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FORUM / RUGBY /  Are we in for a few disappointments re Bok selections?

Are we in for a few disappointments re Bok selections?

Started by Beeno117 REPLIES331 VIEWS· 27 Oct 2013, 16:11
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BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2013, 16:11
#1
27 Oct 2013, 16:11#1

Quotas look set to rear their ugly head and the merit principle might be over ruled to accomodate the desire to reduce the number of overseas players - a double whammy -and we might also have a few blunders to add in as well. So dont get your hopes up too high as merit it seems will not be the guiding principle. Poor Meyer having to deal with all this rubbish

Hopefully rapport has got some of these selections wrong!!

Rory Kockott will be overlooked for the Springboks tour, despite being the French Top 14 player of the year. The talk is Louis Schreuder will be included. (Absolute madness if that happens. Schreuder is really nothing to shout about. Reinach, Mac, Jano, Kockott and even Sarel before him!!!)

Fourie du Preez is unavailable and Ulster-based Ruan Pienaar will start at scrumhalf. (Is he bettter in NH conditions?) Kockott, the star at Castres and Toulouse-based Jano Vermaark, are deemed inferior to the qualities of Schreuder and Cheetahs Piet van Zyl.(Rubbish)

Every coach is single minded about certain positions and in this case it appears the single mindedness is that Kockott simply is not good enough. I can’t agree on that as I thought Schreuder was awful in the Currie Cup final and Van Zyl is not a Test player.(Van Zyl may get there but not for now)

Veterans Bakkies Botha, Jaque Fourie and JP Pietersen, all based overseas, will be included in the squad of 32 (Okay by me) but prior to Saturday’s final Frans Steyn and Schalk Burger were not on Meyer’s radar. I’d pick them both because of their class, but on performance room simply has to be found for Steyn, especially as he can cover fullback.(I would not pick either as neither look ready yet)

Meyer is under pressure to select more black players and more locally based players, which means his final touring squad may not be a representation of who he believes to be the best 32 South African players.

Rapport Newspaper’s Louis de Villiers speculated that Gio Aplon, Schreuder and Scarra Ntubeni would be the surprise inclusions. Aplon deserves selection, but not so the other two.

Schalk Brits and Chilliboy Ralepelli should be ahead of Ntubeni in any pecking order.

I can guarantee you that if Ntubeni tours and there is a double injury to Bismarck du Plessis and Adriaan Strauss one of Ralepelli or Brits would be drafted in to start ahead of Ntubeni.

Botha and Fourie last played for the Springboks in the 2011 World Cup.

Bok team (as speculated in Rapport Newspaper)
Backs
Zane Kirchner, Gio Aplon, JP Pietersen, Willie Roux, Bryan Habana, JJ Engelbrecht, Jan Serfontein, Jaque Fourie, Jean de Villiers (capt), Morne Steyn, Pat Lambie, Johan Goosen, Ruan Pienaar, Jano Vermaak, Louis Schreuder.

Forwards
Duane Vermeulen, Siya Kolisi, Marcel Coetzee, Francois Louw, Willem Alberts, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Bakkies Botha, Eben Etzebeth, Flip van der Merwe, Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Scarra Ntubeni, Frans Malherbe, Coenie Oosthuizen, Curthro Steenkamp, Jannie du Plessis, Beast Mtawarira.

Lets not go ballistic just yet !!

SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2013, 16:20
#2
27 Oct 2013, 16:20#2
 That squad is taking Bok rugby backwards
CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2013, 16:30
#3
27 Oct 2013, 16:30#3

Bakkies Botha - who does not make the starting line up at Toulon anymore - the writer  must be nuts.   

 

Does 10 foreign based players mean Meyer is under pressure to reduce foreign based players - ha bloody ha - it is in that respect even worse than his present squad.

 

No other comment at present.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Oct 2013, 21:05
#4
27 Oct 2013, 21:05#4
 Clever Trevor talking kak as usual. Bakkies is the sixth highest paid player in the French Top 14 league. He and Ali Williams have been rested for the first time this season for the game against Toulon yesterday. A number of key players were either rested or on  the bench. Delon Armatage, Johnny Wilkinson, etc started on the bench. Both Bakkies and  Ali Williams started in the Heineken Cup game against Cardiff last week.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2013, 22:06
#5
27 Oct 2013, 22:06#5
Bakkies would be a great mentor for Eben and Steph. I am sure he can still offer a 60 good minutes. Bakkies, Eben, Du Toit and Flip would make a powerful lock group.Lets hope Meyer gets it as right as possible

CL
clevermikeCoach57,555 posts
27 Oct 2013, 22:07
#6
27 Oct 2013, 22:07#6

Ceradyne

 

Bakkies have been in France for two years and he must have contracted for the highest amount in pay possible - but he is playing on club level - in some cases more or less CC level and he is 34 years of age - what the hell is it worth to go and select him as he is not really needed - there are enough younger players with more than adequate talent available playing in SA.

 

A useless selection if ever there was one.  The fact is that SARU wants to clamp down on selection of foreign-based players - they said so themselves.   The list given above contained the names of 10 foreign-based players - with a maximum of 4 really of test quality anymore.

