JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 May 2014, 22:40#1
With the exodus of players from the South to the North is it possible to pick a South African team of substance solely on overseas-based players? The numbers are there, with 49 Springboks plying their trade overseas and only 48 in Super Rugby, there is clearly some star quality available. But what of the caliber of these players? Many of them find a comfortable retirement package overseas to play out there days, others get fed up with the systems in the southern hemisphere and look to make a name in the North. So, could you feasibly create a world-beating team from those who no longer have their feet on home soil? I am going to give it a go and play selector - my pool for the South Africans is massive! The following selection is of South Africans playing in the English Premiership, Pro12, French top 14 and the Japanese Top League, these players, not all of them Springboks, are those that I deem noteworthy. Loose head props:JC Janse van Rensburg, Heinke van der merwe, Guthro Steenkamp, Schalk Ferreira. Hookers:Chiliboy Ralepelle, Schalk Brits, Craig Burden. Tighthead Props:BJ Botha, WP Nel, Jacobie Adriaanse, Brian Mujati. Locks: Bakkies Botha , Danie Roussow, Andries Bekker, Alister Hargreves, Johan Snyman, Jandre Marais, Gerhard Mostert, Quinn Roux, Juandre Kruger. Flanks:Juan Smith, Francois Louw, Nick Koster, Don Armand, Ernst Joubert, CJ Stander, Cornell du Preez, Jaques Cronje. No.8s:Ashley Johnson, Gerrit-Jan van Velze, Josh Strauss, Pedrie Wannenburg, Joe van Niekerk, Shaun Sowerby. Scrumhalfs:Michael Classens, Fourie du Preez, Ruan Pienaar, Neil de Kock, Heini Adams, Rory Kockett, Dewaldt Duvenage, Jano Vermark. Flyhalf:Morne Steyn. Centres:Andries Strauss, Robert Ebersohn, Wynand Olivier, Jacque Fourie, Meyer Bosman. Wings:Bryan Habana, Gerhard van den Heever, Wandile Mjekevu, Gio Aplon. Fullbacks:Zane Kirchner, Hennie Daniller, Joe Pietersen. In South Africa there is no set quota for picking overseas players for the Springboks - so technically any of these players could make it. It is fair to say however, that the team that Heyneke Meyer does pick will be predominately South African based players, I doubt anyone is expecting a shock inclusion of Ashley Johnson over Willem Alberts My selection for the Overseas Boks XV is based mainly on reputation and star quality with aspects of form playing only a minor role.(a lot like Meyer) Darryn Pollock's Overseas Bok XV: 1 Guthro Steenkamp, 2 Schalk Brits, 3 BJ Botha, 4 Bakkies Botha, 5 Andries Bekker, 6 Francois Louw, 7 Juan Smith, 8 Joe van Niekerk, 9 Fourie du Preez, 10 Morne Steyn (a simple choice), 11 Bryan Habana, 12 Wynand Olivier, 13 Jacque Fourie, 14 Gio Aplon, 15 Joe Pietersen. In my forwards I have selected a strong scrummaging front row with the flair and energy of Brits to counter the big men. My second row is pure size and power. The loose forwards are well balanced if not a little heavy on the ball-carrying side The back line is also very direct and hard running with a little flair coming from Gio Aplon and my traditional uncapped player - Joe Pietersen. As I look over my selection it is clear this team is one nostalgia - The youngest player being Francois Louw at 28, the rest are all over 30. However this is not a team that would struggle against some international nations. This speaks of the types of players that are leaving South Africa's shores, they are mostly players who have served their time at a high level such as the Springboks or at Super Rugby and are perhaps looking for a sedate way of life with a fat pay cheque - can you blame them?
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 May 2014, 22:45#2
What many SA posters have been saying Ad nauseam, lol But as the article concludes most are past their sell by date (sorry beeno you just lost the argument) .
30 May 2014, 22:46#3
Dare say that team c ould win the 6N and give a "domestic" Bok team a serious run for their money.
