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FORUM / RUGBY /  Barnes to ref Bok / AB Ellis Park test

Barnes to ref Bok / AB Ellis Park test

Started by oimatey37 REPLIES666 VIEWS· 25 Jun 2014, 04:30
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OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jun 2014, 04:30
#1
25 Jun 2014, 04:30#1

A little added drama to what should be a cracker of a game.


New Zealand rugby fans take a deep breath.

Controversial English referee Wayne Barnes will take the whistle for the All Blacks’ much anticipated Ellis Park rematch against the Springboks in the final round of the Rugby Championship on October 4.

The IRB announced its referee appointments for the four-nation southern hemisphere championship today, and it was interesting to say the least to see Barnes there taking charge of the likely defining match of the competition.

The Englishman earned notoriety for a peculiar performance in the All Blacks’ 2007 shock World Cup quarterfinal defeat to France in Cardiff, missing a blatant forward pass in the leadup to France’s key try late in the game and awarding no penalties in favour of the dominant New Zealanders for the entire second half.

Barnes faced a massive backlash after that match and has refused numerous requests to speak to New Zealand media since.

The Englishman did referee the All Blacks’ World Cup final rematch against France at Eden Park last year – a match that passed without major incident, and has been an assistant referee in other matches involving the New Zealanders since.

In his book, Final Word, All Blacks coach Graham Henry described feeling physically ill after reviewing video of the 2007 quarterfinal defeat match in his hotel room. He believed Barnes had missed as many as 40 penalties.

All Blacks skipper Richie McCaw went even further in his biography, The Open Side. McCaw said Barnes had not handled the pressure and shouldn’t have been assigned to the match.

‘‘I don’t blame Barnes, but I do blame the people who appointed the most inexperienced referee on the roster to a RWC quarterfinal between the hosts and the favourites. Both teams deserved a referee with experience,’’ McCaw said.

‘‘This was Barnes’ biggest game by far. On the big stage, an inexperienced referee is likely to become so afraid of making a mistake that he stops making any decisions at all. By the end of it, I thought Barnes was frozen with fear.’’

The All Blacks have well and truly moved on from Barnes’ role in their worst ever World Cup defeat, but his appointment to such a massive contest will no doubt cause some anxieties among fans.

South Africa’s Jaco Peyper will referee the All Blacks’ championship opener against the Wallabies in Sydney on August 16, France’s Romain Poite will have the whistle for the Bledisloe rematch in Auckland a week later and Frenchman Pascal Gauzere will be in charge when the New Zealanders host Argentina in Napier on September 6.

France’s Jerome Garces will have the whistle for the home clash against the Boks in Wellington on September 13, while South Africa’s Craig Joubert will control both the All Blacks’ clash against the Pumas in La Plata on September 27 and the third Bledisloe in Brisbane on October 18.

Glen Jackson is the only New Zealand referee to pick up an appointment, with the former Bay of Plenty and Chiefs No 10 to take the whistle for the Wallabies home clash against Argentina on September 13.

Expat Kiwi Steve Walsh, now based in Sydney, also gets the Argentina-South Africa clash in Salta on August 23.

Rugby Championship referee appointments:

Aug 16: Australia v New Zealand, Sydney (Jaco Peyper, SA); South Africa v Argentina, Pretoria (John Lacey, Ire).

Aug 23: NZ v Australia, Auckland (Romain Poite, Fra); Argentina v SA, Salta (Steve Walsh, Aus).

Sept 6: Australia v SA, Perth (Clancy, Ire); NZ v Argentina, Napier (Pascal Gauzere, Fra).

Sept 13: Australia v Argentina, Gold Coast (Glen Jackson, NZ); NZ v SA, Wellington (Jerome Garces, Fra).

Sept 27: SA v Australia, Cape Town (Nigel Owens, Wales); Argentina v NZ, La Plata (Craig Joubert, SA).

Oct 4: SA v NZ, Johannesburg (Wayne Barnes, Eng); Argentina v Australia (Owens).

