Are Saffer refs out to get the All Blacks?

Mr Joubert & co, I know you follow this site. Gentlemen, let me say, in the world of rugby referees, there is you, then there is daylight and then there is the rest of the pack.

So don't lower your standards by stooping to Beeno's level and penalising the ABs for everything under the sun. Sure, penalise us when we deserve it, but don't be so fixated with catching McCaw supposedly cheating and missing EVERY opposition cheating. 

I know you review all your performances and I know you already agree with me.

hakwa

 What are you talking about?   Joubert penalized the AB's 11 times and the English 8 times for offenses and there were no penalties awarded against McCaw.   Read was penalized once - and carded because of a previous warning given as a result of repeated offences by other AB's - in particular Sam Whitelock.   Five of the 11 penalties were against AB props - but that is fairly natural given their limited abilities as props and the tendencies to overcome their limitations through cheating.     

It was indeed surprising that McCaw was not penalized at all - because in recent matches - he was penalized repeatedly, for instance in the opening RC match against Australia he was penalized 3 times.   As far as I can recollect he was penalized twice in the French game - but that is not really surprising since his average penalty count per match since his sabbatical is about 2. 

Don't blame the SA refs - they normally apply the law - even though I have reservations with regard to Peyper - who to my mind is on par with the NZ refs and therefore below the normal standards of SA refs.        

hakwa

In maul situations it is not always clear to the public who in fact was penalized and in the case of the penalties I normally used the ESPM stats to see who has been penalized.   That is what I did in the above case.   Although not full proof - it normally indicates who the real culprits are.

Another problem is that the refs look in the first instance who made the tackle and whether the tackler allows the tackled player to place the ball - or do not show daylight and then try and make a turnover.  That is also not always clear, especially when there are two tacklers involved.   One may not roll away or obstruct the placing of the ball - whilst the other attempts the turnover.   That is why it is so difficult for members of the public to understand why penalties are awarded to opposite sides to whom we believe it should go.  

Be it as it may - I normally do not criticize refs - only express reservations if they are in effect showing gross incompetence - and of those there were only really 2 since 2011 - Bryce Lawrence and Poite.   Did my eyes deceive me or was the  latter a line judge in one of the games yesterday?   

The_Truth

I do not  entirely blame  the players for the illegal tactics used.   They are coached to play that way -  to use illegal tackles and all other chances to get an advantage for the team.   If the ref allows them to get away with it, it is a bonus for them.   When Joubert gave penalties against them.  McCaw now says he cannot understand why - because like many referees previously - he in the past allowed them to do what they really want to do on the field of play, so now they are surprised at the change.

I think the referees are nowadays more carefully studied than they were in the past and they do not like to get adverse reports on performances - since they can put their job in jeopardy.        

 Joubert generally had a good game as per normal. However there were 2 bad incidents that spring to mind.

Read's yellow card was crap. Messam was over the ball on his feet and clearly the ABs should have received a penalty prior to the Read infringement which resulted in 3 points to the Poms.

Also the Pommie try should never have been allowed. Pom No 7 Robshaw clearly touched the ball from an off side position as the try scorer picked it up and dived over.

Should have been a penalty to the ABs. Can't really blame Joubert for that one but the gutless TMO had full view of it on the replay and chose to ignore the obvious.

But then again, a champion team can overcome adversity!!

 If a ref blew strictly according to the rules there would be a penalty at virtually every contested breakdown. That's the difference between a great referee and a knee-jerk one. The good ones count to 2 before blasting the whistle. Yes, the tackler didn't roll the split second the tackle was made, yes, the tackler held on to the ball for a fraction before the defenders got cleaned out. There is a degree of reasonableness which referees need to apply, but you won't find that rule in any law book. And the there are refs who are the other end of the scale and let things go too far.

It's an unenviable job I reckon. Hats off to those that do it.

 All this talk kiwi's but did you win?? Yes or no?? Did you win??

Now ask us the same question about Paul Honiss in the Boks vs Ireland and Bryce Lawrence in 2011 WC quarter final. Ask us the same question...

So dont talk shit about refs. If Joubert wanted you to lose, you would have lost. England had momentum for the most part in that game and Craig could have subtly ensured it stayed that way whilst Farrell and his on song boot on the night kicked you out of it. Afterall, the breakdowns are left up to the interpretation of the ref and although it must have been frustrating for the Kiwi's and their supporters, you have to admit, England got stuck in to your pack and were winning the breakdown contest.

Testament to the class of the AB's though, they managed to turn it around and do enough to get the result. Dont ping the ref on this occasion because he penalized the AB's more than you guys would like or are used to when playing in NZL. Absolutely nothing to scrutinize in Joubert's performance there. The AB's met a good fired up and spirited English team and they got the win in the end. Fair play to both teams!

 For once you're right Hasbeeno.....You couldn't put it better and never had the ability to do so!

Mr Truth, you sound like a typical disgruntled Saffa fan who can't hack the ABs continual dominance of your own team and all others. Never mind mate, have a lie down and dream of Bok supremacy.....after all, that's all it will ever be after 21 years of trying!!