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
30 May 2014, 23:05#4
Quite so Oimatey. JW you are obviously wanting to make yourself useful which is a meritorious desire. You could achieve your desired goal by preparing a detailed list of all Saffa players playing overseas. I read somewhere that there were over 300. We can then see how much these players would benefit the Boks. However not only that but how much they would strengthen the SA Supeer 15 sides.
You getting a glimmer JW. Do you realise how thin the ice is you are skating on. Hahahahhahahahaha
One gasps at how much talent this country produces!!!!
Thanks for your efforts JW but is a job half done.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
30 May 2014, 23:48#5
Beeno writes: "I read somewhere that there were over 300."
You were the one who wrote this statement on many a thread Beeno, lol. Other posters challenged you & our much esteemed Rooi proved you wrong,
Beeno caught in the act of double counting
Evidence provided by Rooi
BObobbok...
Captain10,129 posts
BObobbok...Captain10,129 posts
31 May 2014, 00:28#6
Some fine players there but a helluva lot of hasbeens or wannabees ......... I go along with the NZ model that reward players who stay behind & continue to grow their game where it matters most ......... to hell with the French/Japs & their mercenary leagues.
CLclevermike
Coach57,555 posts
CLclevermikeCoach57,555 posts
31 May 2014, 00:57#7
Blobbok
I agree with you whole-heartedly. If they know they would not qualify to play for the Springboks some would have not left.
The club rugby in the NH is not as strenuous as for instance Super 15 is - and most players pick up really nasty habits. They do not train as hard as they should - put on weight - lose speed. In the end it is detrimental to select players whose performances have not been properly assessed during the previous six months.
If you analyse the above list you would find that player younger than 30 is a small minority and most are past their prime in any event.
One gets the impression that some players leave to play "softer rugby" in the insurance that they will be selected for the Springboks on reputation come hell or high water.
So if they want to represent the country - then they should stay here and fight for their places in the team. In any event the NH clubs play a different style of rugby and that means that the integration of both BH players abd locals are very difficult to achieve - so the team is in fact weakened as a result.
The players to my mind have a free choice - go and you lose your candidacy for the Springbok team.
31 May 2014, 04:19#8
NZ may have lost a few decent players but in the long run sticking to selecting those who stay has paid off .At test level the difference may come down to who values that black/green or yellow jersey more ,the mercenary or the guy who puts his country first and foremost .I still hate seeing SH talent plundered for fat arsed NH clubs especially when its young up and coming blokes ,France it seems doesnt place much store in developing home grown stocks the way we do .I suppose its easier just to open the wallet .I would love to see ALL our best in the S15 be they from SA ,NZ or Oz .
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 10:17#9
NZ's currency is much stronger than ours and therefore the emptation is far less.
With the Rand at approx 17.50 to the pound they are going to go if they appreciate the value of money and ythe uncertainty of a professional rugby players career.Only picking local players would be shooting ourselves in the foot and is simply a kneejerk reaction.
Those players listed by Justwin would make a huge difference if back here. However there are many, many more.
JW get busy please.
JWJust_win
Captain18,570 posts
JWJust_winCaptain18,570 posts
31 May 2014, 10:29#10
Rooi: we are counting on you to provide some stats - & more importantly some well balanced reasoning - to Beeno. Surely he is not beyond hope?
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 11:34#11
Hahahhahahaha calling on ou rooitwit for "balanced reasoning" is act of desparation!!
He believes the universe created itself out of nothing using ther laws of gravity. Bwahahahahhahahahahahaha
Fact is we would be very able to filed 10 Super 15 sides barring players going overseas.End of story.
Take out the Islanders playing in nz and would nz be able to field 3?
Are the kbbs getting any perspective I wonder!
31 May 2014, 12:09#12
Kiwis are PI people dumb arse , and virtually all those you refer to as "islanders " are Kiwis ,its like saying all Afrikaners are Dutch .If your born in NZ or have citizenship your a Kiwi despite what you think dim bulb .
BEBeeno1
Captain40,032 posts
BEBeeno1Captain40,032 posts
31 May 2014, 12:37#13
warped DUD beleive it or not Samoa, Fiji and Tonga are called Pacific Islanders (Islanders for short) and they are not a part of NZ. I am clearly referring to them.
Ou warped DUD doesn't seem to know where he is!