Bledisloe Cup:

Oct 18: Australia v NZ, Brisbane (Joubert).


sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
25 Jun 2014, 05:54
#2
25 Jun 2014, 05:54#2
@oimatey:

‘‘I don’t blame Barnes, but I do blame the people who appointed 

the most inexperienced referee on the roster to a RWC 

quarterfinal between the hosts and the favourites. 

Both teams deserved a referee with experience,’’ McCaw said.

‘‘This was Barnes’ biggest game by far. 

On the big stage, an inexperienced referee is likely to 

become so afraid of making a mistake that he stops 

making any decisions at all. 

By the end of it, I thought Barnes was frozen with fear.’’re-----

-Mccaw blames the ref and the the refeering body that supported him. (An inexperienced ref is likely to make a mistake.....). I dont blame the referee for making mistakes?................

- Graeme Henry blamed the matching fixing on a "corrupt" IRB, the Ref, JFK, Elivis Presley, Aliens, Bedmuda Triangle.........

In 1995, the All Blacks blamed Suzie, Mandela and the rest of South Africa for food poisening, when they were just shitting themselves to play the Boks.


If the All Blacks had lost  the 2011 final to the French- which was close, it would have God involved in the conspiracy. he he!

--- When the Shoe is on the other foot, the pot calls the kettle black. 




JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
25 Jun 2014, 08:43
#3
25 Jun 2014, 08:43#3
I was hoping our ol' mate Brycy would come out of retirement for this one, lol 
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
25 Jun 2014, 12:30
#4
25 Jun 2014, 12:30#4
Yes I recall the incident and the wee abs were right to feel grieved and boy did they wail and squeal about the incident in an unprecendeted manor!!!
However, when compared to bryce lawrence Barnes was a real pro!!!
It was one rare ocassion when the wee abs had a taste of their own medicine which we and others sides routinely suffer when playing the wee abs. The effect of nz RAWs are huge and make a mockery of the game. Very unfortunately our refs are part of the problem and Craig Joubery gifting the abs the last WC is a typical example.
The IRB needs to get very tough with refs/TMOs who show this bias/ incompetence! This call however will never have nz support for the obvious reason they are the chief beneficiaries! Rather they will accuse the side loosing because of being reffed out of the game of being sore losers, the ref made mistakes on both sides etc etc. Tedious stuff and totally denialist much like a groupies take on matters!
Beeno long since onto nefarious nz rugby practise. Just think how England were robbed blind out of two test wins recently!! Or how the NZ TMO got it so badly wrong in the Junior Boks match. Or Romain Poite's astoundingly bad decision re Bissie. 
It's time for an offical investigation into ref bias favouring nz teams. The IRB needs to dig out all the stats. We know for example the Boks get twice as many yellows as the abs when these two sides meet (One assumes, in the absense of data,  the other type of penalties etc are in the same ratio - this is huge!!) But this type of bias needs to be measured against the other top nations as well. What awful truths will then emmerge!!
I am sure England, Oz and France will support such a call. How about it IRB. Clean up the game? The French captain after the WC said the ref (Craig) didnt want them to win. I fully agree and the You Tube video Moz produced showed how bad the bias was. 
So while the ab fans squeal blue murder about the rare encounter with a RAW against them they are full of indignation when they are called to account re RAWs for them!!!!!!!!!! Will the kbbs here ever come clean. Who will be the first to say it's wrong! Follow the example of Justin Marshall oaks and repent of your ways! The rugby world says a big NO to these goings on!! 
Beeno calling for a clean up by nz

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
25 Jun 2014, 14:07
#5
25 Jun 2014, 14:07#5

 Wayne Barnes should have never reffed that crucial WC game (Les Bleus/AB's)...an IRB mistake and yes I believe he was over nervous (it being the shadow-line of his reffing career) and let some border-line decisions go...today he is not a bad ref at all...I prefer him to Peyper...I believe Craig also did this in 2011 final...but it's better that way than the overzealous whistle blower and card freak...just as well Bryce Lawrence has gone....could you imagine in this new card frenzy...SA could have been down to 10 men rugby...lolz. Incidentally 7's...as a matter of interest...are cards issued?...no players left on field...haha.

