Are we really in a scrum crisis?

I think everyones going a little over the top. the fact is we faced the traditional msters of the scrum on their turf against the most feared if all scrumming styles. are we really surprised that we had problems? we havent really had anything like this trouble against anyone else so i think we just have to lift our hats off to the argies and watch what they do to the others.

 we had NO problems when Beast, Strauss and Malheber came on as far as I could see.
we also had the argies scrumming in. You go and watch the scrums again.
We are a bit thin on the tighthead side. Beast, Bissie and Jannie have been played year after year. No real depth has been built at international level. We do not scrum our weight and havent for years. Some argue our tecnique is outdated. I would have thought Pieter De Vuilliers would know what he is doing? 
Not a crisis but not as heal thy as one would like.

We have a bunch of guys here who claim to be experts on judging players. Problem is that they are very selective when applying criteria. In the one game we get drilled and then the culprits are the locks. Then we get drilled again, fielding "their" set of locks and the culprits becomes the front rowers, and so it carries on.

We have now had a number of sources explaining away the reason behind the power of the Argentinian scrum and guess what? The secret is not their locks and it is not their front rowers................. or the type of shorts they were or the colour of their boot laces or way they wear their socks or what ever other criteria you would like to add. It is a simple, but well-drilled and well executed, technique requiring the entire pack to act as a single entity and not a bunch of individuals.

 Cerudnce windpomp chimes in with more confusion.

 Lets be objective on the issue of scrumming and start with the props.    We have had the following props in June and int eh CR thus far:-
Jannie du Plessis, Tendai Mtawarire,  Gurthro Steenkamp,  Coeni oosthuizen and Frans Malherbe,
Now lets look at the scrumming of the above during Super 15 and the tests thus fatr this year:-
*   Jannie ahs been a mixed bag this year - sometimes good and as many times not so good.  He tended to start strong and go weaker as the games went on and did not really last 40 minutes in any game.   Longer than that and he is on the backwards march.   A bit of a mixed bag in the June game as well.   He was very poor in the World 15 game and fairly solid in the Welsh tests, but poor against the Argentinians.   Jannie is already 32 years of age and signs are age is getting to him.   A prospect for next year is debatable - chances is he needs to be phased out.
*   Mtawarire has been mostly acceptable this year - but he had a neck injury in June and was laid off for a while.   He was poor in the World 15 game and on his return from injury was poor in the first Argentinian test as well.   The latter could be the result of the injury lay-off.  In the second Argentinian test - he came on and was solid in the scrums after the earlier disaster by the starting props.
*   Coenie Oosthuizen has not been up to standard at all this year and it is evident that his neck injury problem is having a seriously-dettrimental effect on his scrumming.   Is not in conetntion anymore.
*   Gurthro Steenkamp is not a frontline prop anymore - he is on the Toulouse bench at best and although fairly solid in the first Welsh test - he was a diaster against the Argentinians.   Definitely not test material anymore and his presence in the squad is a serious negative.
*   Frans Malherbe had a good Super 15 this year and was rated the top prop until his concussion injury - which kept him out of  rugby for nearly four months.   He was solid when he came back from injury - despite relatively little game time.   He really was the best proposition to replace Jannie - but will not play any further ruby this year.
Zeropmoron - Windpomp is gras[ping at straws  with his troy about the locks.   In essense locks obviously play a riole in scrumming - and the role is determined with relative ease.   When the props pop up - it means there is enough support from the locks in scrumming - they cannot take the pressure from up front and from the locks behind them.   When the locks are weak scrummagers and the props are as well - like happened in the World 15 game - the scrums go back fast.   What has happened in the June games are interesting in this regard.   In the World game the props and locks (Bakkiesd and Matfield) caused the collapse of th scrumming - there was no pressure by them in scrumming.   That was slightly better in the Welsj est after Bakkies was replaced in the first one.   In teh second Welsh test the scrumming really was questionable with Matfield and Flippie at lock.   Then followed the two disasters agauinst the Argentinians.  In the first test against them Jannie with De Jager behind him was better than Steenkamp and Botha supporting him.   When Botha was replaced by Etzebeth and Malherbe took over from Jannie - the scrum situation stabilized and the performance ebcame more solid.   In the second test against Argentina - in the main the front line regualarly popped up - meaning that although they had the necessary support from the locks - they could not handle the pressure.
The moral of the story is that some locks doi not provide adequate support for the props and others do - but the props cannot handle the pressure they are subjected to themselves.   
Can the problem be solved?  Sure it can be - but continuation with the geriatrics we have at present in the Tifgt 5 would never solve the problem.  The sooner they are replaced, the better it would be for proper functioning of oiur Tight 5.          


  

 
"
*   Gurthro Steenkamp is not a frontline prop anymore - he is on the Toulouse bench at best and although fairly solid in the first Welsh test - he was a diaster against the Argentinians.   Definitely not test material anymore and his presence in the squad is a serious negative."

I am still waiting for the breakdown of Steenkamp's stint at Toulouse so far.

"Zeropmoron - Windpomp is gras[ping at straws  with his troy about the locks.   In essense locks obviously play a riole in scrumming - and the role is determined with relative ease. "

As I said. You are painting the picture to suit your agenda. If what you are saying is correct, then you are discarding everything that has been said about the Argentinian scrum. Correct? Do you agree that the Argentinian scrum is the result of a synergy in the entire pack? Yes or no. Is the performance of the scrum reliant on the props or the locks or both as well as the loose forwards?

Consider this. You said that the scrums first suffered and improved when Bakkies was replaced with Lood. Remember your "expert observation" that  Jannie and Beast were "kakking out Victor and Bakkies" because of their so-called lack of support in the scrums?

Then you said that it allegedly improved due to the absence of both Bakkies and Victor and then, ho and behold, the scrums suffered without them as well and suddenly it was the props. The same Jannie du P who was kakking out Victor and Bakkies because they weren't supporting them.

Your other issue is that everybody can see that you fail to see anything wrong with your mate's fat boy, Frans. He is way fatter than Steenkamp and the proof is there to see. Hy is 'n dikgat wat na feitlik elke skrum gesukkel het om die gras en kak tussen sy tande uit te krap, man.

 How about the inward scrumming of the Argies as even John Smit noted. Any scrum no matter how good will get hammered if that is allowed. See the bigger picture cerudunce windpomp. 
Lets see how the Argiers scrum goes. It would seem to me there will be a lot of careful a  n   al ysis of their scrum and refs will be briefed. Good scrum I am sure but not as good as it appeared if illegal stuff is cut out.

 if you direct power through tge hooker doesnt that make tge props like the flanks in stabilising the ront riw? could that be interpreted as scrumming in? 

 If a tighthead cracks like Malherbe, he will fall inwards. The ref has to decide the cause. In 4 scrums two different refs have called it on Malherbe twice. There's your problem.
When Jannie was on we either stood our ground as in the last scrum or got lifted. There's your other problem.