 

It is only ridiculously stupid people that thinks that advancing age does not affect top sports performances.   

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Oct 2013, 22:50
#7
27 Oct 2013, 22:50#7
 And then the fool comes with his stupid argument about the level of  the CC compared to the Top14 and the Heineken Cup again. That is beside the point. Stick to your bullshit statement about Bakkies at Toulon. This is the only one that I have addressed and it is the one that you have been caught out on:

"Bakkies Botha - who does not make the starting line up at Toulon anymore....."

Do not try and bullshit your way out of this one again. I have listed the games that Toulon has played this season, including the starting lock  pairing for  each game. I have taken it straight form the Toulon website. Let's see how you try and wriggle yourself  out of this one, bullshitter:

26/7 v Bordeaux:


9/8 v Gloucester:


2/8 v Racing Metro:


16/8 v Montpellier:


23/8 v Racing Metro:


31/8 v Grenoble


4/9 v Brive:


8/9 v Biarritz


14/9 v Castres:


21/9 v Bayonne:


28/9 v Oyonnax


5/10 v Clermont


13/10 v Glasgow


19/10 v Cardiff


26/10 v Toulouse


By my calculations Bakkies has started 12 out of the 15 games for Toulon from the start  of the season.




BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2013, 22:57
#8
27 Oct 2013, 22:57#8
 Mike we are buying a little bit of time while Willemse and Loodt grow up.
However is its not certain Bakkies will get picked. Bakkies is also well up on fren ch rugby and will have valuable insights to share.
Windpomp no need to get all nasty here please there is somewhere better to do it as you well know.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2013, 23:24
#9
27 Oct 2013, 23:24#9
Beenkop dont get ahead of yourself.............I have been anti Steenkamp and Cilliers from day one, both are bog ordinary. Scara is a great player but not physical enough to start, but then WP do not have an alternative unless you want another bog ordinary hooker like Liebenberg.

Never a good idea to start Kolisi and Fourie as loosies, the Bok Kolisi should have been at 6
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2013, 23:34
#10
27 Oct 2013, 23:34#10
 Go sit in the corner and where the D hat re you comment about Kolisi. Its a disgrace he ever wore the Bok jersey. He is nowhere near ready.Liebenberg if fit would have been the third hooker for the Boks. Miles nbetterthan wee chilli boy.Scurra could be an impact player off the ebnch but cant see him shaping against top Super 15 sides. No doubt we sahll see how he goes next year.But we could at least have started with Malherbe and Rhodes yesterday. 
I see another thread by JW re how the Currie Cup may influence Bok selections - has an article saying Deon is screaming for selection. Wise up snapster supporting Kolisi is costing you vital cred!
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
27 Oct 2013, 23:41
#11
27 Oct 2013, 23:41#11
Liebenberg is bog ordinary......Chiliboy is twice the player. Both Cooper and Callie Visagie are far better than Liebenberg. Scara is better than Liebenberg as well as is Burden and Maku.

Kolisi is pure class and will be a Bok for the next 10 years. He should be starting ahead of the average Louw.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
27 Oct 2013, 23:55
#12
27 Oct 2013, 23:55#12
 Snapster are you stoned?   
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
27 Oct 2013, 23:56
#13
27 Oct 2013, 23:56#13
 Did you watch the Toulouse-Toulon game yesterday, Saff? Both Chilli and Vermaak were very good. Vermaak was a real thorn in the Toulon flesh.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2013, 00:00
#14
28 Oct 2013, 00:00#14
No did not watch that one......Chiliboy has been good for some time now......but sits third behind the two best hookers in the game. I feel for Chiliboy. Did Chiliboy start as Toulouse have that massive 120kg kid playing 2
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2013, 00:05
#15
28 Oct 2013, 00:05#15
 Nope. He was on the bench but made a big difference when he came on. Vermaak  started. You should have a look. It was on BT Sports IIRC, and they have regular re-runs of all the games. Was a crunch game with only one point in it in the end.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2013, 00:14
#16
28 Oct 2013, 00:14#16
Will give it a watch, Vermaak is a good player........did they give that 19 year old centre some game time, he is meant to be the next big thing in French rugby.......tall lad.
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Oct 2013, 00:35
#17
28 Oct 2013, 00:35#17
 Gael Fickou for Toulouse? He did play but it was a very tight game with Vermaak scoring the only try of the game. So Fickou did not get a lot of  chances but he was great when he came on off the bench against Saracens last week in the Heineken Cup at Wembley.
SA
Saffolk Captain30,741 posts
28 Oct 2013, 00:45
#18
28 Oct 2013, 00:45#18
Yeah I was at that game, Fickou did not get much game time........I could not believe Saracens did not bring Bosch on at all in that game. He got half a game against Saints yesterday and made a big difference.

No doubt Venter will be back to steady the Sarries ship. How on earth Matt Stevens retains his starting spot is beyond me. Did you see the size of the young Sarries prop that came on.......he looked like a bodybuilder, man he was stacked.......comes from Jersey apparently
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