 

This next world cup could be ruined by sending players off...sure dirty play must be punished and the individual concerned heavily fined and punished where it hurts most but the other players in the team also obviously are punished as well...this can get out of hand...13 players (I don't think it will be long before we see 12 players)...that's ridiculous...imagine a boxer being penalised with a foul...hand tired behind his back...yes I'm being ridiculous and mocking but this thing is getting out of hand...does anybody want to take a guess how many cards will be issued in the 2015 WC tournament?

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
25 Jun 2014, 14:41
#6
25 Jun 2014, 14:41#6
 I rarely blame refs for being dodgy { although theres no explamation as to why Barnes was demoted 2 years ago ?] ,when I saw Barnes reffing the ABS s wabblies at suncorp up close I could see he was letting the aussies get away with heaps at the breakdown and could see Genias face light up when he realised .2007 , if the ABS were good enough they would have won .He seems to have improved and I have no beef with the last time he reffed the ABS.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Jun 2014, 19:32
#7
25 Jun 2014, 19:32#7
barnes isnt the same ref he was back in 07, ive got no problem with him at all.

in fact ive got no problem with any refs, of course u have incompetent monsters like poite and that argy ref who i cant remember, but all in all there are heaps of world class refs around

top 5 refs
1 c joubert
2 s walsh
3 n owens
4 w barnes
5 c pollock/j peyper

and also south africans dont have the right to accuse anyone in the freaking world in any sport about blaming the refereee, i can guranteee that in the 2014 spXv season alone u would find over ahundred different comments about hard done by the saffa teams were.

saffas accusing others of playing the blame the ref game, is like saffas accusing others of cheating, especially with all the drug cheating going on,
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jun 2014, 20:23
#8
25 Jun 2014, 20:23#8
In the middle of Kaplan's autobiography and its very interesting to see things from his perspective as a ref. He talks frequently of his interaction with other refs (Walsh, Barnes, Joubert etc) so you get to learn about them and talks in detail about some of the things he has to deal with as a ref (travel, pressure, player interaction) as well as some of the big career defining decisions he has made on the field.  He reckons his decision to penalize the AB's in the dying minutes of the deciding game of the Bledisloe Cup in 2002 (I think it was 2002) is what cemented his spot as an international ref because everyone realized he would make the tough call.
A lot of refs come across sometimes as arrogant, self-absorbed but it honestly takes that kind of person to have the confidence of opinion and immunity to manipulation to remain fair and be willing to make the calls when they should be made regardless of the implications.
Kaplan loved big scoring games, a real fan of the game and the players themselves and says he always tried to promote a free-flowing game by getting the players to trust his motives.
Very good read. Beeno - a must read for you, just for the sake of some empathy mate 

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
25 Jun 2014, 20:41
#9
25 Jun 2014, 20:41#9
 JK was an outstanding ref,in his early days...always played the advantage ruling and games used to flow and created attractive rugby.

In his latter years, I got the feeling that something was missing, probably more conservative, slower but still a good ref. A lot of spectators didn,t understand his approach although I believe he was extremely popular with players...he was no softy however and was very firm.

One of the greatest refs of our times and would rate him perhaps the best with Andre Watson.

