ball to Jantjies but others may have. IMO the Lions were rushed & their timing was off because they did not have the space they were used to. The inside backs were affected by this so all the passes & planned plays didn't come off as planned.

The game I was talking about was the first Lions Canes game at Ellis Park. The youtube of the full match is up, though not amazing quality. Seriously, go through it if you're bored. From this game I got a similar impression of the offside business. Some occasions I directly remember but I'd like to have a closer look and see if I am really as biased as I sound. I'll download the game and see what I can come up with. Might be a nice hobby in future actually and I might take some requests :) Of course. I could be wrong and the Canes might just have the best defense in the history of rugby. If that is the case then good job Canes.

 Plum, both Canes v Lions games are history now mate. 
The first game was in round 10 at the Lions' home ground. The Canes were rampant on attack as you may recall. Here's a link to a commentary and the stats on the game.
Link to SANZAR site for Lions v Canes game

There were a lot of points scored in that game but the Canes attempted 134 tackles to Lions 67 so defence was a factor. Canes won the turnover battle.
Justin Marshall (who delights in taking the oppositions point of view) says the weather conditions in Wellington & the travel meant a Canes win was almost a forgone conclusion.
But IMO the scoreline in the final could have been worse for the Lions if they played in good weather, that was the case in the first game.

JW. Yes, once something has happened it is history :) I'm just a bit interested in understanding two things. A) if I am as biased as what I think I am and B) Why the Canes defense is as good as it is. But yeah, I'll do my little experiment and let you know the results. For me, I'm very glad the Lions made it to the final. They've already done more than prove their point.

 Blah blah blah fooking ungracious sook ,so according to your spliff addled brain the ref missed 14 offside plays !Your a sad arsed gitboy you are .Try some kat next time it might elevate your mood .

According to the AAS all Faf's  passes were behind Jantjies or over his head....I just checked one pass, the one he made before the Canes first try. It was a perfect pass right into Jantjies' bread basket. the problem was Jantjies was looking to run the ball and was too flat....when he saw Shields coming up on him he panicked and shoveled a pass over Mostert and behind Mapoe. The bad pass came from Jantjies and the positioning error came from Jantjies.

 The Naas view:

“And I think in conditions like this, this is where the flyhalf says ‘bring the ball to me. Let me control it’... and I thought at one stage he didn’t really do that and that put everybody else under pressure.”

According to Botha, Jantjies used the wrong tactics in wet conditions, where it’s not always wise to try and play a running game.

“The problem today was, Elton never made up his mind about which game he was going to play. That’s where he really fell short. He should’ve decided... in conditions like this, you don’t play like that.

“We would like to see a game like that, but today you don’t play like that. Go back three or four times... inside their 22 where he should have taken control, they tried to pass the ball behind and the one try came because of a bad pass.

“Sometimes the ball just doesn’t go further than the flyhalf in conditions like this."

Botha felt Jantjies also didn't make use of playing with the wind in the second half.

“And when you’ve got the wind behind you, 99% of the time the problem is that people think the wind will win you the game. But you’ve got to go and make the right decision and play the right game.”

 Surely Jantjies was getting instructions from the coaches? I can't believe the overall tactics were left to him. Sure individual errors are mainly on his shoulders, some would also be on the shoulders of those around him.
On the point about his taking advantage of the wind & conditions, if the coaches saw that he was not doing what made sense they must have sent word down to him to adjust. If they did send word & he still screwed up then he is at fault. I also believe he needs a mental skills coach. He has talent that must be developed but his mental skills seem lacking, he does look overwhelmed sometimes.

 Fair point JW....still there is execution and the player's input on when to try  Plan B. And when things went well against  the Landers Jantjies got all the credit....he has to get at least some of the blame if the reverse is true.

 Apart from the drop in his standard of play due to various factors, he looked strained ... fearful ... confused ... unsure of how to go about it.
It was all his mindset on the day.  
I never saw any guidance coming from the captain. He was left to continue as he thought best. I thought that was rather poor from Whiteley. I expected a bit more from our leader.  
The brilliant Jantjies of the week before was nowhere to be seen. The belief he had against the Highlander was somehow missing.  
We all hoped he'd wake up feeling good about himself and the day. 
He's not solely to blame for our loss. We had no clue how to deal with the conditions. 
Our heart was up for it but the day belonged to those more adapt to playing in that kind of conditions.
It's a pity ... a bit of a spoiler after such a long season.
I hope we took something away with us. Something we can call upon next season.
I have not written Jantjies off. I am glad he's a part of the Lions mix. Never thought I'd say that but it's true. He's a quality player and we need him. 

 No flyhalf can play well when denied space via offside play. Bar  rat would have been completely rattled if subjected to this. 
Time oaks to get to the root of the problem. Mark my words the blowhards have been found out and will not be able to get away with it again next season. Some other cheat will have to be found.
Few would doubt that had the final been at Ellis Park with a proper ref the Lions would have had a very comfortable win.

 What I wonder about was the data used to prove it was wise not to send A team players to Arge ntine?

 HasBeen don't be a dunce....it was an exercise in probabilities. As for no space, that's the whole point. When the opposing team is coming up flat out, you don't stand flat 15 metres from your own goal line. If you have any sense you drop back so you can make a secure clearing kick.....live by the sword, die by the sword.

 Sound advice from your good friend Dr Moz Beeno, you need to reduce your dunce-like behavior if at all possible. You have my full support in your efforts

 The reff applied the off side line consistently. The Canes were very flat on that line. The Lions should have adapted to the interpretation and tried a few things. A bit of variation and a few clever chip kicks and grubbers could have forced the rush defence to adapt a bit. Jantjies cojld have stood a bit deeper.  They've played them before and should have had a better plan and a few other options. If you run everything with the odd u/u or box kick, it's easy to defend.

 Thing is ... the Canes came at us as expected. 
They didn't come with a new approach. Same rush defence ... same line speed ... same flat approach ... same pressure ... yet for some reason we played the match as though we expected none of it.  
We looked totally unprepared for their strategy.
What I found puzzling is that we kept the same approach in the second half. 
Yes I know that they scored two tries on our mistakes and that the match should have been a little closer on the scoreboard than it was ... but still ... we never gave ourselves a chance by being so passive. 
We were tactically stupid ...  

Klop & Jantjies should've lowered his trajectory when place kicking . The wind at Wellington Stadium swirls around ( apparently enhanced due to louvres in the roof area) . Barrett lowered his sights ...... Jantjies nah .

 RE: Another Jantjies data point...
August 07, 2016, 11:48:02

 You guys are all wrong about Jantjies. Dave should be around to explain how Jantjies was actually brilliant and that it was the rest of the team who made him look k@k. 

That top part is a quote - this rubbish software ....

Jantjies is the SA version of Quade Cooper just with less talent - he's an ass.

 Mac, RooiAAS slimed on here and tried to make that argument...but not with any conviction. It was obvious even to Mallett than Jantjies was very poor. Dave has taken the deep dive.

This is the closest thing I could find to any criticism of the Lions players after last year's final.....and pretty much everybody agreed. ... Case closed....Tokkie you should abjectly apologize.