I think we have Kaplans book in our local library and Oimatey I take your word for it...I'm interested to read it because I respect his views...and Beeno should too.
MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Jun 2014, 21:11
#10
25 Jun 2014, 21:11#10
@oimatey,

would like to read that book, whats the book called??? will try and amazon it ASAP.

the beldisloe decider that ur talking about was in 2000 and i remember it well.

it was also IMO kapalns worst game ever. u wanna see some bullshit reffing, then check out that test match from the 80th minute onwards,,,

79:50 All Blacks knock the ball on just outside the wallabies 22 - scrum awarded to the wallabies

80:55 wallabies cant release ball and All Blacks awrded scrum 5 meters from wallabies try line
at this point kaplan indicates to players that theres two minutes to go, even though the clock at stadium and on TV has been dead on accurate

82:18 All Blacks kick ball in corner for a try but ball goes over dead ball line, 22 drop out from the wallabies

82:40 wallabies take a quick touch from 22 and are tackled over the touch line 8 meters from the 22. All Blavks throw in

83:15 wallabies kick the ball down field and it bounces out 5 meters from the All Blacks 22 after mark cockhead hammet loses us the lineout with a shit throw.
at this point it is already 30secs past the two minutes which kaplan indicated which was unjustifid in the first place, cos it was really 3:15 past the 80min mark.

84:07 on the back of another useless mark cockhead hammet throw, we lose the ball to the wallabies and after several phases, a wallaby player kicks the ball forward at the breakdown and the All Blacks get penlaised for it.

eales kicks the penalty and wallabies win 24-23.

it was bad enough that kaplan adds 4 minutes of overtime in favour of the wallabies, but to say theres two minutes remianing and then ignoring his own comments to the players until the wallabies are awrded a dubious penalty in kickable poistion???
somethings not quite right.

and the sad thing is i didnt even exaggerate the situatuion, it happened as is.

kaplans lucky his refffing career didnt end right then and there.
btu like most saffa refs, kaplans career did continue and other then that blunder, he had a fantastic career IMO.

lucky he wasnt reffing against a saffa team with such obvious favouritism, cos he would ahve been murdered.

and if u want to know why these events are as well known as fabricated events like lawrence during the quarter finals??? well im sure u already know but in case u dont, IMO unlike the saffas and their Boks, kiwis know that its only a matter of games before we bounce back top our rightful place as the rugby top dogs, saffas on the other hand dont share the same level of faith and rightly so.
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
25 Jun 2014, 21:44
#11
25 Jun 2014, 21:44#11
Yep - its on Amazon. I got the Kindle version for $10.
http://www.amazon.com/Call-It-Like-Is-Jonathan-ebook/dp/B00KIPGR7W

Man, you remember that game in detail. He has a lengthy section in his book on that whole sequence and seems to maintain that he was checking his watch the whole time and there were seconds left before that lineout. If I remember when he said there were 2 minutes it was actually 2:45 on his watch . Also - I believe he says the final penalty was for an obvious off-sides
But you can read it for yourself

MD
Monkey D LuffyPro6,277 posts
25 Jun 2014, 22:09
#12
25 Jun 2014, 22:09#12
@oimatey,

i have every All Black test on my external rugby hardrive back to 1999, am trying to find footage from further back, but very hard to locate a copy and even then a good quality copy which from 2002 backwards is hard to find.

even so, i have blogged on that incident a number times on various forums, i even posted it back here when this site was called rucking flanker.

"He has a lengthy section in his book on that whole sequence and seems to maintain that he was checking his watch the whole time and there were seconds left before that lineout. If I remember when he said there were 2 minutes it was actually 2:45 on his watch"
just watched that painful moment again (thanks for that ) and when kaplan tells the players two minutes, the clock on TV reads 81:07 seconds exactly.
when australia kick the ball out and the touch judge puts up his flag, its exactly 83:13.
even by kaplans own 2 minutes, that was the end of play.

will try to find footage of this incident online, but i know its difficult, will upload my clip to utube if i have to though.

the point is though, we are arguing about offenses which the footage ive just watched again prove kaplans recount of that incident to be false, but then theres still the underlining fact that it all happened well over 4minutes past overtime, which was the first of many major blunders all of which aided one team, the wallabies.

IMO kapalan was just a noob at the time and he couldnt properly handle such a high level game, but he did turn out to be a great ref after that.
he was one of my favourites until joubert and walsh came along.
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
25 Jun 2014, 22:33
#13
25 Jun 2014, 22:33#13

Time to push the re-set button, I think we should just do away with refs entirely.

DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
25 Jun 2014, 22:55
#14
25 Jun 2014, 22:55#14
 The ref is the keeper of the time. Not the stadium or TV clock, especially way back in 2000. The reason AB supporters complain less about reffs, is they have less reason to. Wait till the shoe is on the other foot and you lot are even more bitter.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
26 Jun 2014, 00:05
#15
26 Jun 2014, 00:05#15
DbDraad, my point exactly. The laws of the game in recent years have favored a more open game which often works well for the ABS, but in world cups this is often not the case. It becomes physical contests with less space. 
Traditionally rugby is about bashing it up first in the forwards and only then going wide. It is about winning the forward battle first, so big carrying forwards is the way to go. 
The All Blacks approach especially with more pacific island descendants in the team is to have big backline players that are skillful, and just go wide of first phase possession, or kick for position and wait to counter attack or a poor return kick from the opposition.
The ABS have smaller mobile forwards that are not great as carriers and enforcers. but they are mobile around the pitch. These small mobile forwards helps at the rucks to retain possession, or get turn overs. 
So with the big backline players with good passing skills, it works to have small mobile forwards who are fetchers, and not strong ball carriers to dominate the advantage line. The backs can just keep running from side to side until an overlap happens, a mismatch like against a prop or an offload in the tackle by a smaller opposition backline player.
We hear allot about SA fans complaining, but when the All Blacks lose they are worse- just in recent years this has been less frequently so they perceive that they are not as bad as complaining about the referee.
If we are to believe the All Black Fans- most of the Springbok wins during pre-apartheid were due to the ref.....(Although SA refs are known as good quality, but this only happened the day that Apartheid ended).
For me the big change is that the current laws with more time played on the pitch, and more rucks is why the All Blacks are doing well.The contentious area is the ruck and it is this where the All Blacks are seen to play in somewhat of a "grey area". The rucks are the main source of frustration for rugby fans, especially when the opposition seem to be getting away with more- like less yellow cards ratio to penatlies.
The referees are not perfect in their application of the law, but the best they can do is be consistent- which is often not the case with referees. 
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
26 Jun 2014, 01:10
#16
26 Jun 2014, 01:10#16
 @sharkbok

"We hear allot about SA fans complaining, but when the All Blacks lose they are worse-"

If we consider this forum as a sample of what happens outside it, that's totally false. No way, man, no way.
Here we have to bear day in day out the saffas' complaint s about the refs, I'm fed up with reading about bent refs, world conspiracies, irb's implication, etc, etc, etc.
And they not only complain about the refs at test level, they complain the same way at Super Rugby level. Every time a SA team lose we have to read the same old story.
They go still further and they not only complain when a SA team lose but also when a NZ team win. This, for example, is something kiwis don't use to do, they don't complain when a SA team win.
And as result of all this every day of the year we have saffas' complaints about the refs which ends up beeing really annoying
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
26 Jun 2014, 01:46
#17
26 Jun 2014, 01:46#17
 Sas ,subscribe to a guy on you tube called "Da undaground " I have been watching complete games from the 60s to the present on his channel ,the scrums alone from the 60s-early 70s are a revelation they seem to form organically in seconds with few re-starts .And the names ! Meads etc ,brilliant !I wonder how our saffa friends would react if say their favourite Kiwi ref came out of retirement for this game ?Most Kiwis I know are over the 95 and 2007 RWC and rightfully so , we werent good enough end of story .
SH
ShezzaPro2,471 posts
26 Jun 2014, 02:16
#18
26 Jun 2014, 02:16#18
 Typical arrogant Kiwi's thinking their above blaming the ref, you do it just as much as any nationality except you have the arrogance and audacity to call others on it. 
Constructive criticism of refs shouldn't be outlawed otherwise they will never improve / will make mistakes often. 
WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
26 Jun 2014, 08:13
#19
26 Jun 2014, 08:13#19
 Hmm...so not blaming the ref is arrogant ?
JW
Just_winCaptain18,570 posts
26 Jun 2014, 10:00
#20
26 Jun 2014, 10:00#20
It's easier to blame the ref, or mummy & daddy than facing up to your own teams problems. That's my explanation for the SA bloggers continual whining.
The fact is teams have to be good enough to overcome refs mistakes as the do happen. Sometimes we can't & our team loses. That's when you have to take it on the chin & move on. 
DB
DbDraadCaptain26,388 posts
26 Jun 2014, 11:47
#21
26 Jun 2014, 11:47#21
 There's a difference in blaming a ref for a loss and complaining about poor refereeing. Who are the Saffer Bloggers on here blaming referees for losses? Pot, kettle black...BS...ref complaints are universal and as old as the game itself. Clearly there will be bad calls effecting the outcome of games, but that's just the way it is, the same as lucky bounces and stupid errors.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2014, 12:13
#22
26 Jun 2014, 12:13#22
The heat must be put on bent refs. How many trimes have we heard the nz TV commentators saying a bad decision has happened against an opposition side. For example crucial call made against England in the first two tests. Most definitely refs can and MUST be blamed for losses when their errors have resulted in the loss
What is even worse is when there is a trend of favouring one side. No side in the world gets more consistently favoured treatment than nz. Its been the subject of widespread comment. Why are refs favouring nz. A very valid question 
We will certainly complain against this rubbish. Yellow cards, penalties etc all can effect the scoreboard. Refs can decide the outcome of games by their rotten decisions. Cheating TMOs need to be held accountable and where it is blatant get the boot.Ditto refs. 
Why am I not suprised the kiwis dont like this subject and want it swept under the carpet. That bryce lawrence could have been made the nz ref of the year says it all.
Sorry kiwis but you need to clean up your act. 
End of story

WA
WardadPro6,663 posts
26 Jun 2014, 12:47
#23
26 Jun 2014, 12:47#23
 Dbdraad see below [sic]
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2014, 13:07
#24
26 Jun 2014, 13:07#24
 Enough about bent refs until the inevitable next time. 
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
26 Jun 2014, 13:15
#25
26 Jun 2014, 13:15#25
 @Beeno. You are the main culprit with this. You have been going on about referees for years now. You don't even know the laws of the game, and that has been proven over and over. I doubt if you have ever put in an effort to even ask somebody, let alone trying to find out yourself, where you can download the laws. All you have to do is go to the IRB site and download it and then flippin read it. To make sure you keep informed, you can also make sure that you revisit the clarifications as well.

You are not the only one, though. There are many others. On this forum, and elsewhere. I have said,  on many occasions, that the commentators are probably the worst because they sometimes let go with the biggest load of crap that you can think of. Most of the kiwi commentators and Bob Skinstadt and Joel Stransky are the worst. I recall the argument when a kiwi commentator tried to convince everybody that Bismarck was offside when he tackled Carter, last year. Some, probably most, of the kiwis on here were as convinced that he was offside and that it was an illegal tackle. The only commentator who got both things right was Justin Marshall, which is why all the kiwis were convinced that the ref was correct. No kiwi believe anything that Marshall says because he calls it as it is.

In any case, I agree with Draad. Refs can make bad calls, but that is the nature of the game. I always maintain that players make, by far, more mistakes in every game than what the refs make. I do not believe that refs, in general, go on the field with the clear intention to cheat. No test referee, who is a cheat, would ever make it to the international arena in  any case.

Apart from the above:

Here we have to bear day in day out the saffas' complaints about the refs, I'm fed up with reading about bent refs, world conspiracies, irb's implication, etc, etc, etc.
And they not only complain about the refs at test level, they complain the same way at Super Rugby level.
Every time a SA team lose we have to read the same old story.
They go still further and they not only complain when a SA team lose but also when a NZ team win. This, for example, is something kiwis don't use to do, they don't complain when a SA team win.
And as result of all this every day of the year we have saffas' complaints about the refs which ends up beeing really annoying


I am fed up with hearing, day in and day out, how stupid, useless, etc Saffas are. Mate, FIFO.
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2014, 13:53
#26
26 Jun 2014, 13:53#26
 windpomp, please oaks could youtry and articluate your "thoughts" in amore coherrent fashion rather than these long winded ramblings.Thanks
Windpomp, if you dont like my take on refs tahts yiour problem. I do know howver that teh kiwi commentators and many other fans and journalsits mak exactly the same point.
You do though have a high regard re Justin marshall - as do I (the guy is a great!). You say he gets it right. Now ou windpomp lets us reaon together. When I complain against bent decsion which keep going the abs way guess who is agreeing with me. So is his fellow nz commentator. So are journalists etc etc.
Waht is the kbbs resppnse. Justin Marshall is a complete twit etc. I really wish this issue re refs would die but the IRB is not doing enough to weed this rubbish out.
As I said I would love to see data of major rugby playing nations playing against nz and see how the decisions were made and where in the field they were made etc. IE a comprehensive analysis under the auspices of a full blown commission. 
We have had twice as many yellows awarded against us when playing Nz - th foreign jurnalist asks are we really so much worse discipliend than the abs and then asks why refs favour the abs. question is then taken up by UK journalist. Seriously think of the effect of that on the outcome of matches. If there is bias in one area it most likely is effecting all areas. That becomes hugely significant.
Look at the yellows against England and the yellow the abs didn't get. England lost a test by a point which was decided by a yellow England never deserved - p er Justin Marshall and his co commentator.  
If the countries playing nz kicked up a big fuss when nz receive RAWs this whole thing would change. But little cowboys dont cry. Men however stand up and say NO. Let's fix this.  Unfortunately there are too many little ickle cowboys!
I will drop this issue once things improve.  So until the inevitable next time!!
BE
becsPro4,378 posts
26 Jun 2014, 14:01
#27
26 Jun 2014, 14:01#27
 Ceradyne.......I will state now that I have never said South Africans ( I have NEVER in my life referred to them as that term you used then ) are stupid, useless etc etc.I have met many and, as you know, had relationships with more than one.
Regardless of the fact that I have been treated less than well by one or two of them, and one of them really was horrendously vile in his actions, by and large I have had the best of times and class some South Africans amongst the best of my friends.
I suppose you could say I have had the best of times and worst of times, to misquote my favourite book.......but those best times really have been fantastic  

And I find you are all no different from anyone else.....you just have better accents  


As for Ref's, they make mistakes like the rest of us. Some make more than others.Some are abysmal and the standard these days needs sorting out, they are supposed to be professional.

But McCaw's book was a disgrace and he should have been up on a charge of bringing the game into disrepute. Any Coach would have been if they had said the same things, they are regularly fined and stood down from matches. Why wasn't he punished ? It was mentioned quite a lot in the Press/Rugby circles.Oh, I know, because he is Richie McCaw. Right ? Very poor show, I am afraid.

CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
26 Jun 2014, 14:19
#28
26 Jun 2014, 14:19#28
 Struck a nerve Becs? Calm down. I have not referred to you. In fact, I have not referred to anyone in particular but since you feel so threatened by what I said, I was actually referring to some of our NZ friends on here. If you look closely, you will see that I addressed something that one person in particular has said, and I was actually speaking to him in particular but also meant it in a broader sense. It is no secret that they have come here after their own site was closed down and I have no issue. They are more than welcome and I enjoy their stuff and their arguments. I just do not like the way that some of them are always talking down on the South Africans.

Feeling better now?
BE
Beeno1Captain40,032 posts
26 Jun 2014, 14:25
#29
26 Jun 2014, 14:25#29
 Windpomp any self respecting kiwi will at times talk down saffas - they ecertainly dont do it all the time in any case. It's all part of the fun.Yes though I agree the kbbs are great fun and this has become their board as much as ours. Any good plot must have a villain and the kbbs fulfill their role to a tee! 
AB
ABasquefanPro2,549 posts
27 Jun 2014, 13:25
#30
27 Jun 2014, 13:25#30
 @ceradyne,

"I am fed up with hearing, day in and day out, how stupid, useless, etc Saffas are. Mate, FIFO."

your comment is completely out of place. Where did I write something even similar to this? You won't find it nor in this thread nor in any other thread because I have never insulted nobody in this site. Never.
If you consider that criticizing somebody (saffas in this case) is the same as insulting them, it's your own problem.

by the way WTF means FIFO?
CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Jun 2014, 02:20
#31
28 Jun 2014, 02:20#31
 @ABesguefan. You have the same problem as Becs. She immediately thought that I could have been on her case as well. You have said, to no one in particular, that you are sick of this that and the other from South Africans. You did not mention me in particular.

I said, to no  one in particular,  that I am fed-up about things that are said about South Africans.

What I did say to you in particular, because of your feelings towards ,"Saffas", was to FIFO. It means Fit in or Fuck Off, and I am sorry to say that that is exactly my view. You are, IMO, a guest on an SA website and if you don't like it here, the choice is yours. Note that I am not chasing you away. I am giving you a choice. Accept what Saffas have to say, or leave. The choice is yours. Makes no difference to me whatever you choose.
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
28 Jun 2014, 03:20
#32
28 Jun 2014, 03:20#32
This website is a commercial venture and not a local bingo club, so under all circumstances it is an international website- aside from racism, nationalism, or other supremacist outlooks to all nations including South Africans, etc. 
The banter between countries is mostly good fun. Occasionally we can overstep the mark and piss each other off"""- remember the Bismaark tackle on Carter?
Otherwise perhaps we should just be individual posters, not a representative or mis-representative from a certain country etc. In this context, would any of our countries appoint any of us as ambassadors ?



CE
CeradynePro9,374 posts
28 Jun 2014, 03:52
#33
28 Jun 2014, 03:52#33
This is the first time that I have heard that it was Saffas that were responsible for the site being closed down. We were always led to believe that it was kiwi posters.

There was no attack on South Africans in general, you say. Yet you say that in teh same sentence that you say: "He said he gets sick and tired of hearing day in and day out about SAFFAS COMPLAINING about bent refs, IRB conspiracies etc,.....". Now, I do not see him mentioning any specific individuals. Do  you? That, to me, look very much like a statement aimed at South Africans in general.
MO
moolaaPro2,380 posts
28 Jun 2014, 04:08
#34
28 Jun 2014, 04:08#34
 Attention Hasbeeno; SA players get more yellow/red cards than the ABs solely because they get involved in more foul play. Accept that until they tidy their act up this is going to continue!The difference is that even when the ABs do get yellow cards, they still tend to win so there is no whingeing from us. Witness Ellis Park match 2013 as a perfect example!
sharkbok
sharkbokCaptain23,295 posts
28 Jun 2014, 05:27
#35
28 Jun 2014, 05:27#35
 
OI
oimateyPro1,870 posts
28 Jun 2014, 05:45
#36
28 Jun 2014, 05:45#36
DE
DennyCaptain12,893 posts
28 Jun 2014, 09:53
#37
28 Jun 2014, 09:53#37

 "The banter between countries is mostly good fun."

 

 

It shoud never be anything else.

GE
generaltitPro3,164 posts
28 Jun 2014, 12:51
#38
28 Jun 2014, 12:51#38
Yup the rugby's on...looks like the Canes are on a mission but the Saders will come back in the second half I'm sure.

PS Oimatey...yes we must all be friends...the best way

http://youtu.be/Vg5cwSBnyQU


— END OF THREAD —

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